Questions about MCT language arts

[ScholarlyP]

Hi,

If you are using MCT language art, do you use the whole homeschool package or part of it (only the grammar)? We already have Structure and Style from IEW. I guess it more gears toward writing. I am not sure it's duplicated if we use bot MCT and Structure and Style at the same time. 

In addition, is there anyone who has the experience about the online MCT language art program? Is it a good resource if the parents would like to put their energy in other subjects? Thank  you!

[wendyroo]

We have never done any MCT online classes. We also don't do the entire MCT curriculum, but I do LOVE some of the books.

I really like the poetry books, and I just rotate through reading levels 1-3 to all my kids during snack time. I also read through The Poetry of Literature with my 7th grader.

Somewhere during second or third grade, my kids read through Grammar Island and Sentence Island with me. Then we slowly work through Practice Island.

During upper elementary they work through Caesar's English 1 and 2 (vocabulary).

Then I round out their grammar with the 4Practice books 1-3...these are the practice books that go along with the Magic Lens books, but we don't use the Magic Lens books, just the practice sentences and explanations.

The way MCT talks about language is really phenomenal, and not something I have found in other curricula.

[Clemsondana]

With both kids I've used the whole package through the Voyage level, and my older has continued through level 6.  The writing isn't enough if you use it as your whole writing (except the voyage level - Essay Voyage is great), but in the early levels it helped my kids to see some things that they needed to be doing.  I think that he's coming from the expectation that of course students do other writing, but make sure to do these things...but for parents they may want something more spelled-out.  But, his explanation of grammar, especially in the early years, was fantastic, the poetry was eye-opening for a STEM person like  me, and the vocabulary introduced all sorts of words and roots that are useful to know.  We've never done the online classes.  

[daijobu]

We only used the textbooks.  The grammar books are terrific and my kids were solid after that the 4 Level Sentence Analysis in the Practice books.  I also have lots of love for Caesar's English, which is a beautiful approach to vocabulary.  Word Within the Word was a disappointment by comparison.  

We dropped the poetry curriculum for time, but I wish we hadn't.  I did not fully appreciate how poetics can enhance all of your writing, and I wish we'd kept it up.  

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

We use all aspects of MCT, spreading each level across 2yrs & using a more explicit writing program in-between the writing books; IEW, CAP W&R, Killgallon. We also participate in NaNoWriMo each year. 

We don’t have any experience with the online classes. 

[Ting Tang]

On 3/13/2022 at 8:38 AM, Shoes+Ships+SealingWax said:

We use all aspects of MCT, spreading each level across 2yrs & using a more explicit writing program in-between the writing books; IEW, CAP W&R, Killgallon. We also participate in NaNoWriMo each year. 

We don’t have any experience with the online classes. 

Sorry to interject. You recommended MCT to me. I’ve considered it for my struggling reader, but now I’m considering it for my more accelerated reader. He used to be in the advanced groups in public school, but I’m not sure he’s “gifted.” Should we start at the Island level, even if he’d be in 5th grade? I think we might need a separate writing curriculum, though we’d use the MCT writing books. Or is that overkill, even if you only choose one or two writing assignments from MCT? We’d likely skip the literature at the Island level because I’d rather he read classics— or is that a no no? He’s a more mature 10 year old in some regards, but he’s not the most ahem motivated to go above and beyond. This might help him slow down and think? 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Ting Tang

[8filltheheart]

 

21 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

Sorry to interject. You recommended MCT to me. I’ve considered it for my struggling reader, but now I’m considering it for my more accelerated reader. He used to be in the advanced groups in public school, but I’m not sure he’s “gifted.” Should we start at the Island level, even if he’d be in 5th grade? I think we might need a separate writing curriculum, though we’d use the MCT writing books. Or is that overkill, even if you only choose one or two writing assignments from MCT? We’d likely skip the literature at the Island level because I’d rather he read classics— or is that a no no? He’s a more mature 10 year old in some regards, but he’s not the most ahem motivated to go above and beyond. This might help him slow down and think? 

