My Ongoing Review of MathAcademy.com - Calculus Update 5/2

[JumpyTheFrog]

I wasn't able to find many reviews for Math Academy, so I thought I'd start keeping a log of our experiences.

Background:

DS1

• Algebra 1: AOPS (first half of book)
• Geometry: first half of Jacob's (2nd ed.), ch 5-12 from Derek Owens, two chapters from Thinkwell
• Algebra 2: Foerster
• Precalc: Derek Owens
• Calc AB: has currently finished 3 of 4 chapters of the first semester with Derek Owens

DS2

• Algebra 1: Foerster
• Geometry: first 25 lessons of Saxon

DS1 started MathAcademy's Calc AB course two weeks ago and DS2 started Geometry three weeks ago. I decided to also use them, and I tested out of most of algebra 1 and will finish it in a few weeks.

Edited May 2 by JumpyTheFrog

[JumpyTheFrog]

The diagnostic test placed DS1 at 38% through Calc AB and DS2 at a similar percent through Geometry. I tested at about 85% through Algebra 1.

Things I like so far:

• The problems are generally designed to not need calculators, although DS2 does need a calculator for trig values.
• The interface is clean and not cluttered.
• Both kids seem to like earning XP and seeing if they have been promoted to a higher league than me.
• This is the least complaining I've heard about math in a long, long time.
• If you don't do well on a quiz, it has you review the relevant topics, and then you can retake it a day or two later.

Things I don't like:

• One XP is supposed to equal approximately one minute of focused work. I'd say that for all three of us each XP averages 2-3 minutes of work. That said, DS2 will work for 1 1/2 hours to get 25-30 XP.
• If you reconfigure the course, it may require the student to take a long diagnostic test. I changed some settings for DS and now it wants him to complete a test that looks like it will take 3 hours to finish. I can't see a way to undo this and have him go back to the original course mode.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Extra XP is awarded if you get every question in a lesson correct, and this has led to both my sons working more carefully. Since they have to earn a certain amount of XP per day, they really want the bonus points.

[Malam]

Is it $50 per month per student, or $50 per month for all of you?

[Lucy the Valiant]

(Is it kind of like "AI meets Khan Academy"? ) I'm intrigued - thanks for sharing here! (I also have a student in DO AP Calc AB, and we're looking for something for calc for next year, too.)

Edited February 22 by Lucy the Valiant

[JumpyTheFrog]

2 hours ago, Malam said:

Is it $50 per month per student, or $50 per month for all of you?

It's per student.

[JumpyTheFrog]

6 minutes ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

(Is it kind of like "AI meets Khan Academy"? ) 

They say they use a spaced repetition system. I love using Anki for studying foreign languages, and DS2 needs regular review of older math topics. (That's one reason I thought I'd have him try Saxon Geometry.)

Most of the questions are multiple choice, although for Algebra 1 I occasionally have one where I have to type in the answer. I don't know if either boy has had problems like that.

The algorithm also has us working through several topics at a time, which I think they do for interleaving. I can see it's usefulness, but I'm also a little annoyed about it. I was hoping DS1 could use it to shore up a couple topics so he can finish the first semester of DO's Calc AB. He can click on topics in the table of contents and do a short lesson, but it doesn't seem to affect the algorithm, so I have no way of knowing if it will have him do those topics next week or several months from now. I originally told him we could try MathAcademy (MA) as an experiment. I was hoping the remaining topics he needed would come up quickly so he would know enough to do the chapter 4 homework for DO, and then he could take the midterm and be done. (DS1 is tired of the DO videos. He seems to prefer reading through one example at a time in MA, but it hasn't been long enough for me to know if the teaching is as good or better.)

