MFW's high school programs?

[razorbackmama]

Anyone using this? How are you liking it? I just looked at the sample online, and it looks sort of "light?" HOWEVER, that is taking into account that I'm coming from TOG, and their R stuff is college-level, IMO LOL! I guess it just struck me as odd that they use a resource for MFW for high school that TOG assigns as a reading for the UG level. (It was too much for my UG student at the time. ;) )

 

Do they do the Book Basket for high school too, with supplemental reading available? Or is all the work on the schedule, and if I think it needs to be more rigorous, I'd need to come up with something?

 

What are the writing assignments like?

 

How is the literature instruction? (I'm VERY excited to see that it includes literature!!!!!!!)

[dhudson]

I've looked at but haven't used it yet as my oldest is only in 6th but it looks pretty rigorous to me. I think there are a lot of writing assignments. Agreeing with Christins to ask on the MFW board. There are several there who are going through it now.

[cbollin]

Not using it yet, but I've asked a lot of questions to several of my friends who are using it.

 

I think the book you are referring to is Cat of Bubastes. The literature guide (edit to say: I mean the teaching notes for that book, not an actual lit guide) that is used for that book is written for higher level. So, it's ok if a kid has read it before, it will be easier to study at a higher level. But that is taken into consideration. MFW recommends that same book in the CTG (creation to the Greeks program) in book basket. So, they use it at multiple levels.

 

MFW High school is written as parent guided/independent study. So the planning is done. Kid has to work 5-6 hours a day to get everything done (all subjects including science, math, the MFW program).

 

Bible: The entire Old Testament is read and in depth discussion questions are part of that. So, you get Old Testament plus apologetics, various inductive studies of some of the OT. Also a lot of "why am I here" kind of study. So, that part isn't light in my opinion. All of the kids of my friends who have used this keep saying things like this really made me own my worldview of the Bible instead of it just being my dad's views. It definitely is hitting with these teens right where they there age wise.

 

History uses Notgrass and other resources.

 

Lots of argumentative essays are part of the program. For students who don't know how to do that, the MFW manual teaches them.

 

Lit. studies in Ancients include some SMARR guides that MFW worked.

 

oh wait, you asked about book basket: there isn't the same kind of enrichment readings as "basket list", but there are additional suggestions for more reading.

 

So, yeah, agreeing with Christina and Dawn, you might want to ask on MFW board or something like the yahoo group mfwfamilies where more of the MFW users hang out.

 

And MFW will have the high school programs on display at convention so you can look through the daily lesson plans to get a better feel of how much is covered and how it done. Lots of the questions that the kids answer aren't in the manual, but in the literature supplement (that's what the lit supplement is) and directly from some of the other resources. So that might be why their sample might look lighter than a TOG sample.

 

-crystal

Edited March 12, 2009 by cbollin
try to remove confusion of wrong word

[cbollin]

and yes, MFW's high school is written as college prep too.

 

-crystal

[4wildberrys]

Yes---someone asked the question that I CAN NOT DECIDE! Should we use WP + sl or MFW + SL??? The reading is NO problem for my kids---I am a born supplementer and they don't complain. I love the reading of SL, but there is no interaction with the reading, so I supplement with WP now. Buuut.....I recently found MFW and am very intrigued! I Can. Not. decide. between the WP or MFW:confused: I guess our ultimate goal is to make sure that when our kids go off to college---they are secure as Christians so the college (which will be secular---can't afford private or Christian) does not suck their soul away! Okay---sorry to non-Christians, but this is what can happen to Christian kids not secure enough in their faith who attend secular colleges---their very soul is in danger :tongue_smilie: I have the next 5 years all planned out---2 schedules with WP or MFW---and cost is pretty much the same, but still can not decide. And I guess the biggest problem is that I am still pretty undecided between Classical/CM and Lit/CM..............:tongue_smilie:

[cbollin]

I guess our ultimate goal is to make sure that when our kids go off to college---they are secure as Christians

 

I'm bias. I think you'd enjoy MFW for that goal. Other programs might work too. I don't know every program on the market. Is it the curriculum on its own that will help to achieve that goal? As Christians, we know that's not the case. Curriculum is just a tool. But yeah, if you're feeling drawn to MFW and worldview is an important issue, then take a look at it at convention and keep praying.

