Apples and Pears and Dancing Bears

[busymama7]

My two kids ages 10 and almost 12 have had a rocky foundation due to me being sick.  We've mostly used The Good and the Beautiful but they are probably dyslexic (older brother is diagnosed so I'm aware of the signs) and really its not a great program for that. I know that but I love it so much and keep trying to make it work.

The almost 12 year old is in level 4.  The spelling is WAY beyond his ability.  The reading is pushing him but he definitely is missing some decoding skills as he mostly guesses at harder/longer words.  

The 10 year old is in level 2 and its about right.   She can keep up with the spelling so far but having just done level 3 last year with her brother I know next year isn't going to work for her.

So I'm looking at spelling to add on top (I will skip the spelling in TGTB).  I posted last week and someone suggested apples and pears.  I have it in my cart but I cant figure out if I'm just being impulsive.  I have Spell to Write and Read which I used for my oldest 5, 2 of which are dyslexic.  I cant seem to get myself to do it again.  Its so dull and so much work for me.  I used AAR and a bit of AAS for some middle kids but I don't like that either.  

I'm ok knowing that after 21 years and 9 kids sometimes I need to switch curriculum for my sanity.  I've done it before.  I think I'm ok trying the spelling.  They definitely need more work there and this seems like an ok balance of needing work from me but not a crazy level and no moving pieces.  If the reading practice would also help them then I am ok trying that too.  But its the beginning of the school year and I'm already looking at new stuff which seems crazy.    We are already skipping most of the writing in TGTB 4 because he will use IEW next year and that has been so effective for my kids.  So at this point we would be doing a different spelling and skipping the writing and adding additional reading practice?  It would be some reading, some geography and the grammar left in TGTB.  I have no issue just using the pieces that make sense to use but also I wonder if the reading is that good that its worth adding it?  Older one tested into the fast track.  Younger one barely didn't.  

The reviews are so mixed.  Some people hate the stories.  Some people really hate the spelling.  AHHHHHH

[Masers]

Okay. I have a similar issue. I also love TGATB, especially for younger kids, but it got to the point where it wasn’t working well for my 12 year old this year. He is a struggling speller and writer, and he was doing level 6, which was fine for grammar and literature but beyond his capabilities in spelling and writing.

So…for this year, at least, I crossed out everything in TGATB except grammar and the reading assignments/questions. I got Sequential Spelling instead, as well as a very basic writing program called “Just Write.” 

I learned my lesson, though. I have known for years that TGATB probably isn’t a great fit for my kids (and probably many kids), because of differing skills/readiness in different areas of language arts. For instance, right now, in addition to my 12 year old who has uneven L.A. skills, I  also have a first grader using level one and the reading is WAY too easy for him—he’s reading middle grade chapter books, so these little phonics readers are way below his level. However, the spelling/grammar portions are about right. My fourth-grader is using level three. He is very interesting to me, because he’s a great writer—he intuitively picked up all the mechanics of it, and writes stories for fun that are honestly very good and above what I would expect for his grade. HOWEVER, he is an atrocious speller. Reading is fine. So, it just feels like…why am I using this curriculum when only bits and pieces really work for my kids, and I have to sub or tweak everything to work? Or theyr’e either breezing through stuff that’s too easy or struggling with stuff that’s too hard? 

Next year, I will be using different spelling, writing, grammar, and literature components. It sounded overwhelming and annoying to me years ago, but at this point, I think I’ve kind of figured things out a little more.

In your situation, it sounds like you just need to shore up those foundational skills. I would forgo TGATB and stop trying to force it. (I know, I really do enjoy using it as well, and it is a lovely, easy-to-use curriculum!!) Go back to the basics for each kid and meet them where they are. (Or, you know, like you said—scratch out what doesn’t work, and substitute what does! It’s what I’m doing this year, too, and it’s working as a temporary measure!)

Reading: Explode the Code has been great for helping with phonics and decoding. I would also consider All About Reading again, even though I know you said you didn’t like it. Maybe Logic of English? Happy Cheetah? 

Spelling: I have also heard Apples and Pears is a great curriculum, so that might be a good place to start. I would also highly recommend Sequential Spelling. It has been working very well for my struggling speller. I didn’t really like AAS either. 

Writing: Sounds Iike you’ll be doing IEW next year, and skipping it this year. If you do want to consider subbing writing, maybe look into the Just Write workbooks? They’ve been okay so far. I think they’ll get the job done. I also looked at Rod and Staff, IEW, EIW, Jump In, but…Idk. Writing has been hard for me. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything that I just LOVED. Maybe also consider the Writing Without Tears? That looked like it had potential, but it only goes up to level 5, so I’m a little late with that for my oldest. 

[busymama7]

34 minutes ago, Masers said:

Okay. I have a similar issue. I also love TGATB, especially for younger kids, but it got to the point where it wasn’t working well for my 12 year old this year. He is a struggling speller and writer, and he was doing level 6, which was fine for grammar and literature but beyond his capabilities in spelling and writing.

