mommy247 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 We are currently using SWR (K, 2nd 4 7 6th). We don't do everything, but we do the log, review the phonograms and rules and take weekly dictation tests etc..... My question is in regard to my K student. We are moving very slowly ( he is rather sharp and not slow) but I want to move him along into feeling like a confident reader. He is decoding words painfully but doing it and doing really well at phonics quiz. Does anyone have any great suggestions for a doing SWR with a beginning reader? I have been looking at All About Spelling also. Can you teach reading with AAS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 We are currently using SWR (K, 2nd 4 7 6th). We don't do everything, but we do the log, review the phonograms and rules and take weekly dictation tests etc..... My question is in regard to my K student. We are moving very slowly ( he is rather sharp and not slow) but I want to move him along into feeling like a confident reader. He is decoding words painfully but doing it and doing really well at phonics quiz. Does anyone have any great suggestions for a doing SWR with a beginning reader? I have been looking at All About Spelling also. Can you teach reading with AAS? Yes you can, it's a complete phonics program, only there are no readers (but they are coming out with readers this spring!). Heather just wrote a post comparing SWR & AAS that you might be interested in. Many parents don't add anything else to AAS because the children learn all of the sounds and rules that apply equally to spelling and reading. The author also uses this method for teaching reading in her private practice. The program starts with phonemic awareness activities and then moves step-by-step into spelling. With this method, anything a child can spell, he or she can read. I didn't have it when my kids were learning to read, but I have really seen a jump in their reading ability and speed since starting it last spring--and they are enjoying reading more now too, I think it's made it easier for them. Merry :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 It would be better to work slowly through SWR than to switch to something else, IMHO, especially something which is not as comprehensive as SWR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 We are currently using SWR (K, 2nd 4 7 6th). We don't do everything, but we do the log, review the phonograms and rules and take weekly dictation tests etc..... My question is in regard to my K student. We are moving very slowly ( he is rather sharp and not slow) but I want to move him along into feeling like a confident reader. He is decoding words painfully but doing it and doing really well at phonics quiz. Does anyone have any great suggestions for a doing SWR with a beginning reader? I have been looking at All About Spelling also. Can you teach reading with AAS? By "Phonics Quiz" I don't know if you are referring to spelling out of the Wise Guide or just being quizzed on the phonograms. SWR does not recommend that the student even begin to try and start reading until after a certain level in WG, I believe A. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) I recently went to a seminar and it was very helpful, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hischool Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I would not use AAS to teach a K student to read. We just started AAS level 1 and in step 1, the student needs to learn all the sounds of the first 26 phonograms. Some phonograms has more than one sound, e.g. y has 4 sounds and a has 3 sounds. I can't imagine having a K student memorize all of this in step 1 if he/she is not reading fairly well already. A learning to read phonics program like 100 easy lessons and progressive phonics will introduce one sound at a time gently and will be a better fit I think. I know the author and AAS affiliates say it can be used to teach reading. However, you can use it does not mean it's the best way to do it. I can see using AAS to do remedial reading with an older student, but definitely not for K IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 (edited) We are currently using SWR (K, 2nd 4 7 6th). We don't do everything, but we do the log, review the phonograms and rules and take weekly dictation tests etc..... My question is in regard to my K student. We are moving very slowly ( he is rather sharp and not slow) but I want to move him along into feeling like a confident reader. He is decoding words painfully but doing it and doing really well at phonics quiz. Does anyone have any great suggestions for a doing SWR with a beginning reader? I have been looking at All About Spelling also. Can you teach reading with AAS? Marry linked my post on the other thread, so will only add that because the lists are groped by sounds, it makes it much easier for my dd to read. It has been a boost to her confidence. Level 1 also only covers a portion of the phonograms and not all 70 as well. I do disagree that AAS can't be used to learn to read. I plan to use it with my ds. Though he might not be the best example, because I started a year ago having him learn the first 26 phonograms. Generally writing them in sand while he said the sounds (doubles as handwriting practice). He knows the first 26 phonograms well. AAS level 1 only expects the child to memorize a few beyond the first 26, so it should be an easy transition. AAS should be a breeze for him. For those who don't have a child who knows the phonograms ahead of time, it doesn't expect complete mastery either. It does have you review any phonograms not mastered at the beginning of every lesson until they are mastered. Because there were a few that have additional sounds (U also says /u/ and I also says /E/, Y also says /E/) including a few beyond the