 

 

I have my friend's permission to share this part of his story. The now 18 year old son of one of my friends helped to pilot MFW's high school. He was homeschooled only for 10th, 11th, and this year in 12th grade. Before that he was public school kid of a pastor. “Homeschooling changed my life,†is what this kid will very melodramatically tell you. (He can be quite the ham at times.) He really began to develop a Biblical worldview and own it as his own and has only used MFW high school for his homeschool academic life. Academically he will go next fall to a very well known engineering university and is on several academic scholarships at that university. He plans to major in chemistry or chemical engineering. This is the kid who looked at colleges when he was in 10th grade expecting to go to a party school near an ocean with no expectation of having to do the church thing anymore with his parents. In 12th grade he applied to places nearer to his family and church family where he was praying that God would not let him walk away from his faith.

 

I don't know what will happen to him over the next years. But that's his story right now.

 

If your goal is about worldview and you like things like classical and literature and all of that, I really think you will be happy with what MFW is offering. One of the weekly check boxes in the student grid is all about doing regular service projects to practice your faith.

 

Keep praying. You have time to decide.

 

-crystal

[Donna A.]

Anyone using this? How are you liking it? I just looked at the sample online, and it looks sort of "light?" HOWEVER, that is taking into account that I'm coming from TOG, and their R stuff is college-level, IMO LOL! I guess it just struck me as odd that they use a resource for MFW for high school that TOG assigns as a reading for the UG level. (It was too much for my UG student at the time. ;) )

 

 

But some would say that TOG is overkill. ;)

[Julie in MN]

One of the core books in MFW high school year 1 is not pictured. It is the complete Old Testament. How's that for a big book to tackle :001_smile: Lots of history and literature in there. Oh, and it's alongside secular books such as the complete Iliad & Odyssey. Much more college prep than I had before, during, or after my college degree.

[Quiver0f10]

But some would say that TOG is overkill. ;)

 

 

This is where I am at. I love TOG in the younger grades, but at the high school levle it is way more than I want or need.

[Quiver0f10]

 

I think the book you are referring to is Cat of Bubastes.

 

I was thinking she meant the Usborne Encyclopedia of the Ancient World. I, too, wondered why they chose a book that I have seen recommended for younger kids in other programs. However, I plan to have my HSer use one of our Spievogel books to beef it up some ( if needed)

[cbollin]

I was thinking she meant the Usborne Encyclopedia of the Ancient World. I, too, wondered why they chose a book that I have seen recommended for younger kids in other programs.

 

oh. Because that's not the only book for history nor the main spine ;) It's the book to fill in some missing pieces and to provide color.

 

What's wrong with using a quick, easy, internet linked reference book in 9th grade to add some color to the main texts you're using? Nothing really. It's not like it is the main spine or anything. I've watched when my parents and in-laws visit that they enjoy looking at the Usborne books too. Sometimes they like pictures and color ones at that.

 

I'd be more concerned it if were the main source of info. But it's not. That internet linked encyclopedia fills some gaps that are missing from the Notgrass books (it helps to see history and color pics are good!)

 

 

 

-crystal

[Quiver0f10]

oh. Because that's not the only book for history nor the main spine ;) It's the book to fill in some missing pieces and to provide color.

 

What's wrong with using a quick, easy, internet linked reference book in 9th grade to add some color to the main texts you're using? Nothing really. It's not like it is the main spine or anything. I've watched when my parents and in-laws visit that they enjoy looking at the Usborne books too. Sometimes they like pictures and color ones at that.

 

I'd be more concerned it if were the main source of info. But it's not. That internet linked encyclopedia fills some gaps that are missing from the Notgrass books (it helps to see history and color pics are good!)

 

 

 

-crystal

 

Oh, I agree. Definitely. I was just thinking that might be what she meant. We have the Notgrass books here and my kids have really enoyed doing them.

[Quiver0f10]

My issue with the package is The Purpose Driven Life. I really dislike this book! I have many ideas for things to substitute though so I hope it will be something I can change out without affecting the program too much. Then again, I may do a customized, science oriented WTM thing for ds. That would actually be my first choice...... but I don't know if I have that kind of time. It would be easier to get MFW HS and then tweak it to emphasizes science for this child.

 

 

If we do go with MFW for HS we wont be doing this book either. Not sure yet what exactly we will be using or adding.

