8th grade writing plan: advice please?

[A.M.]

Hello

I'm hoping some of you will be able to advise with regards to my son's writing plan for next academic year. 
I am looking at a few options and keep changing my mind as to what might be most beneficial to him.

A few words about him: almost 13, very interested and enjoys reading. He loves grammar, likes logic.
When he works independently, his output is slow. He actually does many things very slowly: eating, putting on his shoes, writing.
I eventually decided that if we want to get more work done, working orally is best. Maths, grammar and exchange of arguments flow better when we do them orally.
This slowness is one of our main challenges.

Next year we are looking to do grade 8 (UK year 9) work, before starting to work through the GCSE specifications. These tend to be rather limiting, so for GCSE preparation I might opt to use one of the exam board syllabi.

This means that coming year might be the last year that I have so much wriggle room regarding curriculum, so I really want to make the best of it.

As for his level: he is not pen-phobic but takes his sweet time to write. Ds summarizes well, outlines, writes basic paragraphs, letters, and has done a bit of essay writing.
We have written across the curriculum, completed WWE (love it!), half of WWS level 1 (he didn't like it, which surprised me as he rarely complains about curriculum), and this year we are going through IEW to learn some of their techniques.

I would like him to start using 3-level outlining to use across the curriculum.

Very important for this child: efficient use of time, because of his pace.

I am considering these options:

- write across the curriculum using the approach for middle school laid out by SWB : outlining early in the week and write pieces based on the outline later in the same week.

The great advantage I see here is that it teaches an important academic skill and, considering his working pace, it will give him more time with the content area of our studies, such as history and science. 

An advantage also is that I am familiar with this approach and find it easy to implement.

Worry: would this give him enough writing experience to embark on the GCSE curriculum?

- Lost Tools of Writing:
this curriculum sounds interesting because it combines some of our interest areas such as logic and literature. So it seems partly writing across the curriculum.
An advantage is that it would give ds more essay writing practice in a gentle way.

Concern here is that most reviews I've read refer to outsourced classes and not to use at home by the parent. I wonder whether this curriculum can easily be used by an inexperienced teacher, and one on one.
Another issue is that I will need to read the literature as well. I am worried that time constraints might be an issue here and that I won't be able to read all the books myself.
Can short stories be used instead, or would they not be meaty enough for the required in-depth discussions?
We do enjoy discussions 🙂

On the other hand, if LToW is really worthwhile for this age group (13), then coming year is the only possibility I see for us to use it.

- Another very different option that seems interesting is to tap into my son's interest in logic and use that for writing.
He has studied some basic logic, and I am looking at The Argument Builder for next year. From what I read it seems that the Argument Builder may be used for writing.

Advantage: it seems open and go.
Concern: no writing across the curriculum, so use of time would be less efficient. Also, would it be a suitable medium to improve writing skills.

I really hope some of you experienced educators can help point me in the right direction. I apologize for the long post.

Warmest regards

[Momto6inIN]

I don't know anything about GCSE or the UK system, I'm only familiar with the US.

If your kid can outline and summarize and write a good paragraph, then he should be completely ready to write across the curriculum. You can have great lit discussions a la LToW without the writing component, although the folks at Circe probably think it's heresy to say that 😉 I've used Argument Builder and my kids needed more direct instruction in writing than it provided, but it was very good at developing their thinking skills. All of that to say, that I don't really think you could go wrong with using any of those programs or with using bits and pieces of them and crafting your own writing assignments. 

[lewelma]

I agree with Momto6, sounds like your son is ready to write across the curriculum. This approach is more efficient than using a curriculum, because writing across the curriculum is tailored exactly to where your son is at and what he is already learning. Plus, you find it easy to implement which means that your teaching will be more targeted. Teach one new thing each essay, and have him focus on one thing to improve with each essay. Then after the essay is completed, give 2 or 3 suggestions. 

As for oral work, I did a lot of this with my younger and it helped him pick up speed.  In order to do well in GCSE, your son will need to get faster so that should be one of your goals.  You can do this through 1) writing more essays (practice increases speed, 2) learning a set structure (IEW approach), 3) Oral composition (which allows for more practice). If this gets too repetitive, you could vary the style of essays to give a bit of variety, so some are just school type essays and others are more creative nonfiction (longer and with more advanced features, deviating from an IEW essay approach). 

