Question about writing curriculum

[Elizabeth86]

I have hesitated asking, but I must ask you all about this.  I cannot decide on writing curriculum.  I have always been a traditional homeschooler.  I never really looked at the classical approach very much.  How I ended up on these forums?  I'm not sure.  lol  Anyway, recently I have been looking in to CAP Writing & Rhetoric and MP Classical Composition and IEW.  These programs look much better to me than what I had been planning on.  Here's the thing.  I just honestly don't understand the big picture of it all.  I have looked at the lower 3 and 4th grade levels and it looks great to me.  The part I am unsure is how this approach compares to how kids would do things in school.  For example, if I decided for my son's 7th grade year, if I enrolled him into the local Christian school (which has been my plan all along, just homeschool k-6, but who knows) would he be able to jump right into a traditional curriculum with no struggles or should I include typical writing assignments too like book reports and such.  Are book reports and research papers and typical school papers included in classical writing curriculum like this? I guess I just can't get through all the levels and really understand what all is covers.   Like I said, I apologize for being so dumb, but I am NOT a writer.  I hated writing in school and struggled.  I just don't really know what all he needs to know.  All I know is he needs to be a better writer than me.  lol Thanks I hope I was able to get my question out clearly.  I am sure CAP and MP produce great writers, but I just wasn't sure if it was a slower and more gradual approach than what is typical for schools.  I just want my guy to not struggle if or when he goes to private school. 

[8filltheheart]

I don't know anything about CAP or MP. I am familiar with ( not a favorite) with IEW.  I am also unsure what grade you ds is in, so these are my big picture thoughts.

All writing, regardless of the type, has the same fundamental structure: a controlling idea (a thesis or limited topic or topic paragraph or a topic sentence) with supporting ideas constructed out of complete thoughts (sentences) arranged in a logical order.  That skeletal structure controls all academic writing whether reports, essays, newspaper articles, and even fictional stories. (Poetry, some dialogue, and some situations in fiction do not require formal sentence structure.)

If a student is mastering the fundamentals of good writing, those exact same skills should be able to be utilized across different types of writing assignments bc the basic skills are the same. Stylistic techniques are what change. For students who are well grounded in basic skills, mastering new styles of writing should not be overwhelming. Students who lack essential skills are the ones who flounder  bc they don't have the foundation to build on.

[HomeAgain]

By 7th, yes, research reports and such are there.  The usual progression goes like this:
-copywork->dictation . This teaches what good writing should look like and getting comfortable with the process.
-oral->written narrations.  After copywork and orally telling, a child learns to keep a keep a thought in his head long enough to write it down.
-learning how to formally write: how to organize thoughts while still evaluating good writing.  You'll notice that vol. 4 of SOTW has beginning outline pages in the activity book, so that students who are ready to take notes and write a piece from that still have the aids that they need.  In WWS, this is taken a step further and students are taught how to write reports with formatting and multiple sources.

I'm not going to try to sell you on a curriculum.  Every kid has their own needs.  The one thing I do know, though, is that you can't leap ahead if your kid isn't ready.  The child who struggles with forming a complete sentence with punctuation and grammar is going to struggle even harder with a paragraph, and even harder with a paper, and heaven help them when they get to a report with multiple sources. I would not consider a book report appropriate for the average 2nd grader, but a 3rd grader could possibly produce a well written paragraph, kwim?  Or they may not until 4th or 5th, but they grow to understand that a paragraph is just like a small paper and they can do the same thing repeatedly talking about a topic and create that paper.  I have to remind myself not to build on sand: each building block in the writing process needs to be solid and true, no matter how much time that takes. It makes the rest of the process so much easier if you have a good base.  If things move too fast, find your place in the sand and start building blocks again.  If they move too slow, you can build a little quicker by writing in other subjects and see where that stands. 

 

[Elizabeth86]

Thanks this all makes sense!

[ByGrace3]

I am fully sold on the progression of classical writing. It makes so much sense to me, and I am seeing how it is working in my own kids. That said, I would think a child transitioning to b&m school at grade 3 or 4 would struggle more than a 7th grader. My kids have followed the classical writing model and my 6th and 8th grader could transition to any type of writing class at this point and be just fine. 

My youngest however is still in the copywork/dictation/narration stage of classical writing. The large quantities of original writing required in traditional schools would probably take some getting used to...

I find this similar to how we teach phonics. Compared to public school counter parts, phonics kids can appear behind until around 3rd grade when phonics kids soar beyond and sight word kids tend to stall out . . .

[Elizabeth86]

12 minutes ago, ByGrace3 said:

I am fully sold on the progression of classical writing. It makes so much sense to me, and I am seeing how it is working in my own kids. That said, I would think a child transitioning to b&m school at grade 3 or 4 would struggle more than a 7th grader. My kids have followed the classical writing model and my 6th and 8th grader could transition to any type of writing class at this point and be just fine. 

My youngest however is still in the copywork/dictation/narration stage of classical writing. The large quantities of original writing required in traditional schools would probably take some getting used to...

I find this similar to how we teach phonics. Compared to public school counter parts, phonics kids can appear behind until around 3rd grade when phonics kids soar beyond and sight word kids tend to stall out . . .

Great.  This is what I was hoping.  He won't be going to private school until 7th grade at the very earliest if at all.