bethben Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I am teaching my ds piano - we don't have the funds to pay for a teacher and I can do it somewhat...It has become the thing I dread in the week - giving my ds a piano lesson. I'm not very confident in what I'm doing, and he complains and whines, and cries because "it's too hard". He winds up doing just fine when he practices. The attitude is a whole other story - he just needs to work through things that are "too hard". Anyway, while we're working on the attitude, piano has become the thing I HATE to give lessons for. So, the big question - what is a good reason to continue? Music is just not his thing anyway (he's really a science/engineering type)---any good reasons for me to not toss this one out? Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 My choir director handed this out years ago. I loved it because it explains all the reasons I want my child to have a music education. I myself never had one. Although it's written for choral music, I think much applies to any kind of music education. HTH! Choral Music as Education MUSIC IS A SCIENCE It is exact, specific; it demands precise acoustics. A conductor’s score is a chart, a graph which indicates frequencies, intensities, volume variations, linear melody, and harmonic density all at once within the most structured parameters of time. MUSIC IS MATHEMATICAL It is rhythmically based upon the subdivisions of time into fractions which must be executed instantaneously and extemporaneously, without benefit of calculations on paper. MUSIC IS COMMUNICATIONS AND FOREIGN LANGUAGE Most of the terms and instructive symbolism are in Italian, German, or French, and the notation itself is certainly not in English but a highly-developed kind of shorthand which uses abstract symbols to represent ideas. The semantics of music is the most complex and universal of languages. MUSIC IS HISTORY Music usually reflects the influence of the environment and time of its creation, and speaks of the country and/or ethnicity of its composer, text, or feeling. MUSIC IS PHYSICAL It requires fantastic co-ordination of fingers, hands, arms, lips, cheeks and facial muscles - in addition to extraordinary control of the diaphragmatic, back, stomach, and chest muscles which must respond instantly to the sound the ear hears and the mind interprets. MUSIC IS ALL THESE THINGS, BUT MOST OF ALL MUSIC IS ART It allows a human being to apply all these dry, technically boring (but difficult) techniques and use them to create emotion. These are things which technology and science cannot duplicate: humanism, feeling, emotion, soul; call it what you will. I want to teach YOU music... Not because I expect you to major in music, or to sing in choruses all your life; Not just so you can relax and have fun... but, so you will be more human, so you will recognize and embrace beauty, so you will be more sensitive, so you will be closer to an infinite beyond this world, so you will have something to cling to, have more compassion, more gentleness, more good... in short - more lfe. Of what real value is it to make a prosperous living, unless you know how to live? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Let me add that I do not require that my mathy child take piano. I do require that he do something in the fine arts area: musical instrument, choir, drama, art, dance, etc. He chose piano for a while, now guitar. I also admire that you can teach him piano. I had to hire it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelia Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Music does help with mathematics skills. This is from the Kinderbach and Violin Book websites: 1) Listening and identifying the distance of tones, strengthens the neural pathways. Physical movement emphasizing the difference speaks to the kinesthetic learners. Music is measurement and difference, listening to math or more commonly known as the “Mozart Effectâ€. 2) Sequential learning is an important math skill. Music classes accomplish this by listening to a song, singing a song, playing it with rhythm instruments, analyzing differences and then playing it on the keyboard. 3) Beats and note value – The skill of identifying the beat value of a given note symbol overlaps with basic math skills. Playing rhythms deeply internalizes this skill. 4) Division of measures, bar lines, and time signature. The spatial temporal part of the brain is exercised as notes are grouped and classified. -------- Children not only receive the benefits of these overall academic improvements, but gain the equally important values of greater self-esteem and self-discipline, which comes as a result of gaining personal competence through the skill of music making. Music Training provides a unique kind of “hands on†practice of skills which nurtures the essential basic mental elements of “focusing of the mind†and the “learning of concentration.