[cbollin]

Even the MFW office says that it is easy to substitute the Warren book in the context of the lesson plans. So, that shouldn't be an issue for people who have already done it or just really don't want to use it for whatever reasons.

 

 

You'll just want a book or books that helps them to look at finding their purpose in life and why they will do what they do. And that it is not all about them. It's about helping them at that point in their lives when they are trying to find their place in this world and have it in the context of serving God.

 

Here are some suggestions for you to look at and determine if they work better:

*our church used Living a Life on Loan (Standard Publishing)

*what about Alex and Brett Harris' book Do Hard Things.

 

 

-crystal

Edited March 12, 2009 by cbollin
typo

[Quiver0f10]

I am not there yet so I haven't nailed anything down, but I will be looking at some inductive bible studies, Josh McDowell stuff and resources by Rob Bell. "My Velvet Elvis" will be required reading before graduation but I am not sure when I will assign it. The Do hard Things book along with some Rob Bell might be just the right mix for us.

 

Thanks. I will look into those books.

[mommaduck]

My issue with the package is The Purpose Driven Life. I really dislike this book! I have many ideas for things to substitute though so I hope it will be something I can change out without affecting the program too much. Then again, I may do a customized, science oriented WTM thing for ds. That would actually be my first choice...... but I don't know if I have that kind of time. It would be easier to get MFW HS and then tweak it to emphasizes science for this child.

I actually spoke with the author's husband about this book. Basically, he could change it out for any other book and one person or other would complain...which is true, you can't make everyone happy at the same time. They saw value in it and if we don't, then we can always switch it out for some other (Reformed ;) ) book. (JC Ryle's Holiness comes to mind :D )

[home4school]

I have never read the Purpose Driven Life. I usually feel I need to be embarrassed for people to know that. I thought it was the be-all, end-all. I actually do have a copy, but just never gotten around to reading it. May I ask what you don't like about it?

 

We were actually visiting a church when they presented their graduates each with a book, Don't Waste Your Life by John Piper. I don't know anything about it either, but here's a link. It has study guides and dvds, so maybe that might be a possibility to sub for the other.

 

http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/easy_find?Ntk=keywords&Ntt=don%27t+waste+your+life&action=Search&N=0&Ne=0&event=ESRCN&nav_search=1&cms=1

 

Blessings,

Kim

[Quiver0f10]

I emailed this to MFW, but I'd love to hear other opinons.

 

My upcoming 9th grader is doing ancients this year with TOG. I don't want to have her redo ancients yet so I was thinking of having her use MFW's new WH and lit program, then the US history programs in 10th and 11th and use the Ancients in 12th. Any problems with doing this instead of the way they have it set up on their web site? The only thing I can think of is that she would read the bible out of chronolgical order.

 

MFW has suggested we start with ancients anyways but I am not so sure.

[Donna A.]

I actually spoke with the author's husband about this book. Basically, he could change it out for any other book and one person or other would complain...which is true, you can't make everyone happy at the same time. They saw value in it and if we don't, then we can always switch it out for some other (Reformed ;) ) book. (JC Ryle's Holiness comes to mind :D )

 

We also like Don't Waste Your Life by John Piper.

 

A thought came to mind as I'm reading this thread. It was mentioned that a couple of the books are also used in the elementary years, and I thought, you know, everyone that starts using MFW in h.s. hasn't done those same books. High school is a time when we re-think our goals for our children... what are our goals? Have those goals changed since my child was 5 or 10 or even 12? Is my child showing signs of fruit from walking with the Lord? What about college and ministry?

 

I'd suspect that not everyone who comes into MFW beginning at the h.s. level has used MFW all along, OR that all of them have even done chronological history or in-depth Bible study up to this point. I'm thinking that because h.s. is a time for many of us to "start over and try to do it right for the next 4 years", the Hazell's included some books that would help meet that "starting over" need.

 

I'd also suspect that some TOG users (since TOG was mentioned earlier in this thread) use some books that are "below rhetoric level" without ever advertising that fact. If you're using TOG, you could easily use ANY book from ANY level that's recommended in the manual, and no one ever has to know... unlike MFW which shows you *exactly* which books are recommended and/or scheduled for THAT package. kwim? Just because a book is scheduled that was also used in the younger grades (i.e., Usborne's Ancient World) doesn't mean that a TOG user isn't also using that book. (Or any other curriculum provider... I'm not picking on TOG, but just using that as an example since it was mentioned earlier.)

