Alison in KY Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I think it's time for me to change directions in some areas. I have a 9 yr old that I'm calling a 3rd grader who doesn't seem to retain (lazy kid) the easiest of grammar rules. When I ask him what X Y Z is he'll say a "person, place, thing, or idea"...then he giggles. Anyway, I've been using Learning Language Arts Through Literature yellow (3rd grade) and I'm a little over half way done with it. I'm thinking about stopping because it's getting into more free writing...like write about this experience, etc.That stuff blows him away. I've heard SWB's cd on writing and it makes total sense to me because I have kids that the writing just doesn't come naturally to. So, now I'm thinking about dropping LLATL (even though it's a great program, just maybe not for us) and going to GWG level 1/2 (which he's already worked in some) and WWE. I had started him with WWE level 2, but then I dropped GWG and WWE to do the LLATL. Clear as mud? So, I'm considering finishing GWG level 1/2 then into level 3 plus WWE level 2...or even level 1 because he struggles with the narration in the level 2. Or, I could try Writing Tales which I think includes grammar and writing? Does writing tales teach with the same theory that WWE has...using dictation/narration without those open ended writing assignments? HELP! I'm in a rut in the language arts area and I just need some program to teach my son grammar and writing. Thanks to all, Alison in KY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 If I could caution you, there's a fine line between laziness and disinterest. If he's 9 and being told to retell models meant for 2nd graders, he could be bored stiff. He might prefer to cover the material in a more perfuntory, less talkative way. My dd isn't keen on grammar either, so we do it and move on. We don't talk about it and grow eloquent, just get in, do our business, and get out. Shurley is working great for us, because it doesn't ask you to like it, just do it, kwim? Guess I threw out two things there. One, I'd make sure the work is age-appropriate, not babyish to him (so he's not giggling and blowing it off). Two, I'd try to find something that fits his personality style and interest level. Even on narration, it could be that it was too hard, or it could be the selection was totally disinteresting. You need wisdom to know the difference. As far as Writing Tales, I like it a lot and dd enjoyed it. It gets the students thinking and has stimulating models. I suggest you print off the samples and use them, see what happens. After trying it for a model or two, you'd have a better feel for how it will work for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Alison, I wouldn't be overly worried about grammar. I think it is more a logic level function to really get the relationships between the different parts of speech. If he is still doing this in 5th grade then I would start to be concerned. Can he do narrations well? I put my 9yo in WWE 1 this year because she can only do narrations if they include every detail possible and if she tells it like a play with direct quotes. :001_huh: I tried multiple approaches and examples to try to teach her to summarize and none of them worked. Now she is on the right track. If he can't do narrations or has had little exposure to them then I would go ahead and consider starting with WWE (which level would depend on where his skills are). But if he can already do narrations well then I would jump into WT. It will continue to summarize and has writing by imitation, so it covers all your bases and falls in line with SWB's philosophy. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison in KY Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 Thanks ladies. Heather, he sounds just like your daughter. Honestly, I don't think anything we've done is babyish at all. We do the GWG level 1/2 and at the age of 8 and 9 it was perfect for him. I told the writer of GWG it shouldn't be grade 1 and 2, but level 1 and 2...because it was perfect for his age. Alison anyone else have an opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddhabelly Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 if you do GWG you should do at least "3." The program can be picked up at any level, and they are GRADES not "levels." In other words, IMO there is no reason to do "4" after "3" if the child has good retention. We did GWG 3 in Grade 3 and then we got 4, but sent it back for GWG 5 because it was too easy for ds. To explain a bit more clearly, each level of GWG (at least through 5) can be begun by a student of that grade with little or no grammar experience. A fourth-grade friend of ours with no prior grammar experience is doing GWG 4 this year with no problems. Julie, (who is not enjoying either IEW or Aesop "B" these days so we are just "writing across the curriculum" and trying to use strong adjectives and strong verbs!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela&4boys Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) My vote would be for the GWG (using it with our 11yo) & WWE (using it with our 8yo) combo. But, I'm biased. ;-) We are presently using WWE Level 1 for our 8yo now and it is a perfect fit. We do it double time though and it's just the right amount of work. I love how WWE gently reinforces FLL, so if you may want to consider it for grammar. I've always liked the idea of a complete LA in theory... it's all there. (We're LLATL drop-outs.)However, after 10+ years of homeschooling, I found I prefer to be able to change out an element if it's not working rather than have to dump a whole program. I know there are many who love the whole programs and they fit their children, but have found through trial and error that they just don't work with my boys (or their mama ;)). hth, Edited January 23, 2009 by angela&4boys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela&4boys Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Honestly, I don't think anything we've done is babyish at all. We do the GWG level 1/2 and at the age of 8 and 9 it was perfect for him. I told the writer of GWG it shouldn't be grade 1 and 2, but level 1 and 2...because it was perfect for his age. :iagree:We are using GWG 4 with 11yo ds and FLL 1/2 (considered GWG 1/2) with 8yo ds. Perfect fits.