LToW - I reviewed this curriculum a while ago.  I do not find it easy to implement and there is a lot of teacher prep.  What it is really good at, is teaching 'invention'. So if your son has nothing to say, you could use their methods for invention without using their curriculum. 

Grammar - If you are worried about time, IMHO grammar will not help with speeding up your son's writing. If he loves it, by all means keep doing it. But otherwise, the most efficient path is to remind him of his grammar knowledge while you and he are editing and proofreading his papers.  I would suggest that he pick a sentence in each paragraph that he thinks is awkward, and then figure out grammatically why it is odd.  Then fix it.  Very efficient, and directly relevant to his own writing. 

HTH

Ruth in NZ

[ScoutTN]

I have a kid who take a lot of time to do everything. Consider getting a psycho-ed eval because processing speed issues are real, and a Dx will get extra time allowed for standardized testing and other important exams. 

[cintinative]

I liked the idea of LTOW but it moves way too slow, and it is too basic.  Either the student needs to know how to improve the language/sentences, or you need to teach it. 

I agree that it's invention tools are great--we still use those. But if I had it to do over, I would avoid Lost tools.  FWIW, we used it in 7th grade with Elegant Essay and it was the worst writing year we had, hands down. Sigh.  ETA: I used a lot of IEW, but Elegant Essay was a flop here. So I'm not discounting IEW.

Edited May 9, 2023 by cintinative

[A.M.]

Thank you all very much for your valuable advice. I'm taking notes. 

A few questions that come up reading everyone's suggestions:

Regarding writing across the curriculum, just to clarify:
I didn't mean that my son was really fluent at outlining, summarizing, and paragraphs. He does all this, but is not proficient yet.
With writing across the curriculum I actually meant using this method as a means to improve those skills.

From your feedback though I am now feeling inclined to go ahead with the writing across the curriculum approach, and use bits and pieces of curricula I have at home to help him with issues as they come up.

I guess now I will need to identify which curricula I should have on my shelf and  'study' over the coming few months.

- @Ruth in NZ: I came across the writing plan you made years ago based on your evaluation of numerous 🙂 writing curricula.
I wonder whether you ended up implementing it in that way, and if you have any reflections on how it panned out. Maybe you have already shared this...

Specifically, you also mentioned planning to use Lost Tools of Writing in that plan. Do you feel it was a valuable addition for you? Should it be on my go-to resources shelf?

Improving speed: those suggestions are super super helpful. Thank you.
Ds's  speed is the thing I'm struggling to improve most, I think.

Oral composition: I'm not sure if I know what that means. Presentations? Or discussions with me that help structure ds's thoughts?

I'm asking you so many questions because I get the impression that my ds in some ways has a profile similar to your younger dc.

Grammar: this is our sit-and-relax activity. We do it for fun, and also because we are a multi-lingual family comparative grammar interests us. But yes, I agree with your integrative approach.

@Momto6inIN Very clear and helpful advice. Thank you!

I like your suggestion to have literature discussions in the style of LToW. Any suggestions how to do this without using the curriculum?
Perhaps you mean that I could study the curriculum myself, learn the approach, and then proceed to use parts of it in a natural way without actually having my son go through it?

As for Argument Builder, we do plan to study logic next year. Hence my idea to use it for writing as well, but I understand now that the writing instruction in it is not sufficient.
Did you like The Argument Builder? Easy to use? Interesting conversations? Hones thinking skills?
Would you say it would also be helpful with invention?

Edited May 10, 2023 by A.M.
missing words

[cintinative]

I can't help with the other questions, but if you want to try to use the invention method described in Lost Tools of Writing, then you want to google the "ANI chart"  (Affirmative, Negative, Interesting) and the Five Common Topics  (Aristotle).  When I googled there were some videos of people demonstrating how to fill out an ANI chart for various books.

[Momto6inIN]

I don't actually own LToW 😉 but I heard Andrea Lipinski from Circe give a talk at the latest Ohio Great Homeschool Convention and it outlined the discussion/question/invention process really well. I think you could implement the method in a discussion very easily just from listening to that talk or another similar one, but certainly you could buy the book and teach from that as well.

As for Argument Builder, we used it as a discussion jumping off point and didn't do the writing assignments. My kids are in debate club, so they get plenty of experience writing an argument with that activity. But it was good for thinking through what someone else was trying to say with their arguments.