Definitely do not go all the way back to Island for grammar.  The grammar even at the Voyage level is very simple grammar.  I didn't use the lower levels, only Voyage, but I was not impressed with the writing instruction.  (I'm sure if you search old threads, you can find my reviews of Essay Voyage).  MCT's strength is in generating a strong appreciation for language, but his actual instruction for writing, unless you know how to teach it directly, is going to be a "here is the forest; this is what you want to achieve," vs this is how you do this.  His lower levels might offer more direct instruction, though. (And I believe he teaches students how to use quotes incorrectly in Voyage.)

I think Caeser's English is where his love of language shines.  It is a great vocab program.  

Edited April 19, 2022 by 8filltheheart

[Ting Tang]

3 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

 

Definitely do not go all the way back to Island for grammar.  The grammar even at the Voyage level is very simple grammar.  I didn't use the lower levels, only Voyage, but I was not impressed with the writing instruction.  (I'm sure if you search old threads, you can find my reviews of Essay Voyage).  MCT's strength is in generating a strong appreciation for language, but his actual instruction for writing, unless you know how to teach it directly, is going to be a "here is the forest; this is what you want to achieve," vs this is how you do this.  His lower levels might offer more direct instruction, though.

I think Caeser's English is where his love of language shines.  It is a great vocab program.  

Thank you so much! I think I need a more procedural program for writing for him. I just wondered if the rest of the program might be better if introduced in smaller chunks? But I certainly do not want to go to younger levels if it’s too babyish. I feel like maybe we need to build more stamina with the instruction and depth, but I also hesitate to put him on a path that is behind grade level. 

[8filltheheart]

I'd skip MCT based on what you are describing.

[Clemsondana]

The lower levels of MCT encourage students to think about what they are writing - every word has a purpose, and they come together to make sentences, which have a purpose, which come together to make paragraphs, etc...  It was good for my kids who tended to want to 'brain dump'.  But, the early levels focus on simple things.  Island focuses on sentences, for instance, which would be overkill for most advanced 5th graders.  We love MCT and found the lower levels of writing to be helpful but we were also using them with younger kids.  The vocab and poetry were great for our family.  The writing wasn't explicit enough for one of my kids, but was helpful for the other.  I think for that kid, things like Essay Voyage helped them to see how audience, vocab choices, and tone fit together to fit a piece to its intended purpose.  But, if you need step-by-step instruction, MCT probably isn't the best place to get that.  For my kid that benefited the most from it, having the examples and saying 'Look - see how these paragraphs support the thesis, while in this narrative it's arranged chronologically?' was enough to help them figure out how to organize their own work.  That's not going to work the same way for every kid.  

[Ting Tang]

32 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

I'd skip MCT based on what you are describing.

I wondered if he’d find it less boring. He didn’t like the Memoria Press materials we used very much this year. But I feel like I need more of a concrete writing program for myself? 

[Ting Tang]

7 minutes ago, Clemsondana said:

The lower levels of MCT encourage students to think about what they are writing - every word has a purpose, and they come together to make sentences, which have a purpose, which come together to make paragraphs, etc...  It was good for my kids who tended to want to 'brain dump'.  But, the early levels focus on simple things.  Island focuses on sentences, for instance, which would be overkill for most advanced 5th graders.  We love MCT and found the lower levels of writing to be helpful but we were also using them with younger kids.  The vocab and poetry were great for our family.  The writing wasn't explicit enough for one of my kids, but was helpful for the other.  I think for that kid, things like Essay Voyage helped them to see how audience, vocab choices, and tone fit together to fit a piece to its intended purpose.  But, if you need step-by-step instruction, MCT probably isn't the best place to get that.  For my kid that benefited the most from it, having the examples and saying 'Look - see how these paragraphs support the thesis, while in this narrative it's arranged chronologically?' was enough to help them figure out how to organize their own work.  That's not going to work the same way for every kid.  