So…for this year, at least, I crossed out everything in TGATB except grammar and the reading assignments/questions. I got Sequential Spelling instead, as well as a very basic writing program called “Just Write.” 

I learned my lesson, though. I have known for years that TGATB probably isn’t a great fit for my kids (and probably many kids), because of differing skills/readiness in different areas of language arts. For instance, right now, in addition to my 12 year old who has uneven L.A. skills, I  also have a first grader using level one and the reading is WAY too easy for him—he’s reading middle grade chapter books, so these little phonics readers are way below his level. However, the spelling/grammar portions are about right. My fourth-grader is using level three. He is very interesting to me, because he’s a great writer—he intuitively picked up all the mechanics of it, and writes stories for fun that are honestly very good and above what I would expect for his grade. HOWEVER, he is an atrocious speller. Reading is fine. So, it just feels like…why am I using this curriculum when only bits and pieces really work for my kids, and I have to sub or tweak everything to work? Or theyr’e either breezing through stuff that’s too easy or struggling with stuff that’s too hard? 

Next year, I will be using different spelling, writing, grammar, and literature components. It sounded overwhelming and annoying to me years ago, but at this point, I think I’ve kind of figured things out a little more.

In your situation, it sounds like you just need to shore up those foundational skills. I would forgo TGATB and stop trying to force it. (I know, I really do enjoy using it as well, and it is a lovely, easy-to-use curriculum!!) Go back to the basics for each kid and meet them where they are. (Or, you know, like you said—scratch out what doesn’t work, and substitute what does! It’s what I’m doing this year, too, and it’s working as a temporary measure!)

Reading: Explode the Code has been great for helping with phonics and decoding. I would also consider All About Reading again, even though I know you said you didn’t like it. Maybe Logic of English? Happy Cheetah? 

Spelling: I have also heard Apples and Pears is a great curriculum, so that might be a good place to start. I would also highly recommend Sequential Spelling. It has been working very well for my struggling speller. I didn’t really like AAS either. 

Writing: Sounds Iike you’ll be doing IEW next year, and skipping it this year. If you do want to consider subbing writing, maybe look into the Just Write workbooks? They’ve been okay so far. I think they’ll get the job done. I also looked at Rod and Staff, IEW, EIW, Jump In, but…Idk. Writing has been hard for me. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything that I just LOVED. Maybe also consider the Writing Without Tears? That looked like it had potential, but it only goes up to level 5, so I’m a little late with that for my oldest. 

I have been through 7 kids with IEW.  It really works for struggling writers but also refines natural writers (I had both).  My kids are confident writers despite their disabilities and find college essays the easiest part of college.  Considering how much most of them struggled with reading and writing, it really has been amazing.

I have used sequential spelling for the two just older than these two and they had a hard time understanding the reader.  Did you do it with or without the online portion?

I haven't used explode the code.  I didn't know it went up this high?  Like they are both reading but need help with longer words.  I really cant do all about reading again.  I've looked at  Logic of English but it overwhelms me for some reason. 

 I used to use all different components and in some ways it is easier.  I just love the company and their mission and I like so much of it.  I will definitely keep using it for high school because I've been able to get all my kids to that level just fine by then.  Its this stage I'm struggling with.

[Masers]

1 hour ago, busymama7 said:

I have been through 7 kids with IEW.  It really works for struggling writers but also refines natural writers (I had both).  My kids are confident writers despite their disabilities and find college essays the easiest part of college.  Considering how much most of them struggled with reading and writing, it really has been amazing.

I have used sequential spelling for the two just older than these two and they had a hard time understanding the reader.  Did you do it with or without the online portion?

I haven't used explode the code.  I didn't know it went up this high?  Like they are both reading but need help with longer words.  I really cant do all about reading again.  I've looked at  Logic of English but it overwhelms me for some reason. 

 I used to use all different components and in some ways it is easier.  I just love the company and their mission and I like so much of it.  I will definitely keep using it for high school because I've been able to get all my kids to that level just fine by then.  Its this stage I'm struggling with.

That’s so great to hear about IEW. I’m totally overwhelmed when I look at their website, and I don’t want to invest in it without understanding how it even works. I think one of my friends uses it IRL, so I need to see if she’ll let me look through it and explain it! But my son struggles with writing to the point that I’m suspecting dysgraphia. I mean, probably not, since his handwriting is just fine, but he has the HARDEST time getting his thoughts to paper! It’s like his mind goes completely blank. 

we do not use the online portion of sequential spelling. I just give him the list of words every day to spell. If he gets it wrong, we stop immediately and he writes out the word in two different colors, using one color for the word family and the other color for the other letters. So, like, today he missed opportune and we were doing the “une” family. So he rewrote it using une in blue, and oppor in purple. I honestly don’t even know if I’m doing it correctly, but that’s what I gathered from the instructions in the parent book. Idk. It seems to be working. 

