Cadam or anyone else who uses MFW with a more classical bent...

[LauraJ]

I understand that MFW uses both Classical and Charlotte Mason in their curriculum. I have heard that Cadam uses MFW and tweeks it to make it more classical than it already is. I really like what I see about the program but would like to add in more classical. Can you tell me how you make it more classical??? I have tried making searches for this and can't seem to find anything....

 

I have always known about MFW for many years now but it wasn't until Saturday at our State Convention that it caught my notice. It seems to have everything that I have been wanting for my family. I would like to make this work and would appreciate your advice.

 

Thank you!

[HollyBee]

:lurk5:

[Debbie in IL]

:lurk5:

[dhudson]

I know Christina has a more classical approach to MFW, as well, but this is what I do to make MFW more classical. We teach a Latin program as well as another foreign language. We use a more classical approach to grammar than MFW recommends. I also probably do more narration with younger children than MFW generally recommends but overall MFW is very classical minded.

 

During K, 1st, and 2nd (ADV) MFW is more CM in nature than Classical but I just added more grammar and more books (mostly from the book basket) to make it our "first history cycle". It's a general overview but it seemed to fit my kids ages well and then we went into the 5 year cycle with MFW. I also had all of my kids do ADV before folding them into my oldest's history cycle.

 

I love MFW overall. I love it's Biblical focus, I love that it forces me to be more hands-on with projects and crafts, I love that art and music are combined with the history cycle to give us a more complete picture of the culture of the times, I love that it combines SOTW when appropriate. Any tweaks I make are totally worth it to me to make it more classical.

[Donna A.]

Well, since Cadam hasn't responded yet.... :D

 

I know that she does Latin. And I don't know whether she did it this year, but in the past she's done MFW in sort of an "LCC way" by turning the TM on its side and doing all of science on one day, all of geography on one day, and so on.

[LauraJ]

Thank you! I have already decided to add Latin and we already do grammar and all our other subjects classically. We also have a strong memory work program. It seems like I wouldn't need to "change" anything within MFW then right?? Doesn't the book basket give us more opportunities to beef it up??

[Kidlit]

I looked over MFW at a conference this weekend and was intrigued. I've had some of the same questions, though, about how to make it truly classical. I'm :lurk5:!

[dhudson]

The book basket gives plenty of opportunity to choose how light or deep you want to go. I've never seen MFW as being "light" we just have three kids who also love to read so the Book basket gives us that freedom. My children have always used MFW and we've never had a problem with making it swing more to the classical end. (They also score very well in standardized tests) Many weeks we switch the TM around by making two days all history and then two days science and art but that's more prefrence than anything else.

 

Did I answer your questions? Let me know if I can help further.

[ssexton]

I have been thinking along these same lines lately. I just received my new edition of WTM and I love both it and MFW! In the logic stage, SWB gives lots of recommendations for incorporating analysis and writing into history studies. Here is what I am thinking for my rising 5th grader (logic stage). Of course, I have not actually done any of this yet, so whether or not it will actually work is another question! :)

 

1. Use the Usborne Ancient and Medieval books for our list of detailed sentences.

 

2. Use MFW notebook assignments as opportunities to write summaries of things read. We will pay particular attention to biographies.

 

3. Pick the most interesting supplemental material from the book basket to outline per SWB recommendations.

 

We will also do timeline and mapping activities. Along with Latin studies and traditional grammar, I think that gets us pretty close to where we want to be. Hopefully.

 

Shannon

[Donna A.]

I have been thinking along these same lines lately. I just received my new edition of WTM and I love both it and MFW! In the logic stage, SWB gives lots of recommendations for incorporating analysis and writing into history studies. Here is what I am thinking for my rising 5th grader (logic stage). Of course, I have not actually done any of this yet, so whether or not it will actually work is another question! :)

 

1. Use the Usborne Ancient and Medieval books for our list of detailed sentences.

 

2. Use MFW notebook assignments as opportunities to write summaries of things read. We will pay particular attention to biographies.