Thank you so much for all of this, too. When you say overkill, do you mean too much harping on only sentences, I assume? I also have a rising 2nd grader I thought might enjoy the series. She lives the Poodle samples from the website, but maybe she’d need Island. She’s using Abeka 1st now. But then there is the question of continuing phonics for another year…

[Clemsondana]

6 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

Thank you so much for all of this, too. When you say overkill, do you mean too much harping on only sentences, I assume? I also have a rising 2nd grader I thought might enjoy the series. She lives the Poodle samples from the website, but maybe she’d need Island. She’s using Abeka 1st now. But then there is the question of continuing phonics for another year…

The writing bits in the early levels are actually really short - it's mostly that I wouldn't recommend going to the expense of buying it for an older student.  In terms of time, they could do it pretty quickly.  If you choose to buy it for a younger student, you could easily have an older student look over it.  We did it orally, mostly, so you might be able to do it as a family.  

[8filltheheart]

What are his strengths and weaknesses in writing?  Can he write a paragraph and stay on topic?  Can he write sentences with various sentence structures?  Are his sentences complete thoughts?  Are they interesting? 

If you tease out what he needs, it might be easier to offer suggestions that fit his needs and grade level.

[Ting Tang]

16 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

What are his strengths and weaknesses in writing?  Can he write a paragraph and stay on topic?  Can he write sentences with various sentence structures?  Are his sentences complete thoughts?  Are they interesting? 

If you tease out what he needs, it might be easier to offer suggestions that fit his needs and grade level.

He can do all those things, but if it’s an assignment that makes him grumble, he may not have the most interesting sentences. We are using Memoria Press for Fable with him. It’s been helpful, and I like it. He does not like it at all. He’d prefer open-ended, creative writing. 

[8filltheheart]

12 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

He can do all those things, but if it’s an assignment that makes him grumble, he may not have the most interesting sentences. We are using Memoria Press for Fable with him. It’s been helpful, and I like it. He does not like it at all. He’d prefer open-ended, creative writing. 

FWIW, I have never assigned my kids a writing assignment from a writing curriculum.  I have only ever created assignments that have met their needs.  You can offer creative assignments.  He can be a reporter at a historical event.  He can be a novelist.  He can create a non-fiction chpt book on planets, animals, oceanography (whatever his interests are).  The point of the assignments is to develop skills.  

Edited April 19, 2022 by 8filltheheart

[Ting Tang]

1 hour ago, 8filltheheart said:

FWIW, I have never assigned my kids a writing assignment from a writing curriculum.  I have only ever created assignments that have met their needs.  You can offer creative assignments.  He can be a reporter at a historical event.  He can be a novelist.  He can create a non-fiction chpt book on planets, animals, oceanography (whatever his interests are).  The point of the assignments is to develop skills.  

He might prefer that. He will create and write stories of his own for fun. We just didn’t have the greatest year, so I’ve been on the hunt for materials I think would appeal to my kids. 

[Ting Tang]

3 hours ago, Clemsondana said:

The writing bits in the early levels are actually really short - it's mostly that I wouldn't recommend going to the expense of buying it for an older student.  In terms of time, they could do it pretty quickly.  If you choose to buy it for a younger student, you could easily have an older student look over it.  We did it orally, mostly, so you might be able to do it as a family.  

Thank you so much.  Now I have looked at the Voyage level for my oldest, and I think it could work for him...except it coordinates with Caesar's English II, and we'd be skipping I on the vocabulary side.  Do people ever skip Caesar's English I and start with II I wonder?

I may get the younger books, even if only for reading.  My daughter is a pretty intuitive reader, but I do feel it can't hurt to do another year of formal phonics training with her. And those curriculums seem to come with most everything.  I think I just need to scrimp and save on certain things and spend on others, lol.

[Dianthus]

3 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

I wondered if he’d find it less boring. He didn’t like the Memoria Press materials we used very much this year. But I feel like I need more of a concrete writing program for myself? 