[JumpyTheFrog]

As I said, I took the algebra 1 diagnostic test and did very well. It's a little strange which random pre-algebra topics MA keeps having me do. It seems to think that I need to practice finding the area of triangles and trapezoids. I'm wondering if the diagnostic test didn't include these topics, so it's assuming I don't know how to do them.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Examples of DS 2's lessons yesterday (38% through geometry):

• surface area of spheres
• equations of lines in standard form (He can easily do slope-intercept form, but for some reason doing it this way confuses him.)
• 30-60-90 triangle
• triangle proportionality theorem

Tomorrow's lessons:

• review: reflections of geometric figures in Cartesian plane
• trig ratios using Pythagorean theorem
• intro to inverse functions
• calculating side lengths of right triangles using trig 

[JumpyTheFrog]

Quizzes seem to be around every 120-150 XP, so about once a week.

[JumpyTheFrog]

They say the algorithm takes time to finish a problem into consideration. For example, a right answer done quickly shows more progress than taking a while. The goal is to get topics not just mastered, but automatic. We'll need to use it longer to be able to tell if their system is successful at it.

One claim is that they break topics down into much smaller pieces. They specifically said that a typical calculus book will have everything broken down into something like 100 lessons, but they break it down into 600 lessons, so the difficulty is gradually increased one piece at a time. (I may be misremembering those numbers, but it's something along those lines.)

I'll give an example of how this worked in my algebra 1 course today. (These may have been pre-algebra topics they thought I needed.) First I had to find the area of a triangle with easy numbers. I got the first two problems correct quickly, so it upped the difficulty. Then it started having me find the length of one side knowing the other side and the total area. Then it started giving me triangles with heights drawn to two different sides. I had to find the area of the triangle using one height, then use that area to find the height drawn to the other side when given the length of the other side.

Finding the area of trapezoids was similar. It started with the most basic problems, then switched to having me calculate the height or the length of a base given the area, then finally had me calculate the area of a triangle that was part of the trapezoid.

[Nomdeplume]

What do you think of Mathacademy calculus? My son will begin AP calculus BC in April after he finishes Integrated Math 3. He’s taken several SAT math practice tests and he’s scoring an average of 760 as an 8th grader—so that’s not too bad. I hope that Mathacademy calculus prepares him equally well for the AP calculus BC exam. We will follow the Mathacademy recommendation of taking several practice tests after he finishes the course.

 

He loves Mathacademy!

Edited March 7 by Nomdeplume

[JumpyTheFrog]

On 3/6/2024 at 10:48 PM, Nomdeplume said:

What do you think of Mathacademy calculus?

After one month, I decided DS1 needed to go back to Derek Owens. It became obvious he wasn't really learning the material. He figured out some pattern in the answers that allowed him to eliminate 3 out of 5 choices, then do a problem partway and pick which remaining choice seemed more likely. I discovered this when the system showed he did several problems in 30-60 seconds, but when I wrote the problems on paper and told him to  show me how to solve them, he couldn't even figure out how to get started. This also explains why he rarely had much work on his scratch paper.

Now DS1 is a weasely kid, so now I can't recommend it for kids who hate school and will try to do the bare minimum. I still have DS2 using it for geometry because he actually does the problems, rather than guess at them. (Although he agrees with DS1 about the pattern in the answers.) But he has a different, more trustworthy personality, and I can see him writing down work.

DS2 was starting to take too long to get his XP, so last week I switched it to doing three 20 minute "math sprints" with other subjects in between, rather than one long session, which was often taking him 1.5-2 hours because of general dawdling. It seems to be working better.

[Malam]

12 hours ago, JumpyTheFrog said:

figured out some pattern in the answers that allowed him to eliminate 3 out of 5 choices, then do a problem partway and pick which remaining choice seemed more likely

I think if you can get him to explain the process in more detail, it might be useful as feedback so they adjust the answers

[Nomdeplume]

Our experience of Mathacademy so far: son (8th grade) has completed Integrated Math 1,2, & 3 and started Mathacademy AP Calculus BC last week. He is a hardworking kid (doing a multi-year Chemistry Olympiad training course and insists on getting there 1/2 hour early so that he always gets “his seat” — middle of front row, right in front of Chinese teacher. Teacher’s students populate at least 3/4 of the US Olympiad team every year—it’s hard core training. So that’s the student in question’s attitude towards academics. Anyway, he’s scoring 780-800 more recently on SAT practice tests (old, new on Bluebook, College Panda.) He’ll take the genuine SAT in May and another in June—-I’ll post outcome. As of now, I’m relatively confident that Mathacademy has taught him pretty well so far. He loves Mathacademy and as of now we plan to continue with it over the next 4 years.

