Lady Q Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Confession time: I'm horribly non-musical. I like music, it's on at home pretty much all day long, I like to sing (loudly, so I can drown out my kids' voices as they clap their hands over their ears and scream, "Stop, Mommy!"), but I can't even clap a beat right, get completely glazed when musical people start talking about "keys" and "chords" and "pitch", and have very poor musical memory. That said, I'd like my kids to have a fighting chance to develop musical talents (which, if they have any, come from their dad, not me!). Do you have recommendations for a curriculum/program/CD/grimoire/what-have-you that would serve as a gentle introduction to music appreciation and techniques at a K-level? Thanks so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricaB Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 http://www.giamusic.com/products/P-5880.cfm This would be perfect for you. The whole package is $89, but you don't have to buy the whole thing. I will tell you that I have 2 degrees in music only to say that I haven't found a better program beyond Kindermusik (which I spent five years doing with my kiddos). If you don't want to do it by yourself, go with Kindermusik, but First Steps in Music is a great program that will have audio CD's so you are not alone. Oh ya, it is written by a college professors that wanted to give their students a good start in teaching this age group. You too, will find it very helpful even without a previous background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAberlin Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 God made music http://www.praisehymninc.com/god_made_music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpidarkomama Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I taught classroom music forever before I retired when I started having kids. :) I have so many resources, but not at my brain's fingertips when these questions come up. I did want to recommend one resource that would be TERRIFIC for parents with little, no, or lots of musical background. There's a book called Kids Can Listen, Kids Can Move that has terrific outlines for doing movement to (mostly) classical compositions. It's great for pre/K/elem. West Music (where the link goes) is also a wonderful resource for all kinds of musical resources. I've been offering a little music class (Orff-Schulwerk based) to three of my Kindergarten daughter's friends. I'm not charging tuition for it; it's just great to have the opportunity to do the class with my daughter. And with hand-picked students it's a dream job! :) We're using a TERRIFIC curriculum called Gameplan. You do have to know music well though, and it's also probably costs more than most people would want to spend on a music curriculum ($90). You don't need to buy the charts and visuals. All the visuals are included in the back of the book, and any music you need you can just download from somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Q Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 Thanks so much, everyone. It's hard to make a choice right away (my oldest is only 4; I've still got time, right?). I might just let dh make the call. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Honestly, I think this is something I would be inclined to outsource to a Music Together/ Musikgarten/ Kindermusik class. I think it would be a lot easier to sing/ dance/ play along to the recordings that you would get from a class if you've first gotten to see the teacher leading activities with the songs, you know? It helps so much to have seen things modeled. Honestly, I'm a music teacher and I have a ton of resources, but I outsource music. It also just works so much better with a group too. And the girls respond better to a group and outside teacher than to me at home. Dancing and playing and singing just really should be a communal experience. Of course, I'm very involved in their class, and we sing all the time at home, and do stuff both from their classes and just in general. But none of us are musical geniuses here. But, we have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpidarkomama Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 That's why I LOVE the free group class I'm offering for my daughter and her friends. I really hope I can manage to continue that through their schooling, and offer the same to the younger siblings. We're having such a good time, and their music skills are rapidly developing. It's a dream job, for sure! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellMom Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 What does everyone think about Beethoven Lives Upstairs? Is the CD enough or would you need the book that accompanies it? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabrett Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) If you want your dc to be musical, they need good models to listen too. Just like in classical education, you read good books so your dc will develop a since of language and style. If all you read to your dc is junk, they will like junk and will only want to read and write junk. Music is the same way. Whether or not you buy a music curricula for your dc you NEED to have your dc listening to quality music literature and performers. For young children I would suggest singers like Charlotte Church, Hayley Westenra, Vienna Boys Choir, Celtic Women, Irish Tenors, Sarah Brightman, Josh Groban...ect. Also include orchestral music form composers such as Motzart... Movie sound tracks are good too, especially John Williams (Star Wars, Superman...) If you can't sing, don't sing when having your dc listen to good music. Encourage your dc to sing with the recordings. You dc need to hear the good model not the bad (sorry:blushing:). Edited January 10, 2009 by Tabrett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 If you can't sing, don't sing when having you dc listen to good