It is less boring for sure. I had my old set of MCT that was a bust with my dd. After our MP misery and realizing that he had the parts of speech mixed up even after all the supposed memory work, I broke out the MCT again for ds10 a little over a month ago. We did Grammar island and now are on Sentence Island. It is just gently explaining parts of speech and sentence structure in story form. I don't know that it's enough for a year, but for a shoulder season read through to get him understanding, it is great. When I'm done, we'll listen to Grammarland again and hope he gets it.

His writing is pretty good. He's doing IEW ATF&F. He can use grammar just gets annoyed with the terminology. I'm wondering if FixIt would be good for my guy next year. I'm going to work on diagramming with him over the summer. I think that will also help him.

[Ting Tang]

31 minutes ago, Spirea said:

It is less boring for sure. I had my old set of MCT that was a bust with my dd. After our MP misery and realizing that he had the parts of speech mixed up even after all the supposed memory work, I broke out the MCT again for ds10 a little over a month ago. We did Grammar island and now are on Sentence Island. It is just gently explaining parts of speech and sentence structure in story form. I don't know that it's enough for a year, but for a shoulder season read through to get him understanding, it is great. When I'm done, we'll listen to Grammarland again and hope he gets it.

His writing is pretty good. He's doing IEW ATF&F. He can use grammar just gets annoyed with the terminology. I'm wondering if FixIt would be good for my guy next year. I'm going to work on diagramming with him over the summer. I think that will also help him.

We didn’t do the EGR memorization. I can’t believe the amount required if you do every single subject. I still feel if you have to turn out articles about how learning isn’t fun, it’s because there were concerns… lol.  I can see how MCT would be refreshing after that! I’m sure what you covered has been enough. I really like how IEW looks for grammar and writing, too! 

[8filltheheart]

2 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

We didn’t do the EGR memorization. I can’t believe the amount required if you do every single subject. I still feel if you have to turn out articles about how learning isn’t fun, it’s because there were concerns… lol.  I can see how MCT would be refreshing after that! I’m sure what you covered has been enough. I really like how IEW looks for grammar and writing, too! 

Learning can be every enjoyable.  Even if I was offered MP for free for all 12 yrs, including MP online, I would run the other way.   My kids have NEVER touched a workbook, filled in worksheets, etc.  I don't give tests. They read.  We discuss.  They write.  They graduate from high school running full speed ahead and graduate from college with honors.  Learning in our homeschool is about instilling internal motivation to want to learn more and doesn't look anything like a classroom.  

[Ting Tang]

I love this. I cut out a lot from MP to the point I wasted so much money on materials. Every so often in certain courses, the teacher manual offers multi sensory activities or ideas for wonderful discussion, but the way it’s designed, it is not prioritized. I think it’s why I am so drawn to MCT.  Since we switched Latin programs away from MP, my son often says how the new one is so much better. We enjoy just reading it together. MP puts me in an authoritative role… in a bad way for us right now. 

[Dianthus]

2 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

I love this. I cut out a lot from MP to the point I wasted so much money on materials. Every so often in certain courses, the teacher manual offers multi sensory activities or ideas for wonderful discussion, but the way it’s designed, it is not prioritized. I think it’s why I am so drawn to MCT.  Since we switched Latin programs away from MP, my son often says how the new one is so much better. We enjoy just reading it together. MP puts me in an authoritative role… in a bad way for us right now. 

I just got an MP catalog. It still looks beautiful.  Great lit. Great articles. I so hate those books now. And it's not like I wasn't warned. I just was convinced it would be this wonderful program. I told the kids they'd need to work really hard because this would be so great for us, but ugh. What a waste of money.

MCT leans the other way. I don't think it's the answer either. It's right for my son right now, but definitely not for everyone. I bought MCT thinking it was the cutting edge program for my dd. She thought it was stupid and hated it. And for my son, it's filling a gap for a couple months but doesn't seem "enough" for a year of school.

Have you done First Language Lessons? It is very simple but has really good content. It was hard for me the first time because it's scripted. It has poetry memorization, grammar, and diagramming.