†Many parents with young children are amazed in the difference Music Training makes in their child’s attitude and behavior in life. Childhood behavioral difficulties have even been reported to “succumb†to the power of confidence in oneself learned through good Music Training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testimony Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 My choir director handed this out years ago. I loved it because it explains all the reasons I want my child to have a music education. I myself never had one. Although it's written for choral music, I think much applies to any kind of music education. HTH! Choral Music as Education MUSIC IS A SCIENCE It is exact, specific; it demands precise acoustics. A conductor’s score is a chart, a graph which indicates frequencies, intensities, volume variations, linear melody, and harmonic density all at once within the most structured parameters of time. MUSIC IS MATHEMATICAL It is rhythmically based upon the subdivisions of time into fractions which must be executed instantaneously and extemporaneously, without benefit of calculations on paper. MUSIC IS COMMUNICATIONS AND FOREIGN LANGUAGE Most of the terms and instructive symbolism are in Italian, German, or French, and the notation itself is certainly not in English but a highly-developed kind of shorthand which uses abstract symbols to represent ideas. The semantics of music is the most complex and universal of languages. MUSIC IS HISTORY Music usually reflects the influence of the environment and time of its creation, and speaks of the country and/or ethnicity of its composer, text, or feeling. MUSIC IS PHYSICAL It requires fantastic co-ordination of fingers, hands, arms, lips, cheeks and facial muscles - in addition to extraordinary control of the diaphragmatic, back, stomach, and chest muscles which must respond instantly to the sound the ear hears and the mind interprets. MUSIC IS ALL THESE THINGS, BUT MOST OF ALL MUSIC IS ART It allows a human being to apply all these dry, technically boring (but difficult) techniques and use them to create emotion. These are things which technology and science cannot duplicate: humanism, feeling, emotion, soul; call it what you will. I want to teach YOU music... Not because I expect you to major in music, or to sing in choruses all your life; Not just so you can relax and have fun... but, so you will be more human, so you will recognize and embrace beauty, so you will be more sensitive, so you will be closer to an infinite beyond this world, so you will have something to cling to, have more compassion, more gentleness, more good... in short - more lfe. Of what real value is it to make a prosperous living, unless you know how to live? :iagree: I couldn't have said this better. Can I put this on my blog? Blessings, Karen http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 What program are you using to teach him with? Could it be, perhaps, that you might need to change programs? I ask only because I started out with Piano Adventures for my dc initially. They hated it. I switched asap to Pianimals and they have loved piano ever since. Perhaps you could try something different with your ds to see if he responds more to a different way of teaching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testimony Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Piano helps with hand-eye coordination better than nintendo. :D Blessings, Karen http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 :iagree: I couldn't have said this better. Can I put this on my blog? Blessings, Karen http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony Sure. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethben Posted April 29, 2009 Author Share Posted April 29, 2009 We ARE using piano adventures. Only because that is what my mom - the "professional piano teacher" said to use. I had her suggest stuff only because I had really no idea of what I should use. How is pianimals different? My ds is 8 1/2. I really have no idea about what is out there as far as piano instruction. If ds could play only songs that he knew and loved (he did get to work up to a star wars piece which he would have marched through walls to be able to play), I think we could make it better. Any help? Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Music and math are so related that I have a hard time believing a child who is into engineering and mathematics could be disinclined to music for learning style reasons. The same part of the brain is used for both. I think your little one probably doesn't like piano because it's hard. It's very hard. It's essentially learning a new language, and one you have to read with your fingers, and a whole bunch of fingers all at the same time. It's really hard. It's completely natural that he'd hate it. I sometimes bang my head against my piano, too. Everyone does. Did I mention that it's hard? That's also one of the reasons to learn piano (or another instrument). It develops a child's ability to learn, and makes him smarter all around. I will echo the advice of the others. Perhaps you should look into changing programs. My kids have liked Pianimals because they can start playing songs that sound good right away. Take it nice and slow and let him practice more than he learns new skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDBask Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 My son doesn't live at your house, does he?:confused: My ds(10) is a perfectionist and piano brings it out of him like NOTHING else. I used to teach him, but when it was not perfect...meltdown city. It has ended up being one of two things we have hired out (piano and swimming). I still have to help him practice the first day (he gets angry at himself and even cries by times) but it is different when I am not the one who "assigned" it. By the end of the week he flies through his pieces and says he loves this song or that, usually the same one he "hated" at first. I believe that it is a character issue and we are not allowing him to quit. Most things come so easily for him that he needs the discipline of working through it and sticking with it. I could probably teach any other child and I am qualified to do so...but after teaching him math, LA, etc., I just don't have the emotional energy to teach him piano. My dd(8) also takes from