music. Encourage you dc to sing with the recordings. You dc need to hear the good model not the bad (sorry:blushing:). I have to say that I STRONGLY disagree with that statement. I believe strongly that all children are born with musical aptitude, just as all children are born with the ability to learn to speak. The key to developing this is an early environment that supports this musical learning. You learn to make music by MAKING it, just as a child learning to speak must babble and participate actively in language rather than just watching it from a box. Without a PERSON to interact with him, he will not learn to speak. (Children can NOT learn their first language without a live model. It's the same thing with music. Kids can't learn to sing and be musical from a recording. It just doesn't work. They need a real life model. Young children learn best from their parents, since they are the people they most want to emulate. Their parents interacting musically with them and modeling singing and dancing is far more important than perfect form or rhythm. While it's important for parents to speak with good grammar, I'd much rather teach a kindergartener whose parents have bad grammar than one who has not spoken to him at all out of fear of teaching him poor grammar and has instead just turned on the tv in the hopes that he would learn to speak grammatically from it. The former child will need some practice with correct forms. The latter child would be unlikely to ever develop anything approaching functional speech. So, anyway, I think parents need to interact musically with their kids. Sing, dance, play instruments. By all means, listen to music too. But don't be afraid to sing along. A class is just nice because it provides modeling for the parents on interacting musically. But your children are going to look to you rather than the teacher. Beethoven Lives Upstairs is a great recording. It exposes kids to classical music and has nice biographical information. But it's not something that will help your children develop musical ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I have to say that I STRONGLY disagree with that statement. I believe strongly that all children are born with musical aptitude, just as all children are born with the ability to learn to speak. The key to developing this is an early environment that supports this musical learning. You learn to make music by MAKING it, just as a child learning to speak must babble and participate actively in language rather than just watching it from a box. Without a PERSON to interact with him, he will not learn to speak. (Children can NOT learn their first language without a live model. It's the same thing with music. Kids can't learn to sing and be musical from a recording. It just doesn't work. They need a real life model. Young children learn best from their parents, since they are the people they most want to emulate. Their parents interacting musically with them and modeling singing and dancing is far more important than perfect form or rhythm. While it's important for parents to speak with good grammar, I'd much rather teach a kindergartener whose parents have bad grammar than one who has not spoken to him at all out of fear of teaching him poor grammar and has instead just turned on the tv in the hopes that he would learn to speak grammatically from it. The former child will need some practice with correct forms. The latter child would be unlikely to ever develop anything approaching functional speech. So, anyway, I think parents need to interact musically with their kids. Sing, dance, play instruments. By all means, listen to music too. But don't be afraid to sing along. A class is just nice because it provides modeling for the parents on interacting musically. But your children are going to look to you rather than the teacher. Beethoven Lives Upstairs is a great recording. It exposes kids to classical music and has nice biographical information. But it's not something that will help your children develop musical ability. While I agree that dc need live music models, I think a parent singing off key is analagous to a parent speaking with incorrect grammer. It's better to have a correct model through a recording than no correct model at all. I don't think parents need to be classicly trained musicians to teach their own children music, but it does take some time and effort -like teaching math for the "non-mathy" moms. My dh has NO ear for music and I don't let him sing solfegge to my dc - he tried once:tongue_smilie::lol: Singing for the fun of it -yes. Singing to teach is my territory. My advice for K level music is a gentle intro into classical music (if it's not normal in the home to begin with). Pick a composer (Mozart perhaps) and play it every day for a week while dc does artwork, plays with playdoh -something quite but expressive. (don't make a dc sit and just listen quite yet) Check out a book about the composer for kids from the library, and pick another composer for the next week...rinse, repeat... Next, incorporate the basic musical concepts into other aspects of learning. High and low, fast and slow, long and short, soft and loud. Explore ways to make high/low sounds on the piano, recorder, voice...etc, etc... Listen for these concepts in the music in your home and talk about it. No need for musical terminology yet, though it doesn't hurt. Keep your piano in tune if you have one - your dc's ears will tune to it - it's important! If that's all you did before starting piano lessons in 1st or 2nd grade, your dc will have a fighting chance imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabrett Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I have to say that I STRONGLY disagree with that statement. I believe strongly that all children are born with musical aptitude, just as all children are born with the ability to learn to speak. The key to developing this is an early environment that supports this musical