 

3. Pick the most interesting supplemental material from the book basket to outline per SWB recommendations.

 

We will also do timeline and mapping activities. Along with Latin studies and traditional grammar, I think that gets us pretty close to where we want to be. Hopefully.

 

Shannon

 

Oops, editing because I see that RTR is your plan for NEXT fall! ;o) Anyhow....

 

Most of the things on your list are already included in MFW. The timeline, mapwork, and notebooking are a big part of it. Those Usborne books are part of it. And when you get to 1850-Modern, the outlining is included, too.

 

I've done #2 quite a bit with my oldest, in addition to what's scheduled in MFW.

 

There's a lot classical lit titles on the Book Basket list to choose from.

[Donna A.]

Thank you! I have already decided to add Latin and we already do grammar and all our other subjects classically. We also have a strong memory work program. It seems like I wouldn't need to "change" anything within MFW then right?? Doesn't the book basket give us more opportunities to beef it up??

 

Nope! Not unless you just wanted to change what days you do what, or something else that's a preference issue. There's plenty of flexibility built into MFW to beef it up or pare it down, whatever your needs may be. And as life happens, we all know that we could use some beefing up OR paring down within the same year! ;)

 

The book basket is very full of a wide range of choices. :thumbup1:

[LauraJ]

Thank you so much for all of your help. I am feeling more and more confident that MFW is the curriculum for us and that I can do it classically as well. I am looking at "Exploration to 1850." How much time a day does it take to do everything?? Including a few books from the book basket??

 

Thanks again!

[ssexton]

Most of the things on your list are already included in MFW. The timeline, mapwork, and notebooking are a big part of it. Those Usborne books are part of it. And when you get to 1850-Modern, the outlining is included, too.

 

I've done #2 quite a bit with my oldest, in addition to what's scheduled in MFW.

 

There's a lot classical lit titles on the Book Basket list to choose from.

 

You know, Donna, I picked MFW before getting my hands on the newest WTM. I loved how it scheduled everything for me, including memory work, science, art and music studies. But, after looking at it in light of WTM, I'm just thrilled to see how well it dovetails with WTM! I just needed to give some thought to adding in the classical writing/outlining for RtR. I really can't wait to get to 1850-Modern with the outlining already included!

[Donna A.]

Thank you so much for all of your help. I am feeling more and more confident that MFW is the curriculum for us and that I can do it classically as well. I am looking at "Exploration to 1850." How much time a day does it take to do everything?? Including a few books from the book basket??

 

Thanks again!

 

This can vary depending on the ages of your children, how many interruptions you get, etc. It also depends on what you're doing for LA and math, but *typically*, about 4 hours for everything except possibly an enrichment subject later on. (Maybe less with your kids' ages.) Your oldest probably doesn't take more than a half hour or so for math, right? If that's the case, you should be finished by noon if you start at 8:00'ish.

 

Some people like to follow the grid (lesson plans) as written and just go from top to bottom in order. Other like to use the suggested schedule that's shown in the front of the manual, with times. (That's the author's schedule for her own family.) Still others rearrange it completely differently.

 

I will note here that they wouldn't usually recommend EX1850 for a family with the oldest child only in 3rd grade. For families with your age group, they would recommend the lighter, one-year overview of American history, "Adventures". However, given that you'd be coming from TOG, I'm sure you're looking for something more than what's in Adventures. ;)

 

That said, you probably wouldn't want to use the book Building a City on a Hill, for example, but read it yourself instead. This book would normally be used with older children. Another book that's used in both Adventures and EX1850 is Exploring American History. There's more reading assigned from this book in EX1850 than there was in Adventures. But there's a section at the front of the manual that addresses teaching to 2nd and 3rd graders, so you'll want to read that before you get started and decide how you want to handle it.

 

Now obviously, if you're adding extra narrations, outlining, Latin, and other "classical" elements to MFW, that will take more time. I still think you could get the majority of it done by noon, though, with your children's ages. Not sure what you have the littles doing while you're working with your olders, but there are ways you can include them in MFW, too. I had a 3yo when we started MFW, and she had her own 1" 3-ring binder with notebook pages that consisted of coloring, stickers, and some of the pages right out of the Appendix in the TM. She did whatever was "fun" and interested her.... I just adapted it to her level.