[Ting Tang]

11 hours ago, Spirea said:

I just got an MP catalog. It still looks beautiful.  Great lit. Great articles. I so hate those books now. And it's not like I wasn't warned. I just was convinced it would be this wonderful program. I told the kids they'd need to work really hard because this would be so great for us, but ugh. What a waste of money.

MCT leans the other way. I don't think it's the answer either. It's right for my son right now, but definitely not for everyone. I bought MCT thinking it was the cutting edge program for my dd. She thought it was stupid and hated it. And for my son, it's filling a gap for a couple months but doesn't seem "enough" for a year of school.

Have you done First Language Lessons? It is very simple but has really good content. It was hard for me the first time because it's scripted. It has poetry memorization, grammar, and diagramming.

We seem so alike! I really hyped MP up in my head. I bought our materials for this year last February. But alas,,what a big disappointment. I do like 1 or 2 things, but as an entire curriculum, it’s just a lot. Rote memorization in every subject wasn’t for my students. MCT does look wonderful, and I’ve watched the promo videos, but it’s also a sales pitch— so I truly value everyone’s opinions and experiences here. I have looked at FLL a bit, but I’ll have to go back again. I plan to write a list eventually and sit down with the kids. Next year needs to be better! 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Ting Tang

[Dianthus]

17 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

We seem so alike! I really hyped MP up in my head. I bought our materials for this year last February. But alas,,what a big disappointment. I do like 1 or 2 things, but as an entire curriculum, it’s just a lot. It’s great for a robot child! Lol MCT does look wonderful, and I’ve watched the promo videos, but it’s also a sales pitch— so I truly value everyone’s opinions and experiences here. I have looked at FLL a bit, but I’ll have to go back again. I plan to write a list eventually and sit down with the kids. Next year needs to be better! 

FLL is also cheap, so a less painful experiment.

I bought my MCT on ebay, so you could shop around.

[Ting Tang]

51 minutes ago, Spirea said:

FLL is also cheap, so a less painful experiment.

I bought my MCT on ebay, so you could shop around.

Oooh I like that! I’ll take a look at it again, thank you! I’ll also check used fir MCT if we go that route. 😊

[Green Bean]

If your kid and you didn’t like MP, you aren’t going to be enthralled with FLL, either. A huge part of classical education is memorization. 

MP isn’t for “robot children”, btw. That is incredibly insulting to those of us who use it and our children who thrive with it. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Green Bean

[Dianthus]

37 minutes ago, Green Bean said:

If your kid and you didn’t like MP, you aren’t going to be enthralled with FLL, either. A huge part of classical education is memorization. 

MP isn’t for “robot children”, btw. That is incredibly insulting to those of us who use it and our children who thrive with it. 

FLL is much different than MP!  Much less writing, more hands on. The memorization is extremely gentle by comparison. When there is poetry memorization, read the poem to the child 3 times a day for a week, chants for helping verbs and pronouns during the lesson. "Repeat after me, a noun is the name of a person place thing or idea" 3 times when learning those definitions. No flashcards, writing is very light, sometimes none. Diagrams have lines drawn, and child just fills in the parts of the sentence.

The problem I had the first time using FLL was that there were NO instructions in the student book. I had to be there, explaining how to do the exercises. In that sense, it is not a "workbook program" like MP at all. It cannot be done independently. I don't think any lessons through level 3 took more than 20 min per day. The lessons vary quite a bit, where MP every lesson is the same format.

It's good MP works for you and must for many others, however I don't think it is at all similar to FLL.

[Dianthus]

1 hour ago, Ting Tang said:

Oooh I like that! I’ll take a look at it again, thank you! I’ll also check used fir MCT if we go that route. 😊

Hey, did you ever get to a convention? I'm sure there will be something in your area. Absolutely try to get to one. I think you'd really benefit to seeing these options in person. 

[Ting Tang]

9 hours ago, Green Bean said:

If your kid and you didn’t like MP, you aren’t going to be enthralled with FLL, either. A huge part of classical education is memorization. 

MP isn’t for “robot children”, btw. That is incredibly insulting to those of us who use it and our children who thrive with it. 