someone else even tho I could be teaching her as well. I may teach her next year but I think as homeschooled children, seeing someone new and fresh is good for both of them. (I think their attitudes are different for others, too.) He does enjoy it more when he knows and likes the songs. Our piano has classical pieces prerecorded on it and he often plays bits of them by ear. For now we are sticking with learning by note but in a couple of years may send him to someone who can help him develop his ear training. The others gave great educational reasons and I thought I would share our character reason for continuing with the lessons. I hope you find reason to continue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brindee Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Sue, I LOVE that! I'm going to print that out to keep! (If that's okay?) Rosi, good thoughts! Which reminds me, seeing as how piano is hard, your son will learn that if he perseveres, he will gain, he will succeed. The more successes he has, the more he could enjoy it---if just for the rewar at the end (of being able to play the songs well)! It teaches discipline and stick-to-itiveness, which certainly helps in the academic area! We used Alfred's. Their beginning books are pretty cool. Well, at least all 3 of my kids liked them, even my middle one is is non-musical! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons in the flower bed Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 How is pianimals different? You can look at some program samples here. It never introduces a song that the child has not heard, and it focuses on one skill at a time, never introducing two new ideas at once (for example, it would never teach "hit this key for A" at the same time as "this symbol means A"). Did you know that there are a bunch of tutorials on YouTube showing how to play popular theme songs on the internet? Maybe his attitude would improve if you just did fun songs over the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 I am teaching my ds piano - we don't have the funds to pay for a teacher and I can do it somewhat...It has become the thing I dread in the week - giving my ds a piano lesson. I'm not very confident in what I'm doing, and he complains and whines, and cries because "it's too hard". He winds up doing just fine when he practices. The attitude is a whole other story - he just needs to work through things that are "too hard". Anyway, while we're working on the attitude, piano has become the thing I HATE to give lessons for. So, the big question - what is a good reason to continue? Music is just not his thing anyway (he's really a science/engineering type)---any good reasons for me to not toss this one out? Beth Hmmm. Piano is non-negotiable here, and right now, due to lack of funds, I am the teacher. I, too, hate sitting down and giving lessons. So, I don't. My 8 year old fusses, whines, and will often melt down when it's time to move onto a new piece. He will throw up his hands in frustration, and cry that he "can't do it, it's too hard." However, we've been through this enough that I *know* he can do it. So I encourage him, tell him of course he can, and walk away. When he starts to work on it, I will listen. He will often need help with reading the notes, or figuring out the fingering or timing. When he starts to get stuck or frustrated, I come in to help. But we don't really do weekly lessons. I do require daily practice. He works on a piece, and I listen to his practice. I go in when I'm needed, or when I hear that he's got something wrong. When he's got the piece down, I introduce the next piece, and do a quick teaching of any new concept. This might happen once a week, or once every two weeks, or in just a couple of days. I do this with my 12 year old too, and it works very well. For some reason, me sitting down with them every week to give them a "lesson" just made us both cranky. I don't have the emotional energy to do it, either - not after teaching everything else. But the way we've evolved things, it doesn't *feel* like I'm giving another lesson. It just feels like I'm listening to their practice (while I'm on the computer, or doing chores, keeping an ear out), and helping when needed. Like others have mentioned, I encourage you to look at different programs. My 12 year old never really got excited about piano until his previous teacher got him a book of all Star Wars music. That did the trick ;-) He's very amenable to going through the teaching books I choose, as long as he can take breaks here and there to play popular music. It took a great deal of trial and error before I found a program that suited me *and* the kids. We do use Faber's Piano Adventures after the kids know the basics of how to play - it has the best combination of instruction and varied musical styles, gradual increases in difficulty, plus optional popular music books. OTOH, I have experience in playing and teaching. If I didn't I'd use a series that gave me more help. Pianimals might be just the thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 We ARE using piano adventures. Only because that is what my mom - the "professional piano teacher" said to use. Any change your mom, the "professional piano teacher", can teach your children? :D I suppose you wouldn't have this problem if that was possible, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildiris Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Have you looked at the Alfred Basic Piano series? Rainbow carries it. Have you considered that your dislike of piano practice is contagious? I've watched our piano teacher working with my daughter and