first 26 like CH, my 7yo still has several she reviews daily, and yet we have moved on with the rest of the steps. In fact step 2 works on phonemic awareness and doesn't require knowing the phonograms at all. Step 3 shows how the letter tiles have the same letters and make the same sounds as the cards. Step 4 has you saying a sound and the child identifying the tile that makes that sound, or writing them. I see that as still learning the sounds. Step 5 teaches the short sounds of vowels, and is the first one that begins to assume the child knows the consonants. But even there if a child forgot it wouldn't be terrible to remind them. In addition it works with the same consonants repeatedly, changing out just the vowel sound. I assume the child will need prompting with the vowel sounds because that is more challenging and the point of the exercise is to being to teach them. In a 24 step program it isn't until step 6 that it has a spelling list and that is all CVC or VC words with short a vowel sounds, many of them you have already worked with in the last lesson. Even then I personally don't think it would be a big deal to need to remind a child of some of the letter sounds. If you were needing to remind them of the majority of sounds, then I would take a break and focus on them. But if they only get occasional or troublesome sounds wrong I wouldn't think anything of reminding them. Lesson 7 is CVC or VC short I words, Lesson 8 is CVC or VC short O words, Lesson 9 is short U and lesson 10 is short E. Then it moves on to blends, double consonants and such. Long vowels aren't introduced till lesson 24, the last one. The additional sounds vowels make must be covered in other levels. IMO that isn't a speedy pace, and it does allow time to learn the phonograms without having them mastered ahead of time. My oldest who has no LD's would have done fine with that pace (and even faster). In the end it sounds like you have a philosophical issue with vertical phonics systems, and that is fine. To be honest I have always combined the vertical phonics ideas with a traditional paced program. But I think AAS does just that. Combines a traditional pace and vertical phonics. On the good side that means you eliminate the need to teach a bunch of sight words, but on the other side it does still more more quickly than traditional programs, and some kids just need the slower pace. No phonics program works for every child, and AAS will be no different in that respect. Heather Edited January 23, 2009 by siloam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirtymomma Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Bringing up an old thread to ask Siloam (or anyone else who may know), is there a free list somewhere online where I can find the first 26 phonograms and all of their sounds? I want to get AAS when the 1st reader comes out, but in the meantime, I'd like to start teaching my dd all of the sounds of each of the phonograms. I like your tracing the letters while saying the sounds idea. I've been using Phonics Pathways, but I don't like how many sight words my dd is having to learn now that we're starting to read BOB books. It's just now clicked to me what "vertical phonics" is and why it's valuable. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Bringing up an old thread to ask Siloam (or anyone else who may know), is there a free list somewhere online where I can find the first 26 phonograms and all of their sounds? I want to get AAS when the 1st reader comes out, but in the meantime, I'd like to start teaching my dd all of the sounds of each of the phonograms. I like your tracing the letters while saying the sounds idea. I've been using Phonics Pathways, but I don't like how many sight words my dd is having to learn now that we're starting to read BOB books. It's just now clicked to me what "vertical phonics" is and why it's valuable. Thanks! I am sure it is out there somewhere, but it is just as easy to type out: a-/a/ bath, /A/ lake, /ah/ father b-/b/ bake c-/k/ can, /s/ city d-/d/ dance e-/e/ end, /E/ he f-/f/ fin g-/g/ game, /j/ gym h-/h/ happy i-/i/ lip, /I/ lite, /E/ radio j-/j/ jack k-/k/ king l-/l/ lamp m-/m/ map n-/n/ nap o-/o/ bot, /O/ boat, /OO/ to, /u/ of p-/p/ put qu-queen r-/r/ run s-/s/ sun, /z/ is t-/t/ tan u-/u/ but, /U/ butte, /oo/ put v-/v/ van w-/w/ won x- /ks/ fox y-/y/ yam, /i/ cylinder, /I/ by, /E/ baby z-/z/ zoo Now these will different in different programs, for instance SWR doesn't teach either the o saying /u/ or the y saying /E/, but I haven't found it too difficult for my kids to adapt when I changed it on them. :D The above is the SWR way of writing out sounds. AAS actually uses the correct dictionary marks, but given I don't know how to type them out, the SWR way, with short sounds being lower case and the long sounds being upper case, comes in handy. I love not teaching sight words, and I still follow a traditional short vowels, long vowels, diphthongs sequence for teaching reading. I just can easily explain why sight words are pronounced the way they are and when we do reach a new step my kids are usually already familiar with it. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirtymomma Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Thank you so much! I really appreciate you taking the time to do that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamato3 all-boy boys Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I have been looking at All About Spelling also. Can you teach reading with AAS? It is going very well. We've almost finished the first level. It is now amazing to see all the words he can spell and read stacked in our file box! In the first level, there are only a few steps that I think are more spelling focused than reading focused. At those steps, I focus more on the reading than the spelling with tiles. For example, on step 18, the student learns that we often double f, l, and s with single vowels at the end of a short, one syllable word. Although we practiced this with the tiles, I did not making passing this level dependent upon spelling this correctly. We also use the dictation sentences (phrases, mostly at this level) for his handwriting practice and copywork. Now, whether or not you want to switch from SWR to AAS is up to you, but I'm very pleased with what my ds is accomplishing so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenJewel Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I would not use AAS to teach a K student to read. We just started AAS level 1 and in step 1, the student needs to learn all the sounds of the first 26 phonograms. Some phonograms has more than one sound, e.g. y has 4 sounds and a has 3 sounds. I can't imagine having a K student memorize all of this in step 1 if he/she is not reading fairly well already. A learning to read phonics program like 100 easy lessons and progressive phonics will introduce one sound at a time gently and will be a better fit I think. I know the author and AAS affiliates say it can be used to teach reading. However, you can use it does not mean it's the best way to do it. I can see using AAS to do remedial reading with an older student, but definitely not for K IMO. Although I don't think AAS as written is the best for teaching reading, I do think that teaching the phonograms (including all the sounds) is the first step to teaching reading. And a 5yo child is well capable of memorizing the sounds. Teaching them all the sounds together allows their brain to store the information all together instead of in scattered places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 You could play my phonics concentration game with the sounds he's learned so far: http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/concentrationgam.html My daughter and other young students I've worked with have liked working from a white board at that age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I would not use AAS to teach a K student to read. We just started AAS level 1 and in step 1, the student needs to learn all the sounds of the first 26 phonograms. Some phonograms has more than one sound, e.g. y has 4 sounds and a has 3 sounds. I can't imagine having a K student memorize all of this in step 1 if he/she is not reading fairly well already. A learning to read phonics program like 100 easy lessons and progressive phonics will introduce one sound at a time gently and will be a better fit I think. I know the author and AAS affiliates say it can be used to teach reading. However, you can use it does not mean it's the best way to do it. I can see using AAS to do remedial reading with an older student, but definitely not for K IMO. I didn't use AAS to teach my kids to read (wish I'd known about it then!), but I spent about a year with each of mine mainly teaching them the sounds of all the letters, before starting to really dig into learning how to read. I don't see what AAS does as being that different from how I approached things. Plus, you can work on the first 4 steps of AAS at the same time, so you don't have to teach all of the sounds before showing them segmenting and how to make some beginning basic words. When I taught mine to read, we'd learn a few letters, talk through segmenting, learn how to make words (with paper letter tiles I got from Reading Reflex--we'd have had a ball with the magnet letter tiles then!), played on the white board, learned more letters, etc... The AAS site has some fun tactile ideas in one of the articles too. Most letters only have one sound. The 5 vowels plus y, c, g, and s are the letters that have additional sounds. Many of the additional sounds come up in 1st and 2nd grade readers, in words like: has, is, ice, age, my, I, me/he/she/we, go, do, put, love, mother, baby etc... A child won’t be able to progress very far in reading without knowing the additional sounds (or learning lots of "sight words" that don't need to be taught as sight words). I always taught my kids these sounds as they came up--a more systematic approach like AAS would have helped us. Rather than overwhelming kids, I think knowing the sounds actually frees kids to let them into the "secret code" of how our language works. (My son especially would have liked this--he hates when info is held back, LOL, he feels cheated & like some curriculum writers don't want him to learn--he actually said that about a math curriculum at the end of his 1st grade year!). But I do think it will make more sense to people when she comes out with the manual on teaching reading! Merry :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Mom247, where are you at in the word lists? You need to read over the pertinent sections in SWR and look at the enrichments in the early lists of the Wise Guide. She instructs you to make flashcards using his words and have him practice reading them. When my dd was at that stage, I wrote sentences using her words onto little booklets, a sentence on each page, which she then illustrated after reading. It was adorable and fun! He also should be reading in his log, going across the page. A student learning to read with SWR needs to practice, practice, practice reading his words. He doesn't need to worry about other reading until he gets past list I2. Until that point, just focus on having him read his spelling words. If you've passed that point and it still hasn't clicked, I would back up and go back to the beginning. Have you given him a diagnostic lately? How is he doing? I went back to the beginning *3* times with my dd when she was that age, so I know the benefit of it. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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