I’m sorry.  That wasn’t my intention with that comment. It’s honestly how I have felt with our materials this year for my kids(directed at the company, not anyone else)—we chose to memorize in certain areas rather than all. As a child, it would’ve worked well for me, but the focus on recitation isn’t for everyone, which is true with many approaches. I am glad you had more success with it! I will edit my comment. I understand memorization is a part of education, too.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Ting Tang

[Ting Tang]

7 hours ago, Spirea said:

Hey, did you ever get to a convention? I'm sure there will be something in your area. Absolutely try to get to one. I think you'd really benefit to seeing these options in person. 

I didn’t, and we have one coming, but we already have a prior commitment, so I’m still relying on samples and all of you, 😂 

[Ting Tang]

8 hours ago, Spirea said:

FLL is much different than MP!  Much less writing, more hands on. The memorization is extremely gentle by comparison. When there is poetry memorization, read the poem to the child 3 times a day for a week, chants for helping verbs and pronouns during the lesson. "Repeat after me, a noun is the name of a person place thing or idea" 3 times when learning those definitions. No flashcards, writing is very light, sometimes none. Diagrams have lines drawn, and child just fills in the parts of the sentence.

The problem I had the first time using FLL was that there were NO instructions in the student book. I had to be there, explaining how to do the exercises. In that sense, it is not a "workbook program" like MP at all. It cannot be done independently. I don't think any lessons through level 3 took more than 20 min per day. The lessons vary quite a bit, where MP every lesson is the same format.

It's good MP works for you and must for many others, however I don't think it is at all similar to FLL.

I still haven’t gone and looked again. I’m definitely going to proceed with caution with everything. 

[Ting Tang]

16 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

Learning can be every enjoyable.  Even if I was offered MP for free for all 12 yrs, including MP online, I would run the other way.   My kids have NEVER touched a workbook, filled in worksheets, etc.  I don't give tests. They read.  We discuss.  They write.  They graduate from high school running full speed ahead and graduate from college with honors.  Learning in our homeschool is about instilling internal motivation to want to learn more and doesn't look anything like a classroom.  

Sorry, I don’t know how to tag here. Many years ago, I believe you made a post/comment about the MCT Voyage level and proper use of quotations. Do you know if that’s been corrected? A video said they revised the curriculum a lot. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Ting Tang

[8filltheheart]

1 hour ago, Ting Tang said:

Sorry, I don’t know how to tag here. Many years ago, I believe you made a list about the MCT Voyage level and proper use of quotations. Do you know if that’s been corrected? A video said they revised the curriculum a lot. 

I have no idea.  The only part of the curriculum I liked was Caesar's English.  I appreciated one essay in the Voyage Essay text (Something like The Apple is RIdiculous).   I haven't looked in yrs bc the issues of using too many block quotes and using quotes as the argument vs using quotes to support the argument are huge writing errors from my perspective, so I dismissed his curriculum as an option for us.   He may have changed the curriculum completely since then.  (My dd was in something like 6th grade when I used Voyage and she is now 23.)  

Edited April 20, 2022 by 8filltheheart

[Ting Tang]

8 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

I have no idea.  The only part of the curriculum I liked was Caesar's English.  I appreciated one essay in the Voyage Essay text (Something like The Apple is RIdiculous).   I haven't looked in yrs bc the issues of using too many block quotes and using quotes as the argument vs using quotes to support the argument are huge writing errors, so I dismissed his curriculum as an option for us.   He may have changed the curriculum completely since then.  (My dd was in something like 6th grade when I used Voyage and she is now 23.)  

Thanks so much! I may contact the company to ask. My fear is teaching my children something that is incorrect without even realizing it. I wrote papers, but it’s been so long. I hope I’d be able to recognize something like this.  The vocabulary books do look fantastic. I am relying on the experts to put out accurate curriculum, though. 