other younger students and she is amazing to listen to and watch. She manages to keep the lesson upbeat and positive even when the kid is putting up resistance. Playing piano requires doing a number of a things simultaneously. It is hard work, and I am effusive when a piece gets only several of many corrections to stick after repeated playings. Don't hesitate to lavish your child with praise for effort and and job well done. I've found that praise can make a big difference in attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethben Posted April 29, 2009 Author Share Posted April 29, 2009 My mom- the professional piano teacher - lives 350 miles away. She gave him a piano lesson when she was here and he did sooooo much better. No complaining, no whining...I guess I have the summer to figure this out. Yes- my attitude probably plays into his attitude. Maybe I just have to switch things around and give lessons on Saturdays - where there's no school. I think a lot of my dislike is that I really don't know how to teach piano. I can see where he needs help, I just have no idea how to address it. By the way, is there any place on the web where you can print out note flash cards? Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 When my children were being balky about me teaching them, I set up a thing with our former teacher (in another state); I would set up a webcam and have her watch them play, or videotape them and send her the video. Then she could talk to them about their playing (this worked best with the webcam as a chat session). Would something like that be possible with your mom? There are video lessons, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele B Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 My children take and will take piano. There are many good reasons out there. The reason that stands out to me - I hear so many adults who wished they had stuck with piano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brindee Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 I think a lot of my dislike is that I really don't know how to teach piano. I can see where he needs help, I just have no idea how to address it.I never took piano lessons, but I knew enough music, from choir, saxophone lessons and band, to start them out. The Alfred series had good training for just beginning teachers to go over. Your ds is probably past that level, though. When I first started I had no clue how to teach piano. I went to a local music store, told them I basically knew nothing, and needed something easy to teach. They are the ones that recommended the Alfred's series. Alfred's also has theory and other learning books that coincide with what they're learning in their lesson book, so that's covered as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele B Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 My 8 year old fusses, whines, and will often melt down when it's time to move onto a new piece. He will throw up his hands in frustration, and cry that he "can't do it, it's too hard." However, we've been through this enough that I *know* he can do it.. That is the exact thing dd8 does. But as soon as she works through the piece 2ce - she has a new favorite piece! I get so frustrated because it is the SAME way every time there is a new piece! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele B Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 We take a Harmony Row music class. It is a group piano class. I love it! 2 things that energize dd8: Occasionally an older student will come in and play their piece. dd8's face lights up and she says "I want to play like that!" Sometimes she watches the organist in church. "I want to play like Miss Jane." Maybe a bit of encouragement from an older kid once and awhile for inspiration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildiris Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Even after 13 years of shepherding kids through music practice at home, I am not sure I'd go it alone. Nonetheless, here is a link to the Portland Music Company: http://www.portlandmusiccompany.co/book/ABPC_lessonbooks.htm Consider the following books in the Basic Course: Lesson Book ( Start at the easiest level even if your child moves through it fast.) Theory Book Solo Book Technique Book Classical Themes Beyond the basics of note reading, which the theory or a lower level notespeller book could help with, I would focus on counting and reading not just the notes but dynamic signs as well. Look for patterns in the music and look at the music before it is played to see where it is going and how it gets there. Maybe surf around the Portland site and see if you can find a book that comes with a CD. The below link takes you to a series of books that I've enjoyed using because I can hear how a piece should sound when played. http://www.portlandmusiccompany.com/books/kjos_essential.html I hope some of this will help you on your journey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeJM Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Back to your original question, "Why should my children take piano?" Another reason piano is so important is that it is foundational to instruction in other instruments, so says my dh who has a bachelor degree in music. I'm not sure why this is the case, but to hear him tell it, it's pretty much universally assumed that piano instruction somehow will help with other additional instruments taken later on. That's what HE says, anyway. Best to you, from the non-musician in our family, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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