I know Explode the Code is geared for younger kids, but I had my 12 year old doing it until just lately…he just finished book 8. For him, I did it to see if it would help with spelling. Since it’s kind of chunking sounds and putting patterns together (like sequential spelling, in some ways). My 4th grader is still using them, too. He’s a good reader, but he had some phonics issues when learning and I figured the extra practice can’t hurt. 

I love TGATB too. We are using it for math for my 1st and 4th grader, and I felt like it prepared my oldest well for pre-algebra this year. And I’ll probably keep using the language arts for my last child when she starts school for the younger grades, but I just feel like it’s kind of silly to use for kids who are really uneven.

good luck! Hope you figure out something that works really well for your kiddos!  

 

[Clarita]

1 hour ago, busymama7 said:

I haven't used explode the code.  I didn't know it went up this high?  Like they are both reading but need help with longer words. 

Explode the code only really does multisyllabic words in 7 and 8. There are some multisyallabic words in 6 because things like feather is technically a multisyllabic word. Suffixes and endings don't get covered until level 8 (which is their last level). Friends of mine move from Explode the Code into Megawords and that deals mostly with longer words and how they are put together. I use the reading sentences as dictation sentences instead to make it more of a spelling curriculum rather than a reading curriculum. (I guess there's a SpellWell curriculum that is Explode the Code spelling but, looking at the samples I prefer Explode the Code and making this minor tweak.) 

[busymama7]

1 hour ago, Masers said:

That’s so great to hear about IEW. I’m totally overwhelmed when I look at their website, and I don’t want to invest in it without understanding how it even works. I think one of my friends uses it IRL, so I need to see if she’ll let me look through it and explain it! But my son struggles with writing to the point that I’m suspecting dysgraphia. I mean, probably not, since his handwriting is just fine, but he has the HARDEST time getting his thoughts to paper! It’s like his mind goes completely blank. 

we do not use the online portion of sequential spelling. I just give him the list of words every day to spell. If he gets it wrong, we stop immediately and he writes out the word in two different colors, using one color for the word family and the other color for the other letters. So, like, today he missed opportune and we were doing the “une” family. So he rewrote it using une in blue, and oppor in purple. I honestly don’t even know if I’m doing it correctly, but that’s what I gathered from the instructions in the parent book. Idk. It seems to be working. 

I know Explode the Code is geared for younger kids, but I had my 12 year old doing it until just lately…he just finished book 8. For him, I did it to see if it would help with spelling. Since it’s kind of chunking sounds and putting patterns together (like sequential spelling, in some ways). My 4th grader is still using them, too. He’s a good reader, but he had some phonics issues when learning and I figured the extra practice can’t hurt. 

I love TGATB too. We are using it for math for my 1st and 4th grader, and I felt like it prepared my oldest well for pre-algebra this year. And I’ll probably keep using the language arts for my last child when she starts school for the younger grades, but I just feel like it’s kind of silly to use for kids who are really uneven.

good luck! Hope you figure out something that works really well for your kiddos!  

 

I use the videos to teach IEW and I don't start until at least 7th grade. I don't require really any writing before then. Copy work and spelling and such but not composition.  IEW is brilliant at helping them with that block because it removes the need to write their thoughts, at first.  

[Masers]

16 hours ago, busymama7 said:

I use the videos to teach IEW and I don't start until at least 7th grade. I don't require really any writing before then. Copy work and spelling and such but not composition.  IEW is brilliant at helping them with that block because it removes the need to write their thoughts, at first.  

That’s great. I’m definitely going to look into that for him next year. Thanks!

[Lovinglife234]

For that age I would definitely consider megawords.  It will tackle reading and spelling longer words.

 I would also consider if your children love tgatb as much as you do.  I felt attached to using tgatb for a few years and really worried they’d miss out on something if we didn’t do it.  No other curriculum had that same control over me.  I’ve seen it with friends too.  So odd.

One thing I did instead of trying to fit in random parts of tgatb was to find ways to add beauty into our days that wasn’t curriculum based.  My children do a lot of baking and cooking.  We’ve done painting together, nature walks, beautiful geography games (trekking the world/national parks), and lots of other games.  For my younger children (and when the older children were younger) we added in lots of picture books and crafts as well.

Edited Thursday at 12:12 PM by Lovinglife234

[8filltheheart]

Apples and Pears is the only spelling program that actually helped my severe dyslexics retain any correct spelling.  There are free online placement tests, so I would use them.  My first child who used A&P was older.  I can't remember exactly anymore, but I think he was probably in 6th grade and we started about 1/2 way through level A.  Bc he was older, we made it through D around 8th grade.  Then we moved into How To Teach Spelling (I only use the the TM and call out the words/phrases/sentences starting around pg 36.)    

FWIW, A&P is very similar in approach to SRA's Spelling Mastery. Spelling Mastery: Teaching Children to Spell

[BusyMom5]

I have never used an all in one LA because my kids have all had skills all over the place!  I did use Apples and Pears with my struggling speaker and I think it helped more than any other program she tried (she's in college now, not a natural speaker but knows how to use spell check).  Funnily, she's also a gifted writer, wrote novels in high school, excellent papers in college.