[Dianthus]

2 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

I didn’t, and we have one coming, but we already have a prior commitment, so I’m still relying on samples and all of you, 😂 

Honestly, I would try to cancel the other commitment. If impossible, look for another homeschool event in your area. I think I remember your state and there looks to be a lot coming up around there. I have never been to a big convention, but the small conference I've attended with a small group of vendors has been incredibly helpful. Prioritize getting to something like that. You won't regret it.

YouTube reviews can be helpful also, when they are flip through the books for you.

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

On 4/19/2022 at 8:09 AM, Ting Tang said:

Sorry to interject. You recommended MCT to me. I’ve considered it for my struggling reader, but now I’m considering it for my more accelerated reader. 

I would begin with either Town or Voyage - definitely not Island. Each level contains the information from the prior level, so it may just mean moving more slowly if quite a bit is new - or skipping some of the finer details on the first read-through, then reading back through in greater depth. 

We do tend to use a more structured writing program to introduce each type of writing, then read through the MCT writing level for that topic to stretch the ability & get a preview of what’s next. DS wrote paragraphs for a year or so before we began MCT Town, for instance. 

DS really enjoys the focus on appreciating clear, beautiful language - particularly within the writing & poetics books. The forest view gives meaning to the work within the trees & keeps it from getting monotonous. 
 

Now I have looked at the Voyage level for my oldest, and I think it could work for him...except it coordinates with Caesar's English II, and we'd be skipping I on the vocabulary side.  Do people ever skip Caesar's English I and start with II I wonder?

Aside from the Writing & Grammar texts, feel free to mix & match books between levels. It’s not a problem to complete CE I alongside Voyage materials. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Shoes+Ships+SealingWax

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

On 4/19/2022 at 9:24 AM, Clemsondana said:

The writing bits in the early levels are actually really short…

We did it orally, mostly, so you might be able to do it as a family.  

Seconding this. It’s very much a “snuggle on the couch & read” type of material in the early levels. Also, you absolutely don’t need all of the pieces. The TMs contain the complete text of the SBs plus a few little notes & the assignments - I always grab secondhand copies of TMs only. 

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

Added to prior response; failed to multiquote. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Shoes+Ships+SealingWax

[Dianthus]

5 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

Sorry, I don’t know how to tag here. 

Use the @ symbol, then type the user name, and click the pop-up to link.

[Ting Tang]

5 hours ago, Spirea said:

Honestly, I would try to cancel the other commitment. If impossible, look for another homeschool event in your area. I think I remember your state and there looks to be a lot coming up around there. I have never been to a big convention, but the small conference I've attended with a small group of vendors has been incredibly helpful. Prioritize getting to something like that. You won't regret it.

YouTube reviews can be helpful also, when they are flip through the books for you.

I wish I could, but I believe it is during a state-level competition for us.  😞  Maybe there are more I have missed?  I am going to check.  My plan is to buy absolutely nothing until this school year is complete, I have a short list, and my kids review the options with me.  (I know there are no guarantees with that, either.)  If I can find one, I would love to go look at materials.  I have done some pf the flip-throughs---those are helpful!  Thank you so much!

[Ting Tang]

3 hours ago, Shoes+Ships+SealingWax said:

Added to prior response; failed to multiquote. 

Thank you very much!  I read on the MCT site if you bought the entire "packages," it would give you a plan for implementation.  But the website has a loose one, so I wonder what the difference is?  I'll have to figure out what our budget it, but I'd otherwise have no qualms about buying the TMs only.  I just wonder if that "plan" is worth it, or will it be like a few others that sit on the shelf, lol.   I'm quite excited about the vocabulary as of this moment.  I think for my rising 5th grader, it might be best to start with Town anyway, so we could just do everything in that same level.  Even though MP wasn't my friend this year, I might stick with Classical Composition (that is one of the products I do like from MP) or do IEW for my oldest, too.  It seems like we could possibly do a bit of both MCT and the composition.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Ting Tang

[8filltheheart]

You don't need a plan for MCT.  It is a sit and discuss type program and you just do whatever fits your day.  It is not hard to figure out how to navigate and move through.

