Why Classical Writing although SWB doesn't recommend it until grades 9-12?

[KIN]

Why did you decide to go with Classical Writing although SWB doesn't recommend it until high school? I'm *still* trying to decide on writing. Thanks for your thoughts!

[Cornerstone Classical]

:lurk5:

[Jean in IN]

Hey, Kathy

how funny this is the first message that popped up on my google reader :) hope you get some good answers.

[KIN]

Hey, Kathy

how funny this is the first message that popped up on my google reader :) hope you get some good answers.

 

I hope I do too, b/c this decision is *killing* me. :001_huh: And, b/c of all my emails, you're suffering with me! :lol:

[Terabith]

Susan Wise Bauer doesn't recommend Classical Writing till high school? I didn't know that! Good to know.

[Michelle in MO]

I hardly ever post on the K-8 boards anymore, because two of mine are in high school now (private). We homeschooled for seven years, until my oldest was in 10th grade and my middle daughter was in 8th grade.

 

We used the Classical Writing series with great success, starting at the time my oldest was in 6th and my middle daughter was in 4th grade. Starting with CW-Aesop, we then did sections of CW-Poetry, then CW-Homer and part of CW-Diogenes. CW can be a bit complicated to use, but it can also be adapted by the parent, as can any other program, for that matter.

 

Really, the Greek progymnasmata were designed by the Greeks to be used at younger ages. We did not have any problem implementing the program in our household. I switched over to Cindy Marsch's Progymnasmata Tutorials through her website, Writing Assessment Services, not because of any dissatisfaction with the CW series, but because I wanted my girls to experience as many levels of the progymnasmata as possible before they finished high school. I was concerned that the authors might not be finished with the series before my girls were through with high school, so I switched over to Cindy's tutorials. Cindy is an excellent, excellent writing tutor; her progymnasmata tutorials are very intense, month-long tutorials. They went through one session at the Beginning progymnasmata levels and two sessions of the Intermediate progymnasmata levels.

 

With the background they had with progymnasmata, my girls spent many free hours during at least two summers practicing writing on their own. They wrote and collaborated on stories, often correcting each others' work.

 

This year, their first year in private school, both girls are doing very well, particularly in English. My middle daughter had to write a personal narrative for a 9th grade writing assignment. After the teacher graded it, he brought her aside and told her, "This is the best personal narrative I've seen in years; this is exactly what I was looking for, and I'd like you to enter this essay writing contest. If you win, your essay will be published." She was thrilled!

 

So, yes, I think the progym. can easily be adapted for younger ages. I would recommend holding off CW-Aesop until about the 3rd or possibly 4th grade, when the child is reading well and when you've given them some experience with copywork and dictation.

[KIN]

This year, their first year in private school, both girls are doing very well, particularly in English.

 

This is the kind of information I'm looking for. Classical Writing is *so* different! I'm drawn to it, yet I'm nervous it won't prepare my kids for college level writing. I'm also concerned that it is so difficult that it will be hard for me to implement along with teaching 3 other dc.

[Kfamily]

The samples from WTM, the new editon, shows CW recommended in 5th-8th grade (along with other recommendations).

 

Just wanted to share that....:001_smile:

[KIN]

The samples from WTM, the new editon, shows CW recommended in 5th-8th grade (along with other recommendations).

 

Just wanted to share that....

 

Thank you for that information! That makes me feel much better about Classical Writing! SWB's recommendations mean a lot to me. :) I see so many folks using CW, yet all I had read, SWB didn't recommend it at the lower grades.

[Zelda]

So, yes, I think the progym. can easily be adapted for younger ages. I would recommend holding off CW-Aesop until about the 3rd or possibly 4th grade, when the child is reading well and when you've given them some experience with copywork and dictation.

 

I could not agree more. We started with CW-Aesop in 3rd (we are now in CW-Aesop B) and the difference in her writing from before and after is impressive. While the authors' overview of the progym can be dense, the explanations of how to implement the program are not and the workbooks provide even more guidance. Once you get going it becomes very easy to teach. And a good bit of grammar gets learned in the process. I've been very happy with it.

[Bright_Future]

Call me dense or at least out of the loop, but where did you see samples for the new WTM?

[Kfamily]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com

 

Click on "About the Book"

 

HTH:001_smile:

[Mama Lynx]

Excellent post!

 

After using CW with two kids, here is my decision: We will start CW when a child is ready to write easily. With child #2, that was 3rd grade. With child #3, that may not be until 5th grade.

 

I *am* of the opinon that CW Aesop and Homer can easily be condensed into shorter courses. But the courses are excellent, and we enjoy them, especially Diogenes.

[KIN]

I *am* of the opinon that CW Aesop and Homer can easily be condensed into shorter courses.

 

Mama Lynx - What do you mean by the above statement? One can go faster through the lessons? There is much repitition?

[Michelle in MO]

Thank you for that information! That makes me feel much better about Classical Writing! SWB's recommendations mean a lot to me. :) I see so many folks using CW, yet all I had read, SWB didn't recommend it at the lower grades.