[lewelma]

4 hours ago, A.M. said:

Thank you all very much for your valuable advice. I'm taking notes. 

A few questions that come up reading everyone's suggestions:

Regarding writing across the curriculum, just to clarify:
I didn't mean that my son was really fluent at outlining, summarizing, and paragraphs. He does all this, but is not proficient yet.
With writing across the curriculum I actually meant using this method as a means to improve those skills.

From your feedback though I am now feeling inclined to go ahead with the writing across the curriculum approach, and use bits and pieces of curricula I have at home to help him with issues as they come up.

I guess now I will need to identify which curricula I should have on my shelf and  'study' over the coming few months.

- @Ruth in NZ: I came across the writing plan you made years ago based on your evaluation of numerous 🙂 writing curricula.
I wonder whether you ended up implementing it in that way, and if you have any reflections on how it panned out. Maybe you have already shared this...

Specifically, you also mentioned planning to use Lost Tools of Writing in that plan. Do you feel it was a valuable addition for you? Should it be on my go-to resources shelf?

Improving speed: those suggestions are super super helpful. Thank you.
Ds's  speed is the thing I'm struggling to improve most, I think.

Oral composition: I'm not sure if I know what that means. Presentations? Or discussions with me that help structure ds's thoughts?

I'm asking you so many questions because I get the impression that my ds in some ways has a profile similar to your younger dc.

Grammar: this is our sit-and-relax activity. We do it for fun, and also because we are a multi-lingual family comparative grammar interests us. But yes, I agree with your integrative approach.

@Momto6inIN Very clear and helpful advice. Thank you!

I like your suggestion to have literature discussions in the style of LToW. Any suggestions how to do this without using the curriculum?
Perhaps you mean that I could study the curriculum myself, learn the approach, and then proceed to use parts of it in a natural way without actually having my son go through it?

As for Argument Builder, we do plan to study logic next year. Hence my idea to use it for writing as well, but I understand now that the writing instruction in it is not sufficient.
Did you like The Argument Builder? Easy to use? Interesting conversations? Hones thinking skills?
Would you say it would also be helpful with invention?

I did not implement the writing program that I laid out. Instead, I did what you mentioned above, I used bits and pieces from all the curriculum that I had read and taught it on a need to know basis. Basically, by reading all the different programs, I now knew how to teach writing and didn't need to follow them as written.  

LToW: Agreeing with Cintinative, you can use the ANI chart and the 5 common topics without getting buried in LToW

Writing across the curriculum: this is done exactly as you described.  You use the topics your kids is learning about, and teach them how to write with those topics.  It is much more efficient and usually more fun than a separate writing curriculum. So on the first essay, you make sure they know the 5 paragraph essay style and have them focus on that. Then you read it, and make 3 suggestions for edits - maybe one structural, one gramatical, and one stylistic. Then you start the new paper. You pick something to teach, maybe the hook and have him focus on that. Now you expect the essay to have both the 5 paragraph structure and the hook. Then you pick 3 things to edit on that paper and move on.  Rince and repeat.

Oral compositions: Have him orally write a paragraph. So if you are working on the hook. Have him say to you in 'written language' not casual oral language, a hook for 3 different topics that he is not going to write down, but is just practicing orally.

We also used to play an oral game called 'the best' that I made up. As fast as you can, tell me why the color paint used on my wall is the best. Next time it could be 'tell me why this style of heater is the best', "Why is xxx character in xxx movie is the best?". Whatever you want. First they list the 3 things. Then they have to orally write a very short  5-paragraph essay arguing for the best.  You do it too, where they pick the topic. It is a fun game, and you can make it harder and harder by picking things that the kid knows less and less about or that are more and more silly. 'why are those clouds the best?' 'Why is the drain outside our back door the best?' Anything you want. Really helped my kid get faster at thinking and writing the basics.

Grammar: if you love it, do it! My older boy loved it and did heaps.

 

[A.M.]

15 hours ago, lewelma said:

I did not implement the writing program that I laid out. Instead, I did what you mentioned above, I used bits and pieces from all the curriculum that I had read and taught it on a need to know basis. Basically, by reading all the different programs, I now knew how to teach writing and didn't need to follow them as written.  

