Jann in Tx, other math moms: PreAlgebra

[Robin in Tx]

We'll be finishing up Saxon 87 and dd understands everything very well. Her calculation skills are not stellar though (she sometimes forgets the process in long division,etc). But conceptually, she is fine. She can work with variables and understands fractions and percentages quite well.

 

She will be 13 this summer. I am thinking about not letting her go into algebra quite yet. I am actually thinking about doing BJU's pre-algebra, mainly because I hear it is a good text that is a little more difficult than Saxon's pre-algebra.

 

I don't know what we'll use for algebra yet, but right now I don't know if I want her to have another year of maturity before pressing on. Or doesn't one of the Lial's texts have both prealgebra and algebra I in one text?

 

Is Saxon 87 really enough pre-algebra (the new 87), and when do you advise a student to spend a year on pre-algebra *after* a text like the new 87?

 

Thanks!

Robin

[Terabith]

Not Jann, but I think I'd just go onto Algebra. I know that Saxon considers 87 to be sufficient preparation for algebra, and unless she is really struggling with it (which she doesn't seem to be), I'd go ahead and try algebra. You can always stop and go back to something else if it isn't working. But 13/ 8th grade is a very common age for algebra 1.

[Robin in Tx]

Thanks for that advice. Another option I'm considering is ALEKS for the transition. I don't want to waste a year on PreAlgebra, but I don't want to rush and regret later, kwim? I'm just wondering if anyone has any clear, set parameters for determing if a child needs a little more time in PreAlgebra, even if they did okay with a text like 8/7. Or is it pretty much set/determined that if a child passes 8/7 they are definitely ready for Algebra, even if they still have a few weak spots here and there?

 

Thanks so much for responding!

[z2_mom]

you could always take her through the Saxon Algebra 1/2 book. Let her work through the tests--she how she does and stop where she has issues then move into Alg. 1. This is my plan for dd whom is in the new Saxon 87 book right now --I am doing it more because she is young and I want to hold her back a little to mature, she is 10 right now and will be 11 next year. I talked with Saxon and they told me to look at the scores of the last 40 or so lessons in the 87 book. If the child is getting at least an 80-85% then you can easily move onto Alg 1.

 

lynda:)

[Caia]

I would do aleks for a month or two and then reassess your thoughts and options. If you still felt she needed more preparation before algebra you could use a fairly rigorous pre-algebra curriculum, or you could always take algebra at a slower pace.

[Myrtle]

Or is it pretty much set/determined that if a child passes 8/7 they are definitely ready for Algebra, even if they still have a few weak spots here and there?

 

Hey Robin!

 

Remember me?! ;-p

 

I have a copy of Saxon 8/7 and I'm familiar with what's in it. You'll have covered a good chunk of standard American algebra programs by using Saxon 8/7. As for whether the gaps are significant, it seems like it depends on what the gaps are in. For example, mine made horrendous idiotic mistakes when adding fractions, but you get fractions in spades once in algebra and that alone forces him to pay more attention to his arithemetic (which has improved simply because of his acquired skill in algebra)

 

Also factoring polynomials has forced him to focus on things that he didn't focus on before simply because he didn't need to and he's much better at doing thing like factoring integers in arithmetic. On the other hand, if the gaps is something like, "Well I can't remember how to add to fractions with unlike denominators" and the kid is still adding the denominators then they need some more work before heading into agebra.

 

Another useful skill is having experience working with multi-step word problems and being able to "show your work" by writing down a single equation which results in the answer. This would involve the student using parenthesis to indicate order of operations. A student who has facility with this in arithmetic would have a huge load taken off of them once they hit the word problems in algebra.

[Brenda in MA]

Is Saxon 87 really enough pre-algebra (the new 87)?

 

Robin,

 

Well, it's a one-off study, but my son used Math 87 in 7th grade (12 yo.). He even struggled a bit with the last several lessons that are heavy in Algebra. I had him start Saxon's Algebra 1 the following fall at 13 yo., and he did fine with it.

 

If you decide to use another program (besides Saxon) for Algebra 1, I think you'll find that your dd has been introduced to a lot of the topics already via Math 87. That should smooth the transition.

 

HTH,

Brenda

[ncmomo3]

Mine used 8/7 in 6th grade and was fine with it until the last 1/3 of the book and she really began to struggle. She is doing Algebra 1/2 this year just to make sure she was comfortable and confindent in her skills. I think for her, it was a good decision. HTH

[Jann in TX]

My only concern is that you said that she often forgets the process...she will be using long division in the first half of Introductory Algebra--and it will be a tad more complex!

 

Most students understand the concepts in Algebra--90% of mistakes are in the process. If you have looked at the majority of Algebra 1 problems, most can be figured out in your head. This is done with a purpose--so the students can easily check their own work.

 

In Algebra the process is as important (if not MORE important) than getting a correct answer!

 

My gut feeling, from your description, is that your dd IS ready for Algebra 1--she may need to move carefully (a bit slower) in the first chapters that review and expand the last chapters in BCM. Introductory Algebra is a big text. It would be easy to design a program that takes more than one year to work...you could start out slowly and then speed things up when she is ready. When splitting a lesson divide it into pieces using the lesson examples. If a lesson has 5 examples teach/practice the first 3 examples on one day and then teach/practice the remaining ones the second day. By practice I mean working the practice (margin) problems AND the corresponding odd homework problems. If needed you can narrow it down even more and stretch a lesson over 3-4 days... This text was designed for BLOCK scheduling--and it is pretty flexible.

 

HTH