[Donna A.]

You know, Donna, I picked MFW before getting my hands on the newest WTM. I loved how it scheduled everything for me, including memory work, science, art and music studies. But, after looking at it in light of WTM, I'm just thrilled to see how well it dovetails with WTM! I just needed to give some thought to adding in the classical writing/outlining for RtR. I really can't wait to get to 1850-Modern with the outlining already included!

 

:D

 

I really hope you enjoy it!

[LauraJ]

Thank you Donna! Your advice has been VERY helpful. My son will be in third grade in the fall but his birthday is Sept. 7th, therefore he only missed the cut-off for 4th grade by seven days. He is doing 4th grade work at home already in some subjects. However, I want to be careful of the content because of his maturity level. I really like the fact that Marie has read every book and notifies us of any concern we might have about a particular book's content. Thanks for your help with some of the books so that I can be mindful of them.

 

You bring me to another question when you mentioned your younger one joining in. I will also have a first grader in the fall, do you suggest purchasing the 2nd/3rd grade supplement or just letting her make a notebook with some color pages, etc..??

 

Thanks again!

[Surfside Academy]

I was just on the MFW website wondering how "classical" it was. I am very intrigued by the program. My oldest will be starting 3rd grader so I'm wondering where I should start. We're in SOTW 2 right now. Would it be best to switch over to the Adventures program (Am. History) then begin the cycle again starting the next year? I'm a little on the fence about the 5 year cycle though. I'm very comfortable w/ a 4 year cycle but it would be nice to have history, bible and literature all incorporated into one program and MFW seems a great option. I also consider myself craft-challenged so I'm wondering how doable the hands on projects are. Any advice?

[AudreyTN]

My oldest will be starting 3rd grader so I'm wondering where I should start. We're in SOTW 2 right now. Would it be best to switch over to the Adventures program (Am. History) then begin the cycle again starting the next year?

 

Definitely do Adventures. Exploration to 1850 and 1850 to Modern actually use almost all of the books in Adventures as the 2nd/3rd grade supplement.

 

As far as the 5 year cycle... I don't mind it so much, but with the ages of my kids I will probably never be able to do ECC, unless I want to teach a few programs at once. That probably won't happen.

[LauraJ]

Surfside Academy....while I was at the convention, I was hearing of some people who use MFW with a 4 year cycle from Year 2 to Year 5 and skipping ECC. Of course I am new to this curriculum and someone here may confirm or deny this. I really like the look of ECC though so I will probably try it within the cycle.

[Nakia]

Surfside Academy....while I was at the convention, I was hearing of some people who use MFW with a 4 year cycle from Year 2 to Year 5 and skipping ECC. Of course I am new to this curriculum and someone here may confirm or deny this. I really like the look of ECC though so I will probably try it within the cycle.

 

We are finishing ECC, and I don't think you should skip it! We have had a great year, and my dd has learned so much.

[Donna A.]

Remember that you could always use ECC as a "filler" year when needed, too. You'll probably run into a filler year at some point with multiple aged children, as they're not all going to fold neatly into the history cycle at the same stages. If you do ECC with an older child (7th & 8th grade, and some 6th graders who are ready), you'll want to get the junior high supplement for it.

 

I do agree with Nakia about not skipping ECC completely.... but to plan it for sometime down the road if you don't want to do it now.

 

LauraJ, in your situation, I'd get the Adventures supplement. When I started, we were doing Adventures (the one-year overview, not the supplement to EX1850... EX1850 wasn't done yet), I had a 10yo, 7yo, and 3yo. It was right on target for the 7yo (who's a late bloomer), but I had to beef it up for the 10yo. But we weren't coming from TOG, either. We were coming from a very eclectic, laid back approach, so Adventures was enough for us. It was a FUN year and we learned a lot, not having done any American history up to that point. If you go with EX1850 + Adventures supplement, you might run into a problem content-wise the following year when you do 1850-Modern. You can tweak that as needed, but it might be some extra work for you. Just depends on if you're up to it, and also just *how* classical you want your history to be at this point. If you're willing to do the one-year Adventures and just have fun with it, you can add extra from the Book Basket for your oldest, and then start the cycle over the following year.