learning. You learn to make music by MAKING it, just as a child learning to speak must babble and participate actively in language rather than just watching it from a box. Without a PERSON to interact with him, he will not learn to speak. (Children can NOT learn their first language without a live model. It's the same thing with music. Kids can't learn to sing and be musical from a recording. It just doesn't work. They need a real life model. Young children learn best from their parents, since they are the people they most want to emulate. Their parents interacting musically with them and modeling singing and dancing is far more important than perfect form or rhythm. While it's important for parents to speak with good grammar, I'd much rather teach a kindergartener whose parents have bad grammar than one who has not spoken to him at all out of fear of teaching him poor grammar and has instead just turned on the tv in the hopes that he would learn to speak grammatically from it. The former child will need some practice with correct forms. The latter child would be unlikely to ever develop anything approaching functional speech. So, anyway, I think parents need to interact musically with their kids. Sing, dance, play instruments. By all means, listen to music too. But don't be afraid to sing along. A class is just nice because it provides modeling for the parents on interacting musically. But your children are going to look to you rather than the teacher. Beethoven Lives Upstairs is a great recording. It exposes kids to classical music and has nice biographical information. But it's not something that will help your children develop musical ability. If the live model can't do it properly the dc is not going to do it properly. I'm a horrible writer. I'm not going to have my dc copy my composition as copywork. I will find the best compositions from the best writers for my children to copy and model. I'm also not going to try to rewrite an authors composition for my children to copy. I might try to rewrite it from my own satisfaction, but not for a model for my dc. These were tips give to me when I was in college earning a music degree. I have witnessed what children sound like when a parent can't carry a tune. For example: When My oldest dd was 3, she was sitting in the car with another 3 yo who's mother couldn't carry a tune, period. My dd and the other child sang the ABC song. My dd sang every note in tune, the other child sang it all on one note. The other child's dad was very musical, but the mom was the one who taught him the song. What I am suggesting is also supported by the Suzuki Method. You are to listen to the Cd's as part of you training, not your parent trying to play the instrument for you to hear the song. I'm not saying that a child's mother shouldn't sing. What I am saying is if you are listening to Charlotte Church, let your dc listen to Charlotte Church and not you drowning her out while singing out of tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I agree, listening for a purpose (like to classical music or something specific) is better to do with a recording. I would agree that a parent who can't sing shouldn't sing solfege to a child. But, I think it is analogous to learning a language via recording. Good grammar can be taught from television. Vocabulary can be enhanced. Even second languages can be taught via tv. But if the original idea of language hasn't been taught via live person, it doesn't work. But, while they shouldn't teach solfege, I think even non musical parents should sing, dance. Do SOMETHING musical. It lays the all important groundwork. It's the parents who teach their children to love music by modeling loving it themselves, even if they aren't good at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 If the live model can't do it properly the dc is not going to do it properly. I'm not saying that a child's mother shouldn't sing. What I am saying is if you are listening to Charlotte Church, let your dc listen to Charlotte Church and not you drowning her out while singing out of tune. :iagree: But, I think it is analogous to learning a language via recording. Good grammar can be taught from television. Vocabulary can be enhanced. Even second languages can be taught via tv. But if the original idea of language hasn't been taught via live person, it doesn't work. I agree, and that is why I don't try and teach my dc Spanish off the cuff at home by myself LOL! In order for me to teach it, *I* have to sit and learn it myself. I'm just chuckling inside at the thought of me spouting off random syllables that sound like Spanish (to me HAHA) and patting myself on the back for doing SOMETHING "Spanishy" today. :tongue_smilie::lol: It's better to turn to a recording imho. Then, I can pick up a few words here and there and learn along with my dc....and turn them loose with a *real* teacher when they are ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Q Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 I'm planning on having my ds4 take music lessons in a year or two (I'm really talking up the wonders of the violin to him, lol). In the meantime, I just want them to be exposed to good music, and know basic things like clapping the beat, recognize low/high pitch and soft/loud music. Oh, yeah, and sing. Outsourcing music at this point is not an option. What with library story time, our homeschool group, ds4's gymnastics class and the romp'n'stomp program at a local gym, we're out of the house way too much for this homebody mama! :001_huh: However, one of the moms in my homeschool group is musical (sings well, plays cello). I wonder if I could talk her into doing music classes? Great discussion. ~Rabia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Q Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 If you want your dc to be musical, they need good models to listen too. Just like in classical education, you read good books so your dc will