Edited March 31 by Nomdeplume

[EKS]

I would love to see how they approach university level math.

After I recover from this semester, I may check it out.  It's certainly cheap enough, given that you can go as fast as you want and the level of math we're talking about.

 

Edited April 1 by EKS

[Malam]

3 hours ago, Nomdeplume said:

Our experience of Mathacademy so far: son (8th grade) has completed Integrated Math 1,2, & 3 and started Mathacademy AP Calculus BC last week. He is a hardworking kid (doing a multi-year Chemistry Olympiad training course and insists on getting there 1/2 hour early so that he always gets “his seat” — middle of front row, right in front of Chinese teacher. Teacher’s students populate at least 3/4 of the US Olympiad team every year—it’s hard core training. So that’s the student in question’s attitude towards academics. Anyway, he’s scoring 780-800 more recently on SAT practice tests (old, new on Bluebook, College Panda.) He’ll take the genuine SAT in May and another in June—-I’ll post outcome. As of now, I’m relatively confident that Mathacademy has taught him pretty well so far. He loves Mathacademy and as of now we plan to continue with it over the next 4 years.

Chen or Huang?

[madteaparty]

Thanks for this review. I was wondering how the lessons compare to khan’s? I think missing the video component will be a factor here.

[JumpyTheFrog]

On 4/1/2024 at 11:52 AM, madteaparty said:

I think missing the video component will be a factor here.

Their website says they specifically don't want to use videos because they think watching video lessons is too passive compared to reading lessons. DS2 won't read the lessons carefully consistently, so I have to help him several times per day.

He's now 61% through geometry. I'm concerned about the lack of proofs, so after trying to avoid doing it again after DS1, today I dragged out Jacob's 2nd edition so he can do proofs. I don't know how much of the book we'll go through, but while we use it I'll have Math Academy be more of a supplement (at 9 XP per day). This will get him through both Math Academy and most of Jacob's by mid-September. (I'm hoping to find ways to speed it up so he's done with both by mid-August.)

[JumpyTheFrog]

I have to say, I like all the built-in review. For some reason writing equations in point-slope form gave DS2 trouble. The spaced repetition seems to have him do a review lesson about once a week now, and it seems like it's finally starting to stick. The system gives users five lessons to choose from, and some days, like today, all five are review, while other days some or all are new topics.

Edited April 3 by JumpyTheFrog

[Nomdeplume]

Huang

 

Edited April 5 by Nomdeplume

[Nomdeplume]

On 3/31/2024 at 1:18 PM, Malam said:

Chen or Huang?

Huang

[Nomdeplume]

topic...

On 4/3/2024 at 11:16 AM, JumpyTheFrog said:

Their website says they specifically don't want to use videos because they think watching video lessons is too passive compared to reading lessons. DS2 won't read the lessons carefully consistently, so I have to help him several times per day.

He's now 61% through geometry. I'm concerned about the lack of proofs, so after trying to avoid doing it again after DS1, today I dragged out Jacob's 2nd edition so he can do proofs. I don't know how much of the book we'll go through, but while we use it I'll have Math Academy be more of a supplement (at 9 XP per day). This will get him through both Math Academy and most of Jacob's by mid-September. (I'm hoping to find ways to speed it up so he's done with both by mid-August.)

We also did AoPS geometry (which has lots of proofs.)

[JumpyTheFrog]

2 hours ago, Nomdeplume said:

We also did AoPS geometry (which has lots of proofs.)

DS1 used AOPS for algebra 1, and I decided I'm not up to dragging another above-average but doesn't like math student through AOPS again. I found using Foerster to be less stressful with DS2.

[EKS]

On 4/3/2024 at 8:16 AM, JumpyTheFrog said:

Their website says they specifically don't want to use videos because they think watching video lessons is too passive compared to reading lessons.

As someone who has learned math both ways, my take on it is that it doesn't matter whether it's a video or text as long as two things happen. 

The first is that the student is actively engaged.  That means their brain is engaging every step of the way.  That only happens if they are doing problems.  So lots of opportunities to pause instruction and actually engage by working through a problem or whatever.  And then when instruction resumes the student should get immediate feedback on whether they did the thing correctly.  

The second is that the instruction isn't mired in formalism.  The biggest failing of math textbooks is that they are written as reference works for people who already know the material.  It is ridiculous.  And many videos have this same issue, though usually there will be at least some commentary that runs alongside the formalism where you get glimpses of how real human beings actually think about the topic at hand.

For myself, I find videos to be too slow moving.  I like glancing over text and then trying to do problems right away.  It's much more engaging that way.  That said, you can use videos this way as well.  Just do examples ahead of the presenter and then fast forward to the solution to see if you're right.

Anyway, I guess my point here is that reading isn't really any more active than watching.  It's what you're doing while reading or watching that counts.

 

[EKS]

On 4/3/2024 at 8:16 AM, JumpyTheFrog said:

I'm concerned about the lack of proofs...

I don't see how something that is computer based could actually teach proofs properly.  I've seen other programs use drop down menus, but that gives way too much help.

[JumpyTheFrog]

2 minutes ago, EKS said:

I don't see how something that is computer based could actually teach proofs properly.  I've seen other programs use drop down menus, but that gives way too much help.

I don't know how they could do it either. It seems that they decided to just ignore the issue entirely.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Okay, I have to share this crazy update with everyone. Last week we requested the non-AP calculus midterm from Derek Owens. He completed it and got an 86, which I was a little disappointed about after having an A in the course previously. After a few days of trying to figure out why his score wasn't showing up properly in their grading system, I looked at the test again and realized they had sent the second semester exam instead of the midterm! Most of the test covered material he had never covered in the DO course and had only done in Math Academy. Apparently DS1 learned much more in that one month of Math Academy calculus than I thought!

Unfortunately, he thought he was done with math, and now he has to take the real midterm. He's not happy about that, since he greatly dislikes school and graduation is on his mind.

[EKS]

There’s a non-AP DO calculus course?

[Nomdeplume]

A

Edited May 16 by Nomdeplume

[Nomdeplume]

On 5/2/2024 at 11:16 AM, JumpyTheFrog said:

Okay, I have to share this crazy update with everyone. Last week we requested the non-AP calculus midterm from Derek Owens. He completed it and got an 86, which I was a little disappointed about after having an A in the course previously. After a few days of trying to figure out why his score wasn't showing up properly in their grading system, I looked at the test again and realized they had sent the second semester exam instead of the midterm! Most of the test covered material he had never covered in the DO course and had only done in Math Academy. Apparently DS1 learned much more in that one month of Math Academy calculus than I thought!

Unfortunately, he thought he was done with math, and now he has to take the real midterm. He's not happy about that, since he greatly dislikes school and graduation is on his mind.

That’s great news! My son is about 40% of the way through AP calculus BC. I love hearing that your son learned quite a bit of calculus from Mathacademy in such a short period of time!

[JumpyTheFrog]

On 5/2/2024 at 12:56 PM, EKS said:

There’s a non-AP DO calculus course?

There's one course, but students have the choice of taking AP vs non-AP tests. DS1 hates school, so I had him take the non-AP tests.

[JumpyTheFrog]

DS started tested into MathAcademy's Geometry at around 38% done in late February and is now 81% done. We never went back to Saxon after he started. Two months ago I had him start going through Jacob's Geometry (2nd ed.) to learn how to do proofs. He should be done with MA's geometry in another 1-2 months, at which point we'll spend more time in the textbook. At that point I'll probably use MA as a supplement after having him take the Algebra 1 diagnostic test.