 

Do you see on the website where the one-year Adventures is a different package than the Adventures supplement to years 4 and 5? Just want to make sure you know what I'm talking about.... That supplement IS scheduled into the TMs for years 4 and 5, btw, so you don't have to figure out how to work it in.

[Donna A.]

Surfside Academy....while I was at the convention, I was hearing of some people who use MFW with a 4 year cycle from Year 2 to Year 5 and skipping ECC. Of course I am new to this curriculum and someone here may confirm or deny this. I really like the look of ECC though so I will probably try it within the cycle.

 

The 2nd edition of ECC is going to be fantastic! It was one of the earliest programs that Marie wrote and was sorely in need of a makeover, not to mention geographical changes that have taken place over the years that needed updating.

[Donna A.]

Definitely do Adventures. Exploration to 1850 and 1850 to Modern actually use almost all of the books in Adventures as the 2nd/3rd grade supplement.

 

 

This is true; however, the Bible, science, art and music focus are different, so you'll want to take those into consideration as well.

[Donna A.]

I also consider myself craft-challenged so I'm wondering how doable the hands on projects are. Any advice?

 

Very doable. I'm craft-challenged, too. And I was notebooking-challenged until we started MFW. :tongue_smilie: Marie gives very specific directions for those of us who need it, but if you already know how to do something and prefer it that way, then you can do that, too.

 

At the beginning of each TM are a lot of preparation notes for the year, including a list of supplies that will be used repeatedly throughout the year. You'll have plenty of opportunity to do your prep work before the years starts so that the week-to-week prep is little to nothing. Then at the beginning of each week's teacher notes, she has a short list of consumables that you'll need for the week (like food items for a science experiment, for example), as well as pages that need photocopied from the Appendix. I usually do several weeks worth of photocopying at one time so that we're ready to go on Monday morning. Some people do the whole year's worth at the beginning. The consumables for each week are easy.... just check the list and make sure you already have it in the house, and add to your regular grocery list whatever you need. It's pretty minimal. Skip the activities that don't look fun or interesting to you.

 

I remember one project in particular that my crafty girl LOVED. My middle girl hated it because it involved glue and she has sensitivity issues. My 3rd girl was too young to do it herself, so I had to be pretty hands-on with that one. We learned a good lesson from that project, and I learned a bit more about each of my children. ;) From then on, I run the activity choices by the girls to get their vote on which ones we'll do.

[PineFarmMom]

There is no earthly way I could say enough good things about this program...we LOVE IT!! I read WTM when now 8th grade dd was about to start K. I loved the ideas in it but had such a hard time, for years, implementing it. We've been doing MFW for 2 years, and I see how it enables me to do many of the things I wanted to do in the first place. :)

 

This year was the first year we basically implemented all of the recommendations in MFW, for grammar, math, spelling, etc. My 5th grade ds continued to use WT for writing, but other than that, we switched to all of their recommendations. I wasn't crazy about the 8th grade grammar choice or using ILL for my 5th grader. We tried both throughout the year and have switched 5th grade ds back to R&S grammar. I can see how using WS or CW for writing along with R&S and basically adding Latin and continuing everything else as recommended could make a good mix of WTM & CM. The past 2 years of homeschooling have definitely been our best, and I attribute that to MFW.

 

I also am thinking of doing some changes next year to make it more classical for ds...dd will be doing the hs program, which I am beyond excited about!!

 

Teresa

[PineFarmMom]

We are finishing ECC, and I don't think you should skip it! We have had a great year, and my dd has learned so much.

 

 

I agree! Definitely don't skip it. It has enabled us to automatically know where many of the locations are that we are studying through the rest of the cycle. It helped us to know the religions of the people in those areas and to have a heart for all of them! I was more than just a little impressed when my kids could label on a blank map a very large portion of the 100 countries countries we had learned in the geography game throughout the year...I actually think dd labeled 90 of them correctly!! Plus, we are more open to foods from different cultures than we were in the beginning. FUN learning!! Again, no way to express the life this curriculum has brought to our school.

