Adjusting

[Porridge]

We joined a one day a week coop this year for my younger. They do 3 academic subjects and a "fun" class.  The transition has not been easy. We have not done this type of coop before - we've done most of our academics at home, heavily tailored for learning differences / neurodivergence.

It is hard to be on someone else's schedule. I cannot tell him not to do stuff that is, for him, busy work. I cannot adapt certain assignments to his learning style / learning differences.  One of the moms teaching a class is not organized. She has changed the assignments last minute, asked us to do things without being able to clearly define what the expectations are, or asked the kids to do complicated stuff that she didn't test first (and didn't work). DS, our resident IT / tech wizard, has spent a lot of time today helping other kids sort through that complicated thing to try to figure out how to get it to work.  He's getting frustrated. I told him it was great that he was helping others, but if it's getting overwhelming, it's ok to set a boundary and stop. (Because it should really be the mom who is teaching who should trouble shoot this stuff before asking the kids to do it...)

He is frustrated. School is taking more time, but he is (so far) learning less. He has less time for his passion.

On the other hand, it's a very nice group of kids. There are no bullies or aggressive personalities. Some of the kids are so, so sweet and welcoming to him. He This one desperately needs friends / to feel welcomed. If not friends, at least a friendly community. So I am trying to encourage him. I told him to expect 90% boring / busywork as a reasonable tradeoff for the 10% community / friends. In reality, it's not so skewed, but I have to exaggerate the percentages to get him to buy it 😉 . 

I am mourning the stress it's added to our daily routine. I am mourning the loss of "rigor." I am mourning the inability to follow rabbit trails or tailor the content and methodology for his differences.

However, I am hopeful that he will make friends. There is an active chat group among the kids, and that has already been a source of fun for him. 

The other moms are on a different wavelength and I don't expect to find deeper connections for myself. Perhaps it takes time. Perhaps we will find more common ground as the weeks progress. Or, we won't, and that will be ok. Nothing wrong with them and nothing wrong with me - just different.

I just need to process the good and the less good aspects. I feel sad one minute, then guardedly neutral, then optimistic. Overall, I am hopeful for this year. I think the moms will iron out the kinks for the classes they are teaching. I think he can learn a lot by being on someone else's schedule. I think he can learn a lot by being around and in contact with other kids. I am hopeful that he will continue to feel welcomed and appreciated by this group.

Thanks for listening.

 

ETA: Realized I may sound whiny. I’m really appreciative of this opportunity. I think I’m just a wimp when it comes to change 🙂 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Porridge

[ScoutTN]

((Porridge and Ds))

[lewelma]

Why can you not adapt the assignments? Why does he have to do busy work?

As a homeschooler, you the mom decide the grades. So you could tell your son, that the grade given at the co-op will count for 25% of his overall grade and the rest will come from his own passions that you can link in any way you want to the topic under study. I would absolutely take control of your child's education. Yes, he needs the friendships so needs to be in the co-op, but No you don't have to have his academics revolve around it. 

Just my 2 cents worth given that I have a child with a learning disability. 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by lewelma

[Porridge]

46 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Why can you not adapt the assignments? Why does he have to do busy work?

As a homeschooler, you the mom decide the grades. So you could tell your son, that the grade given at the co-op will count for 25% of his overall grade and the rest will come from his own passions that you can link in any way you want to the topic under study. I would absolutely take control of your child's education. Yes, he needs the friendships so needs to be in the co-op, but No you don't have to have his academics revolve around it. 

Just my 2 cents worth given that I have a child with a learning disability. 

 

I never thought of that. You're helping me unpack some unspoken assumptions I must carry. I think I feel obligated to support the moms who are teaching by having my child fully participate in the expected assignments. If he doesn't, I guess I'm assuming they will feel he is disrespecting their efforts.  Perhaps they will feel that we disapprove of the type of assignments chosen, and don't feel them to be valuable.

Do I have a obligation to support the mom/teachers in this way?

My personality is the type that wants to support others. SO if I do this I will need to be very self-aware and probably need to maintain some distance from the other moms so I can function not as a friend / encourager but more as a ... colleague? 

Now that I'm articulating these things..... I am also teaching, and I realize that if kids don't do my assignments, I don't mind.  Because I have a ND kid, I understand that not all kids can easily do x or should do x, so I wouldn't take it personally if kid y didn't do x.  But the nature of the class that I'm teaching is more of a supplement, not a primary academic class. 

I haven't told all the moms in the coop about DS's differences. (Actually, I did try to tell 2 - 1 got it, 1 was very sweet and I think well- intentioned, but really didn't get it.) I don't particularly want to tell all the moms unless it's absolutely necessary, partly to protect his privacy, partly because I don't want them to view him as a coddled kid.  I don't care anymore if they think I'm a coddling parent (I did care when I was younger), but I don't want him to be viewed negatively. 