 

I'd also bet that some TOG users don't use every book that's recommended for a study in their "scheduled" lesson plans, either. ;) I think that most homeschoolers tweak and swap out books no matter what curriculum they're using.

[Donna A.]

I emailed this to MFW, but I'd love to hear other opinons.

 

My upcoming 9th grader is doing ancients this year with TOG. I don't want to have her redo ancients yet so I was thinking of having her use MFW's new WH and lit program, then the US history programs in 10th and 11th and use the Ancients in 12th. Any problems with doing this instead of the way they have it set up on their web site? The only thing I can think of is that she would read the bible out of chronolgical order.

 

MFW has suggested we start with ancients anyways but I am not so sure.

 

Jean, I'd love to hear their response, because I'm considering doing something similar. Not because we're doing Ancients right before h.s., but because I'm personally not comfortable with having my 14yod read all the secular "classics" that are typically read during a year of Ancients. This would be true no matter what curriculum we're using... whether it be MFW or someone else. Just personal preference.

[Donna A.]

I have never read the Purpose Driven Life. I usually feel I need to be embarrassed for people to know that. I thought it was the be-all, end-all. I actually do have a copy, but just never gotten around to reading it. May I ask what you don't like about it?

 

We were actually visiting a church when they presented their graduates each with a book, Don't Waste Your Life by John Piper. I don't know anything about it either, but here's a link. It has study guides and dvds, so maybe that might be a possibility to sub for the other.

 

http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/easy_find?Ntk=keywords&Ntt=don%27t+waste+your+life&action=Search&N=0&Ne=0&event=ESRCN&nav_search=1&cms=1

 

Blessings,

Kim

 

Apparently we were posting at the same time. ;) At the risk of this becoming very controversial very quickly....

 

Don't be embarrassed that you haven't read the Warren book. So what? There are 8 gazillion other books out there to choose from. Just because one book is extremely popular doesn't make it the "best" for an individual or family, or church for that matter. I think one reason it got so popular is because many of the more modern churches jumped on the Rick Warren bandwagon and did the whole "Purpose Driven Church" thing. We were in a church that did this at one time, and we actually gave our copy of "Purpose Driven Life" back to the church after skimming through it a bit. It's just not our style at all. (We also don't attend that church anymore.)

 

I also will mention that anyone we've ever known IRL who did the "Purpose Driven Church" thing never showed any fruit from it.... nor did the churches grow the way they were "supposed" to as a result of doing it. To us, it felt more like a "Rick Warren club" than a true Bible study. :)

[Quiver0f10]

Jean, I'd love to hear their response, because I'm considering doing something similar. Not because we're doing Ancients right before h.s., but because I'm personally not comfortable with having my 14yod read all the secular "classics" that are typically read during a year of Ancients. This would be true no matter what curriculum we're using... whether it be MFW or someone else. Just personal preference.

 

 

I sent you a PM.

[cbollin]

Jean, I'd love to hear their response, because I'm considering doing something similar. .

 

Donna,

 

well you can always email or call them or ask at convention. ;)

 

Remember that those ancients classics are being read alongside of the Bible and being done from Christian perspective. So it's not going to be all that bad. Take a long look at convention at the high school books and ask one of the staff kids to walk you through it.

 

Basically, in your case, I think I can "analyze your dream" now (you know, from that other thread on the other board. You wondered what else you were doing wrong. :lol::lol::lol: ) My strong opinion in your case is that your daughter needs to do them in order build up the skills in writing, lit analysis, doing Old Testament first and to just make it easier on everything. That's based on knowing you more than just on boards. ((hugs))

 

 

Jean -- my opinion is that you can do it out of order if you want to provided that: you are confident that your child has learned to write argumentative essays, and has studied all of the Old testament, and is able to work more independently and stay on track. If you aren't really sure about the writing of essays on a very regular basis, then you might be better to go through it in order even if it means the subject material of ancients is repeated. It is more than just about the social studies/history aspect of it. The program builds each year and the MFW author really thinks that most students will just do better to do it in order. You can do it the way you want to do however. So, if you're sure about all of that, you can change the order because you know your family. And if you don't understand why MFW recommended something in the email answer, you can write them back or call. I've done that when I just didn't understand what they meant. They are great to help.