I'm obviously not SWB, but some of the higher levels of the progymnasmata are more difficult and should only be tackled by older students. However, you start out slowly, with CW-Aesop, rewriting fables. We loved CW-Aesop! Then you build up to CW-Homer, then on to Diogenes, etc. It was similar with Cindy Marsch's tutorials (but, we had already done at least 3 books from the CW series): we did one session of the Beginning level of her progym. series (which I think covered Narrative, Fable, and Proverb, although I may have the order mixed up); then two sessions of the Intermediate level (Description, Anecdote, Refutation/Confirmation). Each progym. session lasted for one month, and they wrote for approximately two hours per day. By the Intermediate levels the progym. do get more difficult, and yes, a younger student would not be able to tackle that. My girls did well, but then they were 13 and 15 years old. Cindy Marsch encourages students to wait for the Advanced level of her progym. until they are at least 15 years old, and this would undoubtedly coincide with the recommendations of the authors of Classical Writing---Lene Mahler Jaqua and Tracy Gustilo and Kathy Weitz.

 

The beauty of the progymnasmata is that it is really age-appropriate, and builds up slowly, sequentially, and methodically. It does not turn out writers who are "carbon copies" of each other; in fact, my two older girls are both very good writers but have completely different styles, and yet I worked them together in almost every subject! Neither do the progymnasmata turn out writers who are trying to slavishly imitate the ancient Greeks---there is far too much freedom and leeway in the program for that! Your kids can work at their own pace, and you can use all of CW (including its grammar and spelling components) or just portions thereof (i.e., the writing component).

 

I hope this helps!

[Jackie in AR]

I hardly ever post on the K-8 boards anymore, because two of mine are in high school now (private). We homeschooled for seven years, until my oldest was in 10th grade and my middle daughter was in 8th grade.

 

We used the Classical Writing series with great success, starting at the time my oldest was in 6th and my middle daughter was in 4th grade. Starting with CW-Aesop, we then did sections of CW-Poetry, then CW-Homer and part of CW-Diogenes. CW can be a bit complicated to use, but it can also be adapted by the parent, as can any other program, for that matter.

 

Really, the Greek progymnasmata were designed by the Greeks to be used at younger ages. We did not have any problem implementing the program in our household. I switched over to Cindy Marsch's Progymnasmata Tutorials through her website, Writing Assessment Services, not because of any dissatisfaction with the CW series, but because I wanted my girls to experience as many levels of the progymnasmata as possible before they finished high school. I was concerned that the authors might not be finished with the series before my girls were through with high school, so I switched over to Cindy's tutorials. Cindy is an excellent, excellent writing tutor; her progymnasmata tutorials are very intense, month-long tutorials. They went through one session at the Beginning progymnasmata levels and two sessions of the Intermediate progymnasmata levels.

 

With the background they had with progymnasmata, my girls spent many free hours during at least two summers practicing writing on their own. They wrote and collaborated on stories, often correcting each others' work.

 

This year, their first year in private school, both girls are doing very well, particularly in English. My middle daughter had to write a personal narrative for a 9th grade writing assignment. After the teacher graded it, he brought her aside and told her, "This is the best personal narrative I've seen in years; this is exactly what I was looking for, and I'd like you to enter this essay writing contest. If you win, your essay will be published." She was thrilled!

 

So, yes, I think the progym. can easily be adapted for younger ages. I would recommend holding off CW-Aesop until about the 3rd or possibly 4th grade, when the child is reading well and when you've given them some experience with copywork and dictation.

 

Great post, Michelle.

 

We've used the CW series exclusively here in our home with great success. We begin each child in about 3rd/4th grade with Aesop. The writing exercises in the CW series in the first two levels (Aesop and Homer) are simple retellings of fables and narratives, and don't require genius-level children to complete. Plain old ordinary kids do just fine with the material. :D

 

After Homer comes Diogenes (Maxim and Chreia), where beginning essay writing is taught. The authors of the program don't recommend that material for dc younger than 7th grade.

 

My two oldest dc are finishing up Diogenes: Chreia this spring. They will move into Herodotus in the fall as they begin 9th grade. My 6th grader is working in Homer, and I anticipate my rising 3rd grader to begin Aesop sometime next school year, maybe after Christmas.

 

I have been exceptionally pleased with the CW program as a whole; I envision us using it all the way through high school.

[Colleen in NS]

The samples from WTM, the new editon, shows CW recommended in 5th-8th grade (along with other recommendations).

 

Just wanted to share that....:001_smile:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com

 

Click on "About the Book"

 

HTH:001_smile:

 

I'm glad you posted this link! I'd never have found it. And now I need to go edit another post I wrote today, and link this for the OP - I had mentioned to her that PHP didn't list CW as a rec for logic stage. It still doesn't, but this sample from the new WTM has a helpful review of using CW in logic stage.