Though perhaps I should not care how they view him?

You're really helping me think through this....

Edited August 25, 2023 by Porridge

[lewelma]

Top priority is your kid's education and relationships. The moms are supporting you and your role of homeschool parent.  All educational decisions are yours. 

I think you could simply have a private meeting and explain.  1) be positive. I love what you are teaching my son. He is gaining so much from your viewpoint and approach. 2) He has a lot of other passions that I want to support, so your class is supplementary to the educational work we do at home. 3) because of that, he and I will pick out the assignments that will help him and pass on the rest. 4) I really value your feedback, so will be using all your grades to help him to learn. 5)  I know how much work you are putting in, so just let me know how I can support you and your efforts. 

If you take the above approach, you don't have to discuss the ND. But if you think that it would help make your case, then get permission of your child, and add that to the discussion as to why you need to pick some assignments and pass on some (#3). 

These are homeschool parents. I would assume that they don't believe in lock-step education or their kids would be in school. So I think that they will understand if you are super appreciative and positive.

Edited August 26, 2023 by lewelma

[Porridge]

20 hours ago, lewelma said:

These are homeschool parents. I would assume that they don't believe in lock-step education or their kids would be in school. So I think that they will understand if you are super appreciative and positive.

I would have thought that, but I'm not sure this group thinks that way. I think my homeschooling philosophy might be pretty different. A lot of them came out of a pretty lock-step program.

Thank you for the "script." I'm going to see how this next week goes, and then try to figure out what we need to do to make this work.

If you pick and choose assignments, doesn't that impact how the teacher runs the class? For instance, if she wants the kids to discuss the homework, and my kid doesn't do it, my kid wouldn't be able to participate. 

I was wondering last night if I'm just a profoundly incapable mom / hs-mom - why is this so stressful? But then I realized that none of these issues would have created much stress at all if we were doing this with my other kid. Every kid is different. Maybe we just need a few weeks to settle in and figure things out.

[Shoeless]

39 minutes ago, Porridge said:

I was wondering last night if I'm just a profoundly incapable mom / hs-mom - why is this so stressful?

Well, I doubt that you are a profoundly incapable hs-mom. That doesn't track with what I've seen you post. 

It's stressful because you are trying to fit yourselves into someone else's vision of school and learning. 

Does your son want to be there? I know you say he needs friends, but does he say that or do you say that? Are there other avenues you could pursue for friendship and social time? My kiddo is adamant that he does not want a co-op. He's always been out of sync with other kids academically and our stress level went down a lot when we stopped trying to make co-ops happen. Right now, kiddo is getting his social time via art classes and several online gaming meetups. I'm going to nudge him to try the teen meetups at the library when they start in September, too. 

Here's what SWB says about co-ops. I had to watch this every time I thought "But maybe it will be different this time..."

Should I Join a Co-op?

 

[Porridge]

1 hour ago, Shoeless said:

Does your son want to be there? I know you say he needs friends, but does he say that or do you say that? Are there other avenues you could pursue for friendship and social time?

Yes and no. DS wants friends. He can clearly articulate his insecurities, and he understands some of the issues that were barriers to relationships in the past. He is not pro-co-op, but recognizes it may be the only/best venue for friend making.

We've tried a lot of things. I presented a list of options. He chose this as the least bad option.

So it was me pushing for the co-op; DS reluctant, but amenable for the sake of finding friends. We had a rough couple of years and I felt totally tapped out. He needed friends, but I also needed him to have other relationships. It wasn't sustainable for me to be "everything" to him (ok, obviously not everything - but his primary support). We did that for awhile (felt like a very looong season) - it was necessary and we made a lot of progress (which DH reminds me to help me stay hopeful when I'm tired and prone to catastrophizing), but we can't stay there.

He's been telling me on one hand how stressed the coop makes him (school time stress was definitely higher this past week), but on the other hand, he now says he enjoys helping the other kids with IT stuff, and he was really proud of being able to provide a creative work-around for his classmate.

I knew going into this that it would not be a perfect fit -- There would be trade offs. I've mostly avoided co-ops (tried one in the past for enrichment but never for core academics and not something that was a pillar of our schedule) because of the issues SWB alludes to and because I have a specific vision for what/how I want my kids to learn and how they learn best. Both my kids are out of sync with other kids. 

I'm deeply appreciative of the other families in the group and this opportunity they've come together to create. This is hard because of issues related to our situation. 

I also tell myself this is one year. He will grow and mature and change a great deal in one year. He may grow into the coop and the stress level may go down. Or he may mature in other ways and be better able to access alternative social opportunities. We will take one year at a time.