 

I am in a similar situation in terms of history sequence. My oldest started MFW at grade 2 with ECC (before ADV was written). She is repeating ECC as a 7th grader. And then will do CTG next year and then Ancients in 9th. I'm not all that worried about it. Your situation with what you've covered may be different than mine.

 

-crystal

[cbollin]

Apparently we were posting at the same time. ;) At the risk of this becoming very controversial very quickly....

 

 

I don't want to be controversial about it either, just trying to put the book in the context of mfw high school.... it's not about jumping on warren bandwagon clubs or anything. It's not about it being used to study the Bible either. (bible study is done from the bible, not from this book. does that make sense?)

It is just to read that one book (not follow up books, or study guides with it or video series or anything, not for P.d. church or anything). And it is for the ideas of how to not waste your life. but it can be easily substituted to "less controversial" books as well if needed. It 's in the context of reading other books where the people are looking for meaning of life. It's not about learning more about warren.

 

hope that helps and doesn't stir the pot. The book itself is such a minor part of their curriculum. But you'll want to make sure the same concepts are presented.

 

-crystal

Edited March 12, 2009 by cbollin
add a sentence.

[PineFarmMom]

I also will mention that anyone we've ever known IRL who did the "Purpose Driven Church" thing never showed any fruit from it.... nor did the churches grow the way they were "supposed" to as a result of doing it. To us, it felt more like a "Rick Warren club" than a true Bible study. :)

 

On the Purpose Driven Church...my dh is reading it right now after observing my pastor brother's church and him telling us he made a shift in direction after his own reading of that book. He loosely based his church on some of the ideas in the book. His church is thriving in many, many ways as a result of some of the changes they made. I just thought I'd throw out that what I've seen in my brother's church is genuine fruit, genuine growth (not of the feel-good, emergent church stuff that is going on these days), but people truly following Christ. I know it's not every situation with every church, and I realize I'm speaking of just one. You have to have leadership that relies upon God's Word, desires His Will rather than church growth alone, and not all the fluff that is out and about these days.

 

I really don't want controversy either. I tend to stand on Crystal's side on this...it's just one book in the whole program. I've read the book and remember appreciating some of the ideas, but it was one of many books outside the Bible that I have read, so it is added to much more information I've collected. Those that are considering the idea of replacing it, though, I too appreciated reading the John Piper book that others suggested. I am appreciating the Hazel's choices more and more as I go along.

[Donna A.]

Donna,

 

well you can always email or call them or ask at convention. ;)

 

Remember that those ancients classics are being read alongside of the Bible and being done from Christian perspective. So it's not going to be all that bad. Take a long look at convention at the high school books and ask one of the staff kids to walk you through it.

 

Basically, in your case, I think I can "analyze your dream" now (you know, from that other thread on the other board. You wondered what else you were doing wrong. :lol::lol::lol: ) My strong opinion in your case is that your daughter needs to do them in order build up the skills in writing, lit analysis, doing Old Testament first and to just make it easier on everything. That's based on knowing you more than just on boards. ((hugs))

 

 

Yep. I just figured since Jean had already emailed... However, I did talk to Lucy on the phone just a few minutes ago and found out she's going to be at our convention. I'll definitely see her then. ;) I'll take some time to thumb through that AHL package pretty thoroughly, and will have dh do the same. I know that being able to see it "hands on" makes a BIG difference for a visual learner like me. :D I looked at it last year, but only briefly, as it still felt so far away then. Time has a way of creeping up on us! :blink:

[Donna A.]

I really don't want controversy either. I tend to stand on Crystal's side on this...it's just one book in the whole program. I've read the book and remember appreciating some of the ideas, but it was one of many books outside the Bible that I have read, so it is added to much more information I've collected. Those that are considering the idea of replacing it, though, I too appreciated reading the John Piper book that others suggested. I am appreciating the Hazel's choices more and more as I go along.

 

And I can attest that after having used the elementary programs for a few years now, it does "all work together". You have to get past the surface and get "into" the studies, pray, and watch for the fruit. Usually good fruit doesn't appear like a whirlwind.... but in the waiting, the small, still voice of God, and consistency over time. Fruit has to be nurtured in order to produce. :)

[razorbackmama]

Wow, thanks everyone!