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison in KY Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Thank's all for the encouragement...I tend to feel like I'm the ONLY one with a 9 yr old doing the lower levels....I thought I was going crazy. BuddhaBelly, I understand what your saying. For us, he's just not into this grammar thing enough that I'll probably do grade 3 GWG...since he can't tell me alot of what he's had in grade 1/2...it's not that I think it's a bad program...it's just a boy who could care less so the more he hears this stuff the more I think he'll figure it out. He's the same with the grammar in LLATL. I've looked at other programs but they looked either too teacher intensive or too writing intensive for him....so I guess I'll stick with what I've got for now So, for today...until someone else writes in with a different plan or curriculum to use :bigear: I will drop his LLATL yellow, and start back into the GWG grade 1/2 book and drop the WWE level 2...which we'd only finished a few lessons from (enough to see his frustration with narration and writing) and go back to WWE level 1...and plan on moving a bit quicker through this...maybe doing 2 pages daily?? Does anyone else have any more advice? HOw many folks are using programs below their kids "assigned" grade level I wonder. Alison in KY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison in KY Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 My vote would be for the GWG (using it with our 11yo) & WWE (using it with our 8yo) combo. But, I'm biased. ;-) We are presently using WWE Level 1 for our 8yo now and it is a perfect fit. We do it double time though and it's just the right amount of work. I love how WWE gently reinforces FLL, so if you may want to consider it for grammar. I've always liked the idea of a complete LA in theory... it's all there. (We're LLATL drop-outs.)However, after 10+ years of homeschooling, I found I prefer to be able to change out an element if it's not working rather than have to dump a whole program. I know there are many who love the whole programs and they fit their children, but have found through trial and error that they just don't work with my boys (or their mama ;)). hth, So how do you use FLL and GWG? We had FLL way back, a few years ago and I liked the idea very much...but for some reason it was one of those things that I just dreaded doing...even though it took 5 or 10 minutes...I guess I'm weird that way. Alison in KY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela&4boys Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) So how do you use FLL and GWG? I use GWG with my 11yo and we'll start IEW soon for him as he tested out of WWE. He reads aloud the lesson to me and we discuss anything he doesn't understand. Sometimes he'll do the first two or so in each exercise beside me before I let him on his own. I use FLL 1/2 and WWE 1 double-time for the 8yo. A day looks like this: We read FLL together (skipping the stories and narration because he does this in WWE and SOTW) often times doing 2 lessons. I have him do any writing for this on a small whiteboard. (He loves this and it mixes it up a little for him as he balks at too much physical writing.) He then does the "Day 1" copywork from WWE, always doing the longer of the two sentences. We discuss the rules (i.e. capitalization) that SWB points out and I encourage him to use his best handwriting. Lastly, we do the "Day" 2 lesson of narration. I read the story, ask him the questions, and he tells me the one thing he remembers. (Although, he's been narrating for nearly two years, so he will often give me 2-3 sentences.) We do this M-TH. On average, it takes us 20 minutes. I remind him that if he is diligent and neat, it will take less time. Sometimes he'll skip a word or forget to capitalize, but most often he does well. On Fridays, he does either a science or history narration on a notebook page. Hope that makes sense. I haven't had my coffee yet. ;) Edited January 23, 2009 by angela&4boys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallory Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Do you have the text for WWE? Then you can speed through the levels by moving ahead when they have completed each part, whether it takes 1 week or 10 weeks. I started both my 7yo and my 9yo with level one and the workbook. My 9yo only ended up doing about 1/3 of the lessons in level 1. I did skip a few lessons for the 7yo, but the length of the passages has caught up to him and we are slowing down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 My 9 year old uses Writing Tales, LLATL, AND GWG 4. They marry quite nicely. When I feel he needs extra practice on a concept introduced to him in Writing Tales or LLATL (which are actually following a similar pattern, only LLATL seems to be just jumping here and there with grammar a bit, I pick up GWG 4 and have him work there. However, we are using WT II, so I am not sure how WT I and GWG 4 would marry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Thank's all for the encouragement...I tend to feel like I'm the ONLY one with a 9 yr old doing the lower levels....I thought I was going crazy. You are not the only one, my 9 & 10 yr olds are using lower level books