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Porridge

[Shoeless]

2 minutes ago, Porridge said:

Yes and no. DS wants friends. He can clearly articulate his insecurities, and he understands some of the issues that were barriers to relationships in the past. He is not pro-co-op, but recognizes it may be the only/best venue for friend making.

We've tried a lot of things. I presented a list of options. He chose this as the least bad option.

So it was me pushing for the co-op; DS reluctant, but amenable for the sake of finding friends. We had a rough couple of years and I felt totally tapped out. He needed friends, but I also needed him to have other relationships. It wasn't sustainable for me to be "everything" to him (ok, obviously not everything - but his primary support). We did that for awhile (felt like a very looong season) - it was necessary and we made a lot of progress (which DH reminds me to help me stay hopeful when I'm tired and prone to catastrophizing), but we can't stay there.

He's been telling me on one hand how stressed the coop makes him (school time stress was definitely higher this past week), but on the other hand, he now says he enjoys helping the other kids with IT stuff, and he was really proud of being able to provide a creative work-around for his classmate.

I knew going into this that it would not be a perfect fit -- There would be trade offs. I've mostly avoided co-ops (tried one in the past for enrichment but never for core academics and not something that was a pillar of our schedule) because of the issues SWB alludes to. Both my kids are out of sync with other kids. 

I'm deeply appreciative of the other families in the group and this opportunity they've come together to create. This is hard because of issues related to our situation. 

I also tell myself this is one year. He will grow and mature and change a great deal in one year. He may grow into the coop and the stress level may go down. Or he may mature in other ways and be better able to access alternative social opportunities. We will take one year at a time.

 

That makes sense. In light of that, I'd stick it out a while longer. Maybe re-evaluate after Christmas/New Years and see how it feels. 

As far as the assignments, I say that your son should do any work that others depend on. If not completing an assignment means another kid can't finish their work, then he has to do that assignment, even if it's busywork. That's part of being a friend; you don't leave your buddies in the lurch, even if what they need from you is boring, annoying, etc. So, yes to doing your part of the group presentation, even if it's making a stupid poster, because you are part of a team. No to doing the dumb worksheet that only the teacher sees. 

[AnneGG]

I could’ve written the OP. 
 

I’m definitely mourning the loss of rigor, customizing curricula for my children and my own schedule. I’m already dreaming about the last day, which mercifully, is in March. At first I thought that was weird, but now I am cheering.

[ScoutTN]

OP, I have felt the same ambivalence and frustration. It is such a struggle!

My situation was different in that my student was glad to be there. But we both struggled to find a way to keep our homeschool. It varied every year, but we learned how to do it. For us, in the end, the relationships with both tutors and students and the social dimension, were worth the trade offs. 

Online classes did not create this same struggle because we selected courses which fit us well in terms of teaching philosophy, challenge, and scheduling. 
 

I think I would stick it out for the year. You and your Ds may view the pros and cons differently in May than you do now. Friendships take time. 

[Porridge]

Thank you, @ScoutTN

The morning was rough. Some of the old patterns (maladaptive coping) that we had worked so hard to get past resurfaced.

@AnneGG, I’m sorry it’s been stressful for you, too. We will figure it out! Adulting at our finest… 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Porridge

[Not_a_Number]

To me, this sounds like a positive development. Some social skills can only be learned in context. So think of this as non-academic learning. It's not that he's not learning -- it's that he's learning how to deal with his peers and to deal with work environments. Those are really important skills!! 

How's he feeling about the trade-off? I'd make sure he feels ownership of the situation -- if he does it because he feels like you're making him, he might not make the effort on the things that would be helpful in these situations. 

[Not_a_Number]

Oh, and I totally agree with @lewelma: if, in your opinion, this set up is for him to make friends, then you can respectfully tell the organizers running it that this is how you're treating it. 

I've actually done the same with our local homeschool center. DD7 has been taking a "writing" class here, and they are supposed to learn to write in cursive. But she already knows how to write in cursive, except using slightly different letters. And she obviously doesn't want to "learn" it again in a different way! 

So I asked her teacher if it'd be OK if she just did it her own way. She didn't really care. Honestly, I think lots of people will be pretty willing to accommodate you if it makes your child more compliant . . . 

ETA: I can see that I'm repeating other people's points. My apologies. I'm getting a cold, I think, so I'm woozy and having trouble with reading as opposed to skimming . . . 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

On 8/26/2023 at 7:15 PM, Porridge said:

We've tried a lot of things. I presented a list of options. He chose this as the least bad option.

What were the other options, if you don't mind me asking? 

[Porridge]

Hi @Not_a_Number! I’m sorry you’re not feeling well, and hope you’re on the mend soon.