[Ting Tang]

10 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

You don't need a plan for MCT.  It is a sit and discuss type program and you just do whatever fits your day.  It is not hard to figure out how to navigate and move through.

Thank you!  I don't mind paying for beautiful, colorful materials, of course, but I will be buying curriculum for four this year, so I do need to be mindful.  The packages with the plan are $300-ish I believe.

 

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

52 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

I read on the MCT site if you bought the entire "packages," it would give you a plan for implementation.  But the website has a loose one, so I wonder what the difference is? 

It’s a day-by-day, week-by-week schedule for the materials. Completely unnecessary, IMO. You can generally find a Level of TMs secondhand for $75-$150 shipped. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Shoes+Ships+SealingWax

[Ting Tang]

47 minutes ago, Shoes+Ships+SealingWax said:

It’s a day-by-day, week-by-week schedule for the materials. Completely unnecessary, IMO. You can generally find a Level of TMs secondhand for $75-$150 shipped. 

Oh thank you for sharing!  That is how our Abeka is, but the teaching content is also in it.  But I didn't use our Memoria Press curriculum manual at all this year as the books were divided into lessons.

[Ting Tang]

10 hours ago, Lovinglife123 said:

@Ting TangYou have to be realistic with your time first and foremost, 4 kids all 6th & under.. you can not do it all.  Might help to plan your time first for each needed subject (spelling, phonics, math, writing/grammar) for each child and see what curriculum can fit in that timeframe.  Plan for your instruction time, and how long you want them to work independently.  Also plan for interruptions.  For example, We like to be done with formal schooling by lunch for elementary kids (k-6).  That means I have from about 9-12, half of that is interrupted.  So realistically I only have 1.5 hours or less of formal schooling for all 4 kids (toddler not included).  I like their seat work to be about an hour or less.  

Math 25 (5 instruction minutes each), 3 kids have grammar/writing 10 min (3 minutes instruction), 2 kids- spelling 5 minutes (1 minute instruction), phonics for 2 kids- 25 minutes for older, 10 minutes for younger all instruction, group lessons 45 minutes (all instruction/read aloud).  After lunch I try to read aloud to the youngers.  The olders read independently for history/science in addition to what we cover for group lessons.  This is all subject to change as the youngest gets older, we have less distractions and they all become more independent.  

The best curriculum is the one that gets done and done well.

It is definitely a struggle and full of interruptions.  My oldest does not like to do anything independently, which is fine, but sometimes I feel like there is a lot of hand holding and me doing a lot for him.  I feel like that has to end, so I am looking at some alternatives or different methods to achieve the learning on his end.  Next year it will definitely be more complicated with a Kindergartener.  I'd love to outsource something, but the classes are expensive, and some of them run 1.5 hours online.  I can see my son not being super attentive for that entire time span--  Also, when I criticized MP, I think the main issue is it just isn't for my type of son. I would have thrived with it, but he is definitely not me.  I shouldn't have said it was for robot kids originally.  I think it is for kids who are willing to do the academic work in that manner.  I definitely need to regroup!

[Ting Tang]

On 4/23/2022 at 10:10 AM, Lovinglife123 said:

My oldest doesn’t either, so we use rewards, usually Minecraft for 20 minutes once school is complete.  He has very little work, it is barebones, but plenty of interest led learning.  He is probably the same age.  I just wanted to encourage you not to look at curriculum, but to look at your time first.  It’s easy to try and do all the things that look fun and pretty for every single subject.  I do not outsource anything.  I can’t imagine MP working for my family either, so no offense taken.  I do like their famous men series!  But not with the guides, just as a reader.

Rewards do help sometimes over here!  He is 10, and he would prefer to do very little school work as well, but he does enjoy learning on his own terms.  I appreciate your advice on looking at my time.  Sometimes I worry someone is getting shortchanged.  I understand MCT is not independent, but my son always wants me to watch him do all of his work, so my time is tied up anyway.  MP has some really nice components and choices. I don't think I will be buying student workbooks from that company anymore.  I would buy the teacher manuals and then have my kids use regular notebooks, something along those lines.