 

There are those who can put curriculum together ala WTM and do it wonderfully. I just never could do it without overdoing it, underdoing it, or just feeling confused and overwhelmed! I think it helps mix SWB's brilliant ideas with CM's brilliant ideas and hands them to someone like me who needs help. ;)

[LauraJ]

AH! Thank you Donna! I found the supplement in the catalog and see what you mean. I am more excited now to add her in! I did see in the catalog about the content being too difficult for 2nd & 3rd graders for 1850 to Modern but I am glad I can still have them join you in Bible, Science, Presidents and States studies, etc.

 

Texas T, thanks for your encouragment of how easy MFW helps us to homeschool classically. I

 

I am off to order!!!! :auto:

[MusicMouseTN]

This has been a GREAT thread. I too have been interested in MFW and wondering how it all fits into the classical model that I am so intrigued by. Thanks for all the advice!

[LauraJ]

Okay, thanks to all of you, I have a plan to do MFW and make it even more classical than it already is. Tell me what you think....

 

I just purchased Year Four-Exploration to 1850 for my son with the 2nd & 3rd Supplement for my daughter. I will definately be adding books from the book basket (which there are MANY to select from) from my library. On top of everything that MFW will give them (and I have been really impressed with their book selections, activities, and especially their notebooks) I will be adding, for my son, Prima Latina, Classical Writing, Logic workbooks like Mind Benders, etc, Wordly Wise, Shurley Grammar, and Classical Conversations awesome memory work plan. Of course Math and spelling too!)

 

I will also re-arrange the schedule to fit our needs. We do a four day a week schedule to fit in our Co-op.

 

Let me know what you think!!

[dhudson]

MFW is already on a four day schedule for the most part so you won't need to rearrange for co-op day.

 

It sounds like you have a good plan and I hope MFW works for you as well as it has for us. I also add mind-benders and logic workbooks in for fun after they have finished their regular work. Mindbenders also has some computer programs that my kids enjoy.

 

Exp to 1850 has the students memorize the book of James so make sure you plan for that when adding in other things to memorize. It's quite an undertaking but we have really been blessed by it. All three of mine have almost finished up all five chapters.

Edited May 5, 2009 by dhudson
just remembered -

[LauraJ]

Thanks Dawn, I didn't realize it was set up on a four day schedule. I was so busy checking everything out at the convention, that I thought I saw a five day set up. Good! One less thing to do!

[Surfside Academy]

Okay, thanks to all of you, I have a plan to do MFW and make it even more classical than it already is. Tell me what you think....

 

I just purchased Year Four-Exploration to 1850 for my son with the 2nd & 3rd Supplement for my daughter. I will definately be adding books from the book basket (which there are MANY to select from) from my library. On top of everything that MFW will give them (and I have been really impressed with their book selections, activities, and especially their notebooks) I will be adding, for my son, Prima Latina, Classical Writing, Logic workbooks like Mind Benders, etc, Wordly Wise, Shurley Grammar, and Classical Conversations awesome memory work plan. Of course Math and spelling too!)

 

I will also re-arrange the schedule to fit our needs. We do a four day a week schedule to fit in our Co-op.

 

Let me know what you think!!

 

This sounds really similiar to what I'm thinking of doing this upcoming year. I will probably start w/ the Adventures program however since I'll have a 3rd grader and 1st grader and add Lively Latin, WWE 3, GWG and possibly Wordly Wise. I'll probably do the ECC the following year then just back into the history cycle rotation for subsequent years.

[Donna A.]

Thanks Dawn, I didn't realize it was set up on a four day schedule. I was so busy checking everything out at the convention, that I thought I saw a five day set up. Good! One less thing to do!

 

You may have noticed something written on the schedule for the 5th day, but it's very light.... review Bible memory work, maybe a short writing lesson, math, and reading. *Occasionally* there's an extra history reading or hands-on activity scheduled for Friday, but not regularly. This would be easy to work around for co-op.