in some subjects. I just have no experience in any of those grammar/writing programs to help you. We use R&S for grammar and writing strands for writing (though this may be changing in the fall) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison in KY Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 My 9 year old uses Writing Tales, LLATL, AND GWG 4. They marry quite nicely. When I feel he needs extra practice on a concept introduced to him in Writing Tales or LLATL (which are actually following a similar pattern, only LLATL seems to be just jumping here and there with grammar a bit, I pick up GWG 4 and have him work there. However, we are using WT II, so I am not sure how WT I and GWG 4 would marry. Hi Rebecca and wow, you've got alot going on. Originally I started out this year doing a blend with the GWG 1/2, wwe 2 and LLATL yellow...then I thought I'd go crazy. I wanted to do that, just like I wanted to do a blend of MUS and singapore, but Iguess I'm just not woman enough :D I've gotten to a point where I just have to stop and realize I need to do one thing and try to do it well (or just okay) vs doing several great things and being not happy and still not doing it well. I can't believe after four years of hsing I still struggle with keeping everything going, but I just do. So, I'm changing a few directions now (which I do sometimes several times a year) and trying to simplify my life so my 7 and 5 yr old will get some schooling done and they will all have a little bit of history and science. I bought one Heart of Dakota for them to all be combined in...so now I'm just getting the basics and doing their history, science, bible and poetry. I'll feel good once I get my groove on. Alison in KY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testimony Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) My older son completed Writing Tales and GWG 5 with no real grammar experience. I mean I did do KISS grammar along with Kellog and Reed, but after lesson 68, I stopped. So, he just went into GWG 5 cold. He did very well with the program. It explains everything quite well. It is so independent. All I did was check the answers!!;) We did Classical Writing Homer A this summer.:eek: I did not realize how nuts I was to have put my son through that stuff. He did his diagramming and parsing almost perfect. His success is due to GWG 5 and Writing Tales 2. So, overall, my son's grammar lessons were: some formal lessons from KISS grammar in 4th grade, Prima Latina in 3rd grade, and Latina Christiana I in 5th grade. Then we did our first formal grammar with GWG 5 in fifth grade with Writing Tales 2. He went into Classical Writing Homer A. He succeeded in one summer to complete 20 lessons and 17 writing projects. I had him draw the stories for the last three based upon some tips from Writing Tales 2 to help him write those projects in Classical Writing. Just to tell you, I think Writing Tales and Growing With Grammar is a great combination. Blessings, Karen http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony Edited September 9, 2009 by Testimony grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison in KY Posted September 10, 2009 Author Share Posted September 10, 2009 Thank you for your thoughts. I actually just bought Writing Tales 1 and I think it will work for us. I was using WWE 2, but I think he was ready for this. I also am using Easy Grammar 4 now. I tried GWG 4, but it was too much I think? Well, probably because I looked at it and handed it to him and said do it. I should know better, he's not an independent guy and he'll probably still be living at home when he's 30...which is fine by me :D. Easy Grammar also works for him because there is less writing than in GWG.. Alison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allison TX Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Hi Alison. I so understand where you're coming from!:) I have a just turned 10 year old boy (4th grade) that sounds so much like your 9 year old. Grammar and writing have always been a struggle for him. We used most of FLL 1/2 in K-2. Then we tried PLL, R&S 2, and Queens Language Lessons. This year we tried LLATL Orange. I thought it would be a perfect LA program for him, but it was not a good fit. After completing the first unit, I gave him the assessment and he acted like it was written in a foreign language.:confused: He had no retention of anything taught that month. Really, you would think after being taught what a pronoun is for 3 years he would remember it. But he doesn't. It's just not clicking for him yet. I think grammar can be an abstract subject that is hard for certain kids to understand in the grammar years. All that to say, right now we are trying GWG 3 and it is going well. I have GWG 4 as well (older son used last year) and it seemed too advanced. My goal is for him to learn, and retain, some basic grammar without frustrating him. And GWG 3 seems to be doing the trick. Even though it is a grade level "behind". I just added in IEW All Things Fun and Fascinating for writing this week and so far he likes it. If it ends up being too much I will shelve it till next year and just have him keep working on narrations. I know I'm not offering any advice on which program you should choose. I just wanted to let you know that you are not the only one that has a ds who struggles with grammar/writing. And I think it is perfectly acceptable to use materials that are a grade level or two behind if that is what works.:001_smile: Allison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWSJ Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 We use GWG and WWE both for 3rd grade. Everyone is happy with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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