LToW: Agreeing with Cintinative, you can use the ANI chart and the 5 common topics without getting buried in LToW

Writing across the curriculum: this is done exactly as you described.  You use the topics your kids is learning about, and teach them how to write with those topics.  It is much more efficient and usually more fun than a separate writing curriculum. So on the first essay, you make sure they know the 5 paragraph essay style and have them focus on that. Then you read it, and make 3 suggestions for edits - maybe one structural, one gramatical, and one stylistic. Then you start the new paper. You pick something to teach, maybe the hook and have him focus on that. Now you expect the essay to have both the 5 paragraph structure and the hook. Then you pick 3 things to edit on that paper and move on.  Rince and repeat.

Oral compositions: Have him orally write a paragraph. So if you are working on the hook. Have him say to you in 'written language' not casual oral language, a hook for 3 different topics that he is not going to write down, but is just practicing orally.

We also used to play an oral game called 'the best' that I made up. As fast as you can, tell me why the color paint used on my wall is the best. Next time it could be 'tell me why this style of heater is the best', "Why is xxx character in xxx movie is the best?". Whatever you want. First they list the 3 things. Then they have to orally write a very short  5-paragraph essay arguing for the best.  You do it too, where they pick the topic. It is a fun game, and you can make it harder and harder by picking things that the kid knows less and less about or that are more and more silly. 'why are those clouds the best?' 'Why is the drain outside our back door the best?' Anything you want. Really helped my kid get faster at thinking and writing the basics.

Grammar: if you love it, do it! My older boy loved it and did heaps.

 

These ideas are great, and sound like the sort of efficient activity ds needs.

Educators, including SWB, stress that we shouldn't teach two difficult skills at the same time. My impression is that for my ds writing more quickly is difficult, so when we are writing he is working on thinking skills and the physical handwriting at the same time.

These activities you are describing seem to separate these two skills. I look forward to the game you describe 🙂 I think I will have to work on his handwriting speed in other ways.

 

[A.M.]

15 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

I don't actually own LToW 😉 but I heard Andrea Lipinski from Circe give a talk at the latest Ohio Great Homeschool Convention and it outlined the discussion/question/invention process really well. I think you could implement the method in a discussion very easily just from listening to that talk or another similar one, but certainly you could buy the book and teach from that as well.

As for Argument Builder, we used it as a discussion jumping off point and didn't do the writing assignments. My kids are in debate club, so they get plenty of experience writing an argument with that activity. But it was good for thinking through what someone else was trying to say with their arguments.

Seems like The Argument Builder might work for us.

If anyone knows where to find the talk by Andrea Lipinski, that would be great. It didn't come up in my search.

[A.M.]

Thank you to everyone for the very helpful advice. I'm sorry for taking so much of your time!

This is what I consider doing:

- Have certain resources at hand and study them over the coming few months. 

- Some materials focus on teaching the teacher, such as SWB's talks about teaching writing, Comprehensive Composition (Stout), and IEW.

We have been using IEW SSSB1 this year so parts of the method should hopefully be easy to start using across the curriculum.

-  If more practice in specific areas, such as outlining, sentences and paragraphs, is needed I will look into Killgallon.

- I also have Lively Art of Writing which I will read in more detail for inspiration.

- We also plan to spend time studying logic. The Argument Builder seems to be good and suitable for ds's age.

- Lastly, I hope to be able to study Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student to get a better understanding of where we are heading.

I'm sure we will be adjusting as we go...

Very grateful to you all!

 

 

 

[ScoutTN]

I found both The Lively Art of Writing and Windows to the World to be helpful in teaching my student to write essays, though I didn’t use either exactly as written or completely. I also had her read many excellent essays so as to have good models in her mind.  

[A.M.]

4 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

I found both The Lively Art of Writing and Windows to the World to be helpful in teaching my student to write essays, though I didn’t use either exactly as written or completely. I also had her read many excellent essays so as to have good models in her mind.  

Thank you for reminding me of Windows to the World. Maybe a good one to use towards the end of the year for six weeks or so, so as to zoom in on literary analysis. I like that it uses short stories.

Any recommendations for good essay collections? For essays I have Breakfast on Mars in my cart. 

 

Under consideration is also, but need to look into it more:

Engaging Ideas: The Professor's Guide to Integrating Writing, Critical Thinking, and Active Learning in the Classroom, 3rd Edition