Spelling/Phonics question

[sweet2ndchance]

Ds made a spelling error recently that has me a bit puzzled. He wanted to spell the word "use". I told him to sound it out and I would help him, expecting to remind him that it was "s" and not "z". He gets ready to write the first sound and writes a letter "y". I asked him why he used "y" for the first sound and he says because that's the first sound I hear, /y/ /oo/ /z/

I mean I can see where he came up with it. I ended up just telling him there are only two sounds not three, /u/ /z/, and there is a silent e to make the u say its name but how was he to know there were only two sounds without being told? I can't think of any rule or convention that would help him here other than just visual memory of the word.

Thoughts?

[Clarita]

My opinion is really there is no way for him to know. That's when I go over that written English isn't completely phonetic or that words are pronounced in different ways depending on the accent in English. So we just have to remember how things are spelled sometimes or know that our pronunciation isn't "correct".

This occurred for us for 'tr' words apparently in our region we pronounce 'tr' more like /chr/ so he was writing words like chrain instead of train. I made a point later to pronounce 'tr' words as /tr/, but he still had to memorize that we do this weird thing of saying 'tr' as /chr/.   

[Nichola]

I don’t know if other phonics/spelling curricula go into this, but All About Spelling/All About Reading does. We recently did a lesson that covered the two sounds of long /u/—the “yu” sound like in cube and the “oo” sound like in tube. There is some memorization involved with knowing which one to use, but I think it is helpful for kids to recognize that there are actually two different sounds for long /u/. 

[sweet2ndchance]

3 hours ago, Nichola said:

I don’t know if other phonics/spelling curricula go into this, but All About Spelling/All About Reading does. We recently did a lesson that covered the two sounds of long /u/—the “yu” sound like in cube and the “oo” sound like in tube. There is some memorization involved with knowing which one to use, but I think it is helpful for kids to recognize that there are actually two different sounds for long /u/. 

I actually have my AAS manuals sitting on my desk. I was trying to find if they had any suggestions for students breaking down the sounds too far as ds did. I couldn't find any suggestions though. He knows the sounds of letters and most phonograms, but how was he to know that the "yu" sound is only one letter making the sound "yu" versus a word like "you" or "youth" where it is two separate phonograms making the "yu" sound? But like @Clarita said I think this might be a "you just have to memorize it" situation.

[Lovinglife234]

How old is he?  I wouldn’t worry, think that one is common.  I just had this issue with my 7 yr old.  And my 5 yr old gets U and Y mixed up sometimes when learning his letters.  The letter U starts with “y” so he’ll point to Y.

Edited September 15 by Lovinglife234

[sweet2ndchance]

He's 11 almost 12. He has significant delays in all things language arts though due to speech issues that are still being addressed with speech therapy.

[Servant4Christ]

I haven't taught this in a few years so forgive me if I'm rusty, but I seem to remember that the /yu/ sound as a first sound that is followed by a consonant sound can only be spelled as the letter U.

Examples: use, universe, unity, unicorn

Edited September 17 by Servant4Christ

[countrymum]

3 hours ago, Servant4Christ said:

I haven't taught this in a few years so forgive me if I'm rusty, but I seem to remember that the /yu/ sound as a first sound that is followed by a consonant sound can only be spelled as the letter U.

Examples: use, universe, unity, unicorn

That is interesting I'll have to look it up I n my ABCs and all their tricks book! What spelling curriculum did you use?

[maize]

The sounds represented by U in these words ARE two different phonemes; we just spell them with one letter.

An IPA spelling of "use" for example would be "juːz" (j represents a y sound).

Don't tell your child that this word has only two sounds--he has correctly identified that there are three sounds in "use." Explain instead that sometimes we spell a combination of two sounds with one letter, just like we sometimes spell a single sound with two letters  (th, sh, ch...)

[maize]

Here's a phoneme quiz that points out that the word "use" has 3 phonemes (and "fuse" has 4!):

https://www.proprofs.com/quiz-school/story.php?title=phonemes-retest_2q3#:~:text=The word "use" has three,the end of the word.

You can also compare the sounds in "use" with those in "you". The beginning sounds are the same, and each phoneme counts regardless of how it is spelled.

[Servant4Christ]

13 hours ago, countrymum said:

That is interesting I'll have to look it up I n my ABCs and all their tricks book! What spelling curriculum did you use?

I used CLE with my oldest but he's a teenager now so I don't remember exactly what was taught for this. That's just what popped into my head and made the most sense for why it is spelled the way it is. Maybe that's just how I learned it once upon a time, though.

Edited September 17 by Servant4Christ

[Servant4Christ]

20 minutes ago, maize said:

Here's a phoneme quiz that points out that the word "use" has 3 phonemes (and "fuse" has 4!):

https://www.proprofs.com/quiz-school/story.php?title=phonemes-retest_2q3#:~:text=The word "use" has three,the end of the word.

You can also compare the sounds in "use" with those in "you". The beginning sounds are the same, and each phoneme counts regardless of how it is spelled.

Thank you!