 

I didn't realize the Usborne book was a "filler" and that the Notgrass one was more of the spine. THAT I can understand! AND it hit me - DUH:tongue_smilie: - that in ancient history much of the history is BIBLE. No wonder I didn't notice it down in the other sections. (Yes, I am a natural blonde LOLOLOL!)

 

Yes, Donna, I would be one who feels that TOG is overkill. Truly if my senior in high school only made it through the D level in TOG, I would have been very pleased LOL.

 

Anyone know more about the SMARR guides they use? Cathy Duffy's review said that they don't do a wide variety of writing assignments - does MFW change those a bit so that there IS a wider variety?

 

So far (the whole 2 days we've used MFW RTR LOL) I am loving MFW, and I am thrilled to bits to find something that seems to work AND go all the way through high school. Wahoo!

[PineFarmMom]

 

So far (the whole 2 days we've used MFW RTR LOL) I am loving MFW, and I am thrilled to bits to find something that seems to work AND go all the way through high school. Wahoo!

 

 

We are using the HS program next year, and I am wanting to order it so badly, so I can go through it myself. :001_smile: It does look solid to me, and I am liking what I see on Notgrass.

 

I put my own stuff together for years (7 to be exact) with some success, but lots of frustrations. We love mfw so much now!! We are doing 1850-Mod, and we have gotten so much from it! I wish I had found it before last year, though.

[cbollin]

 

Anyone know more about the SMARR guides they use? Cathy Duffy's review said that they don't do a wide variety of writing assignments - does MFW change those a bit so that there IS a wider variety?

 

 

 

I'm not all the way sure how the guides were changed here and there by MFW (with permission from SMARR of course). Things were added about worldview while writing.

 

You'll do lots of argumentative essays. But the those are not the only writing assignments. MFW does add in other writing assignments other than SMARR to give more variety.

 

Also, those guides are only used in AH&L (high school year 1).

 

-crystal

[Donna A.]

So far (the whole 2 days we've used MFW RTR LOL) I am loving MFW, and I am thrilled to bits to find something that seems to work AND go all the way through high school. Wahoo!

 

I didn't know you'd switched! Welcome. We learned sooooo much in RTR! :D

 

On a sidenote, I can't wait to see what they've got planned for year 2 of h.s.! It should be up on the website very soon, I think.

[razorbackmama]

MFW does add in other writing assignments other than SMARR to give more variety.

 

 

Yay!

 

I sure hope the MFW booth has a chair. I'm gonna be there a while. LOL.

[Donna A.]

Yay!

 

I sure hope the MFW booth has a chair. I'm gonna be there a while. LOL.

 

Take one of those folding camp chairs with you. And a travel case on wheels. :thumbup1:

[Angel]

I am planning for my dd to do AHL next year in 10th. I will be going to the convention in April and can't wait to see it. My dd needed to get through American History this year and so I had to "leave" MFW after finding it for Rome to Reformation. I wish that I would have stuck with MFW and just beefed it up for my older dd. I am NOT liking SL. Younger dd will start Adventures next year.

 

I will not be using Purpose Driven Life either. I have to say that we have seen Rob Bell's "Everything is Spiritual" and it is excellent. I don't know about all his stuff, but that was just great!

[Quiver0f10]

On a sidenote, I can't wait to see what they've got planned for year 2 of h.s.! It should be up on the website very soon, I think.

 

When I spoke to them I was told within 2 weeks. I can not wait to see it! :)

[Cornerstone Classical]

I went to look up SMARR on the abreviation link, and it was dead, so tell me what it stands for?:tongue_smilie:

[Quiver0f10]

I went to look up SMARR on the abreviation link, and it was dead, so tell me what it stands for?:tongue_smilie:

 

Here is alink to their site: http://www.smarrpublishers.com/

[Cornerstone Classical]

Thanks Quiver of 10!;)

[cbollin]

Katherine,

 

MFW just uses a few of those smarr guides, and modifies them and only uses them in ancients year. MFW republishes the modified version of those selections as the literature supplement in AHL. just repeating it for fun. any reason to avoid the kitchen right now.:D

 

-crystal

[Cornerstone Classical]

just repeating it for fun. any reason to avoid the kitchen right now.:D

 

-crystal

 

Glad to know I'm not the only one that uses the WTM forums to be a slacker ! :lol: