CC Essentials Prep

[oschool8]

Hello, I am a new member, and fairly new to classical education. This is our second year participating in a Classical Conversations community, where this year I am a Foundations tutor. My older two are in the program, 3rd grade and 2nd grade. My oldest who is in 3rd grade is going to be old enough for CC Essentials next year so we are considering going ahead with that for her next year. She has a natural ability for language, and I personally love language arts and everything about it. However, English is our second language. I’ve lived in the US for 24 years now so I have no concerns with my English language skills, but since my husband and I are both originally from another country, we wanted our kids to speak our language and so for the first few years of their life we only spoke to them in our native language. Once they started school (we have homeschooled from the beginning) we introduced English and have been immersing them in that, which they picked up pretty quickly, especially when we joined the CC community. The reason I give this background is because I have heard that Essentials is very rigorous in grammar and writing, which I love, but I feel the need to prepare my daughter for that. I have no doubt that she will do well; however, I don’t want her to go into the program completely blindsided by all the new terminology and the new concepts. I get that it will be repeated for 3 years, but knowing my daughter and our unique family situation (and honestly my own love and passion for language) I want to do something this year to prepare her. 
 

I am looking for recommendations for grammar curriculum as well as just other language arts curriculum others may have found helpful. I am also very interested in word roots and  considering starting Latin a little bit, although I may wait until next year as I don’t want to overwhelm her too much. I do know that knowing another language already she has the potential to thrive in Latin as well, but I am mainly concerned about grammar. 
 

I have looked at Michael Clay Thompson, Beowulf Grammar, and Rod and Staff to mane a few. Perhaps I am frozen by my desire to find the perfect one, which I know doesn’t exist. Any input is appreciated. Thank you!

[HomeAgain]

I would weigh the pros and cons of each grammar program you listed.  MCT is conversational, but different than most.  Beowulf is fun, but needs to be printed.  R&S is steady, but can be overkill.  Think about the time you have to devote to the subject and whether you want it separate or integrated into a language arts program.  Classical Conversations gets very little love here because of some of the huge red flags it has, and I wouldn't tailor a program at home around it, but I'd say just pick something that meets your child where she is and can slowly build upward as she has the time and inclination.

[Green Bean]

nm.

Edited June 12 by Green Bean

[8filltheheart]

I 2nd @HomeAgain's suggestion of just getting whatever you like.  Winston Grammar, Easy Grammar, or Jr Analytical Grammar might be other options to look through.

To expand on her red flags comment....CC is most definitely not representative of classical education. If you like it, wonderful. That is important. But, it isnt a CE. It is a neoclassical knock-off treating The Lost Tools of Learning's ages/stages as if they are the backbone of classical ed. (CE has nothing to do with ages/stages. That was Dorothy Sayer's opinion on ed.) CC is far removed from CE Socratic teaching methodology and philosophy of cognitive formation. (But that is true of all currently CE marketed materials. It is a marketing tool that put a shiny title on a modern pedagogy box.)

Edited October 31, 2023 by 8filltheheart

[HomeAgain]

12 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

I 2nd @HomeAgain's suggestion of just getting whatever you like.  Winston Grammar, Easy Grammar, or Jr Analytical Grammar might be other options to look through.

To expand on her red flags comment....CC is most definitely not representative of classical education. If you like it, wonderful. That is important. But, it isnt a CE. It is a neoclassical knock-off treating The Lost Tools of Learning's ages/stages as if they are the backbone of classical ed. (CE has nothing to do with ages/stages. That was Dorothy Sayer's opinion on ed.) CC is far removed from CE Socratic teaching methodology and philosophy of cognitive formation. (But that is true of all currently CE marketed materials. It is a marketing tool that put a shiny title on a modern pedagogy box.)

I'll also say that there are a couple of other huge problems:
PERPL - the requirement that no Personal, Explosive, Religious, Performance, LEGAL concerns are put in writing.  It lets CC ignore grave concerns.
Using churches for for-profit businesses and not understanding the tax issues surrounding that for the churches themselves.
Stealing members' work by having them upload it to CC Connections, then taking control of it and charging others for it.
Repackaging Scholastic books and claiming the work as theirs and proprietary of CC.
Trying to extend their authority to "the end of the universe and beyond" (seriously, in their directors' contracts)
Misrepresentation of statistics for their graduates
Using volunteers for their for-profit business during their seminars/pitches (a big no-no, and I'm glad they finally realized it)
Being in bed with Douglas Wilson and relying heavily on his work.

 

CC's ability to educate is honestly one of the lowest red flags there is.  It's an expensive supplement, and I am not going to care how others spend their money.  But CC is straight headed for a legal dumpster fire and I wouldn't encourage anyone to jump in with them.

[AnneGG]

We’re in CC this year. I don’t think they really recommend doing anything special before Essentials. (At least at my  Community.) All they really need to know is whatever “English” is in the Foundations guide. Over the summer you could review all the cycle’s terminology  with YouTube playlists. Same with the Latin. 

You have to remember that most of the kids moving up to Essentials have only had Foundations, math and phonics instruction. That’s the CC way. 
 

Honestly, this question will be probably receive the most helpful answers in your CC community. They understand what is expected in your particular community and they know you and your children and your needs.  
 

[AnneGG]

I agree with the CC red flags. 

[Nm.]

In regards to R&S, none of my children hate language.  One is finishing up 5, another is midway 4, another in 3.  They love the confidence it has given them to be able to write well.  It is similar to drilling math facts and simply doesn’t take much time.  Do they love R&S? No because it is work, but they love what it has produced.  Other writing programs have been a breeze for them (I have one doing writing strands and one doing IEW Middle Ages theme this year)- not because I saw a gap in writing, but because their program recommended it.  We do not skip anything in the student book, everything except oral drill is written down in a notebook, and occasionally we use the teachers manual.  For me, it is the simplest to teach and that is what is most important.  If the fun activity based program doesn’t get done & sits on a shelf… then what’s the use?  Get what YOU can teach reliably most days.  All the materials I use are open and go, and have a similar format because I am the one teaching. I need to be able to use the material reliably.

[8filltheheart]

1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

I'll also say that there are a couple of other huge problems:
PERPL - the requirement that no Personal, Explosive, Religious, Performance, LEGAL concerns are put in writing.  It lets CC ignore grave concerns.
Using churches for for-profit businesses and not understanding the tax issues surrounding that for the churches themselves.
Stealing members' work by having them upload it to CC Connections, then taking control of it and charging others for it.
Repackaging Scholastic books and claiming the work as theirs and proprietary of CC.
Trying to extend their authority to "the end of the universe and beyond" (seriously, in their directors' contracts)
Misrepresentation of statistics for their graduates
Using volunteers for their for-profit business during their seminars/pitches (a big no-no, and I'm glad they finally realized it)
Being in bed with Douglas Wilson and relying heavily on his work.

 

CC's ability to educate is honestly one of the lowest red flags there is.  It's an expensive supplement, and I am not going to care how others spend their money.  But CC is straight headed for a legal dumpster fire and I wouldn't encourage anyone to jump in with them.

Agree.  I just didn't want to go there, but I am glad you did.  😁

[FredSmith]

On 10/30/2023 at 11:48 PM, oschool8 said:

Hello, I am a new member, and fairly new to classical education. This is our second year participating in a Classical Conversations community, where this year I am a Foundations tutor. My older two are in the program, 3rd grade and 2nd grade. My oldest who is in 3rd grade is going to be old enough for CC Essentials next year so we are considering going ahead with that for her next year. She has a natural ability for language, and I personally love language arts and everything about it. However, English is our second language. I’ve lived in the US for 24 years now so I have no concerns with my English language skills, but since my husband and I are both originally from another country, we wanted our kids to speak our language and so for the first few years of their life we only spoke to them in our native language. Once they started school (we have homeschooled from the beginning) we introduced English and have been immersing them in that, which they picked up pretty quickly, especially when we joined the CC community. The reason I give this background is because I have heard that Essentials is very rigorous in grammar and writing, which I love, but I feel the need to prepare my daughter for that. I have no doubt that she will do well; however, I don’t want her to go into the program completely blindsided by all the new terminology and the new concepts. I get that it will be repeated for 3 years, but knowing my daughter and our unique family situation (and honestly my own love and passion for language) I want to do something this year to prepare her. 
 

I am looking for recommendations for grammar curriculum as well as just other language arts curriculum others may have found helpful. I am also very interested in word roots and  considering starting Latin a little bit, although I may wait until next year as I don’t want to overwhelm her too much. I do know that knowing another language already she has the potential to thrive in Latin as well, but I am mainly concerned about grammar. 
 

I have looked at Michael Clay Thompson, Beowulf Grammar, and Rod and Staff to mane a few. Perhaps I am frozen by my desire to find the perfect one, which I know doesn’t exist. Any input is appreciated. Thank you!

 

Welcome 🙂 You will find a lot of useful information over here and also this site is full of good members who are always there to help you 🙂

Edited December 12, 2023 by FredSmith