Yes— It is the year to prioritize social over academics, for sure. We can’t get the social without the academics, and the academics come with additional stress (more stress, less academic efficiency). But those are valid trade offs for this one. We’re increasingly thankful for the social environment. 

school was stressful this morning, but last night he was actually listing all the good things about the co-op — a good sign.

I think it’s hard for DS to feel ownership because he really wanted to stay home and do nothing. So any option would have felt partially forced. But he may feel more ownership as the other kids are asking him for more help. And he may feel ownership if we let him drop music and/or language - I already have plans in motion to nix those, but he said he wanted to wait a few weeks and see how things go. Those are hard for me to let go of, but the social part is more important.

Other options included: 2 day a week university model school, a 1-2 day a week place where you can take a la cart classes, me starting a club, public school, private school. 

[Not_a_Number]

23 minutes ago, Porridge said:

Hi @Not_a_Number! I’m sorry you’re not feeling well, and hope you’re on the mend soon.

Yes— It is the year to prioritize social over academics, for sure. We can’t get the social without the academics, and the academics come with additional stress (more stress, less academic efficiency). But those are valid trade offs for this one. We’re increasingly thankful for the social environment. 

school was stressful this morning, but last night he was actually listing all the good things about the co-op — a good sign.

I think it’s hard for DS to feel ownership because he really wanted to stay home and do nothing. So any option would have felt partially forced. But he may feel more ownership as the other kids are asking him for more help. And he may feel ownership if we let him drop music and/or language - I already have plans in motion to nix those, but he said he wanted to wait a few weeks and see how things go. Those are hard for me to let go of, but the social part is more important.

Other options included: 2 day a week university model school, a 1-2 day a week place where you can take a la cart classes, me starting a club, public school, private school. 

Interesting. So he would have wanted to stay home and not make friends at all? What part of this is his initiative? 

I hope you don't mind, but I have a bunch of questions about this. Do you know why he preferred this option? Would he have been OK not making any friends this year at all? 

ETA: if you want to move this to PM, let me know! 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Not_a_Number

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, Porridge said:

Hi @Not_a_Number! I’m sorry you’re not feeling well, and hope you’re on the mend soon.

Yes— It is the year to prioritize social over academics, for sure. We can’t get the social without the academics, and the academics come with additional stress (more stress, less academic efficiency). But those are valid trade offs for this one. We’re increasingly thankful for the social environment. 

school was stressful this morning, but last night he was actually listing all the good things about the co-op — a good sign.

I think it’s hard for DS to feel ownership because he really wanted to stay home and do nothing. So any option would have felt partially forced. But he may feel more ownership as the other kids are asking him for more help. And he may feel ownership if we let him drop music and/or language - I already have plans in motion to nix those, but he said he wanted to wait a few weeks and see how things go. Those are hard for me to let go of, but the social part is more important.

Other options included: 2 day a week university model school, a 1-2 day a week place where you can take a la cart classes, me starting a club, public school, private school. 

Are there any non-schoolish activities he would be willing to try? Dungeons and Dragons, art classes, martial arts, archery, chess club, teen group at the library, tech crew for theater, 4-h? Do you have any museums near you? Sometimes they have teen docent programs. What about volunteering? 

My kid does art, blacksmithing, and d&d online. He's made a few pals with online gaming. I'm going to nudge him to try the teen group at the library and a board game meetup. 

[Ting Tang]

Not much to add here—- But interacting with other kids in person is just as important as education, I think. Two of mine do not agree with me, so I foresee a time when I will arrange for this to happen more often. I think it’s okay to let go of some rigor if it means your child is developing in other ways. Maybe your child will make a good friend or two who will last behind the co-op. Nothing has to be forever.

[Porridge]

On 8/28/2023 at 6:18 PM, Not_a_Number said:

Interesting. So he would have wanted to stay home and not make friends at all? What part of this is his initiative? 

I hope you don't mind, but I have a bunch of questions about this. Do you know why he preferred this option? Would he have been OK not making any friends this year at all? 

ETA: if you want to move this to PM, let me know! 

will PM you

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Porridge said:

will PM you

Just as an FYI, I have this website blocked for most of the day, so I'll probably reply tomorrow evening.

[Porridge]

23 hours ago, Shoeless said:

Are there any non-schoolish activities he would be willing to try? Dungeons and Dragons, art classes, martial arts, archery, chess club, teen group at the library, tech crew for theater, 4-h? Do you have any museums near you? Sometimes they have teen docent programs. What about volunteering? 

We've tried a lot... nothing stuck. I think as he gains confidence, he may be more open to these types of things in the future. But he's always been a kid with very, very narrow interest(s).  Yes - volunteering is great. He has really enjoyed that, But the other kids don't go regularly, so it;s not a place to really make friends. But he does enjoy volunteering