TOG vs. "traditional English"

[Dooley]

OK, I understand that HS English should consist of 4 courses, including World, American and British lit. How does this compare if you decide to use TOG in say, sophomore year?

 

I have always been heavy lit, this year using Smarr Intro to Lit., considering TOG year 2 next year to incorporate everybody, but this is one of the questions I have. Does it all "come out in the wash", I mean, say you use TOG throughout high school, or in my case, for three of the four years, do you end up getting World, American and British lit??

[Julie in MN]

I'm not sure where you're coming from when you say what high school English "should" include? My experience is that high school English can be a variety of things, depending on the student's weaknesses, interests, goals, etc. Are you wishing to follow a particular suggested course?

 

If you want World, British, & American lit, that should easily be accomplished alongside history programs that cover more the last 200 years thoroughly.

 

Well, just trying to start the conversation...

[Beth in SW WA]

OK, I understand that HS English should consist of 4 courses, including World, American and British lit.

 

That is not set in stone. You get to decide what your dc cover in Lit. Oddly, we will cover those you mention, only because that is our interest. I will probably do a semester of Brit Lit & a semester of World Lit during 12th.

 

9th: Ancient (Iliad, Odyssey, Sophocles, etc)

10th: Medieval/Ren (Beowulf, Sir Gawain, Pilgrim's Progress, Confessions,etc)

11th: US

12th: Brit/World (Shakespeare, Tolkien, Austin, Dickens, Tolstoy, etc)

[Dooley]

...even though what I posted is the way it has been for many years (at least in CA) overall, looks like you ladies feel that it does not have to be that strict? Or that delineated, I guess? Is this your experience? Do you think these groupings (world, American, British) are suggestions only?

 

Boy, I read this back and it sounds like I am asking with a chip on my shoulder! I am not....honest questions!!!!:confused:

[Renee in NC]

...even though what I posted is the way it has been for many years (at least in CA) overall, looks like you ladies feel that it does not have to be that strict? Or that delineated, I guess? Is this your experience? Do you think these groupings (world, American, British) are suggestions only?

 

Boy, I read this back and it sounds like I am asking with a chip on my shoulder! I am not....honest questions!!!!:confused:

 

I think that generally, yes, it tends to run General, World, American, British in most ps. However, many private schools and ps charters do it differently. Tying literature in with history is generally accepted - when I went to ps, we did World History/World Lit in 10th and American History/American Lit in 11th. General was done in 9th with Civics and British was done in 12th when some people took AP European History.

[The Governess]

I believe that with TOG or any curriculum that has a 4-year history cycle, you will cover U.S., British, and World literature but just in chronological order rather than as separate topics.

[Julie in MN]

...even though what I posted is the way it has been for many years (at least in CA) overall, looks like you ladies feel that it does not have to be that strict?

 

That was what I was saying. I guess I'm not familiar with CA schools, but have been to schools around the country. Names of courses vary a lot. Probably the most popular course names I've seen are "English 9, English 10, English 11, and English 12."

 

If you have those AP-type students, they tend to specialize more. I've seen the lit you mention, but also courses like Shakespeare, Drama/Theater, Russian literature, Poetry, and more.

 

If you don't have AP-type students, then coursework tends to include a little literature each year and exposure to other genres, balanced with some grammar, word roots, and other basic skills.

 

*You* get to decide what *you* require in *your* school! I think as long as (a) it's high school level work and (b) it's named truthfully, you will be fine :o) I also apologize if I was not coming across sweetly enough. I panic when folks say homeschoolers *must* do certain things -- that freedom was hard-fought!

[Jackie in AR]

OK, I understand that HS English should consist of 4 courses, including World, American and British lit. How does this compare if you decide to use TOG in say, sophomore year?

 

I have always been heavy lit, this year using Smarr Intro to Lit., considering TOG year 2 next year to incorporate everybody, but this is one of the questions I have. Does it all "come out in the wash", I mean, say you use TOG throughout high school, or in my case, for three of the four years, do you end up getting World, American and British lit??

 

TOG gives some guidance for High School Credits and Course Descriptions here.

 

(To get to that page, go to The Loom, then Helps For All Year Plans, then Dialectic/Rhetoric Helps.)

 

They haven't yet posted info for Year 4, but you could extrapolate from what they have for the prior years.

 

If you're using Years 2 through 4, you'll cover everything except Ancient literature.

[Dooley]

I was trying to compare TOG to separate lit courses. My underlying "dilemma", if you will, is should I buy TOG year 2 for next year. I have enough stuff to teach without it, except for an English 2 for my high schooler.

 

Thanks for thinking with me! I appreciate every comment- Sharon

[Michelle in AL]

I think it depends on what you want to emphasize. I haven't used TOG for 2 yrs and then it was with logic stage kids, but to me it seemed TOG emphasized thinking critically about history. I prefer to emphasize thinking and writing critically about literature. I'm not sure if TOG has a strong elements of literature aspect in the rhetoric level, I know it didn't in the logic stage.

 

For me, if it didn't have a strong focus on literary analysis then I'd prefer Omnibus or separate study guides. If you or your kids want to focus on history, than TOG may be the way to go.

[Rhondabee]

Is there a reason you wouldn't use Smarr again for next year? (I just can't imagine forking over all the $$$ for TOG, and then using only the lit section.)

[Kareni]

Just chiming in to state that I too do not believe it has to be so specific as World, American, and British Lit.

 

Here's what my senior has done to date:

 

9th: World Literature from 1700 to 2000 (1 credit). This was a homemade course to accompany World History of the same time period.

 

10th: Essay Writing (1/2 credit); Literature: Chaucer (1/4 credit); and Literature: Greek Theater (1/4 credit). These were all out of the home classes.

 

11th: Two composition classes and a Survey of World Literature class. These were all 4 credit classes at our local community college which is on a quarter system. On her transcript, I'm equating these to 1/2 credit each or 1.5 high school credits for the year.

 

12th: Latino/a Literature (currently) and Introduction to Folklore and Mythology (next quarter) at the community college. Once again, these are 4 credit classes for which I'll award 1/2 high school credit each. She may take another composition class in the spring quarter. That is still to be decided.

 

Good luck making your plan!

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Dooley]

I love Smarr!

 

And I love TOG.....argh. I will probably just go with Smarr since I already have an awesome World History text...

[Rhondabee]

Cool ~ I am looking at a used copy of Smarr now as a possibility for next year. I do like the scheduled reading, the vocabulary, and the recall questions. I do wish he had some more teacher's notes for the more involved questions, but I guess nothing's perfect!