develop a since of language and style. If all you read to your dc is junk, they will like junk and will only want to read and write junk. Music is the same way. Whether or not you buy a music curricula for your dc you NEED to have your dc listening to quality music literature and performers. For young children I would suggest singers like Charlotte Church, Hayley Westenra, Vienna Boys Choir, Celtic Women, Irish Tenors, Sarah Brightman, Josh Groban...ect. Also include orchestral music form composers such as Motzart... Movie sound tracks are good too, especially John Williams (Star Wars, Superman...) If you can't sing, don't sing when having your dc listen to good music. Encourage your dc to sing with the recordings. You dc need to hear the good model not the bad (sorry:blushing:). Thanks for the recommendations. My kids end up listening to a lot of classical music (Mozart, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Vivaldi--because I like those composers!) and a lot of Celtic-type stuff (I like Susan MacKeown and Loreena McKennit; my husband puts on Great Big Sea and The Tannahill Weavers). We also like adventure movie soundtracks, like Lord of the Rings or Pirates of the Caribbean. I get the Classical Kids CDs from the library every now and again, we've also read and enjoyed books about the orcherstra (like Zin Zin Zin, Violin). Once we picked up Can You Hear It? , fondly remembered in our home for introducing us to Rossini's cat duet (my dd2 calls it the "meow girls"!). So, we do end up listening to and commenting on a lot of music, but it's not systematic and never feels like I'm doing enough. I feel like I have a very short window of time to maximize my kids' musical potential and it's slowly closing. :P ~Rabia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama2two Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I have a 4.5 year old and 3 year old. We do Kindermusik and love it, I highly recommend it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) http://www.giamusic.com/products/P-5880.cfm This would be perfect for you. The whole package is $89, but you don't have to buy the whole thing. I will tell you that I have 2 degrees in music only to say that I haven't found a better program beyond Kindermusik (which I spent five years doing with my kiddos). If you don't want to do it by yourself, go with Kindermusik, but First Steps in Music is a great program that will have audio CD's so you are not alone. Oh ya, it is written by a college professors that wanted to give their students a good start in teaching this age group. You too, will find it very helpful even without a previous background. Is there anything in this program that involves playing instruments? If not, then what/how could I add that? Is this something my 7 year old and 2 year old could do together, do you think? Any other suggestions that would include dancing, singing and instruments? Edited September 10, 2009 by Lovedtodeath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 These were tips give to me when I was in college earning a music degree. I have witnessed what children sound like when a parent can't carry a tune. For example: When My oldest dd was 3, she was sitting in the car with another 3 yo who's mother couldn't carry a tune, period. My dd and the other child sang the ABC song. My dd sang every note in tune, the other child sang it all on one note. The other child's dad was very musical, but the mom was the one who taught him the song. What I am suggesting is also supported by the Suzuki Method. You are to listen to the Cd's as part of you training, not your parent trying to play the instrument for you to hear the song. This is OT, but following what you typed above... My oldest two play cello and viola/violin respectively. Oldest started Suzuki method (with hours of daily listening to the CDs) 5 years ago. Middle child started 4 years ago... so you know we've had years of listening to the CDs every day and daily practice. The older two are pretty good musicians for their age, even among Suzuki-trained kids. BUT my youngest, who has been listening to the recordings and his sister/brother practicing daily since before he was born, CANNOT carry a tune. He can't clap a rhythm. His sister started playing the viola when she was younger than he is now. She had NO trouble singing the alphabet song *in tune.* He can't even sing it to the right rhythm, and we've all been singing it to him since he was a baby. (He DOES know his alphabet letters well, though. heh heh) Dd was also playing the Twinkles in mere weeks (meaning that her intonation and rhythm were obviously very strong at 3 years old). I had always attributed that to the fact that she had been soaking up those skills through all that listening and her older brother's example. So... if you go with the theory that children will be able to musically copy what they hear... WHAT is going on with my 3 year old??? (Sorry to interrupt the thread.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmwife Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 I really like the Calvert 'Melody Lane' videos. Also, I signed up my 5yo & youngers up for Music Together class this fall. We sing every morning as we start schooltime. It's a wonderful way to start the day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyndie Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 I recently bought The Story of the Orchestra for my older dd. She loves music and recently expressed an interested in classical music. This book is wonderful. There is a CD that plays a peice of music from whichever composer you're reading about that day. The days page is short, simple and fun. Takes no longer than 5 minutes a day although we can use youtube to further explore and I do have another more advanced composer book to supplement. But I would highly recommend that book/cd. It's inexpensive and is a great intro to music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.