What kind of output do you require for AoPS PreA?

[4KookieKids]

DS9 loves his PreAlgebra, but we're only just finishing up chapter 1 (it's only done occasionally). So far, I've been sitting with him while he does it so that I can scribe (he has difficulty writing), and also so that I can model appropriate conventions, like lining up the equals sign, justifying things (e.g., writing "by commutativity" or "by the definition of a reciprocal"), number the problems, etc.

I'd like to get him more independent, but I fear it will come at the cost of him writing things out well. As is, he struggles to write out any work in BA, and I have to coach him to get him to write any of his thought process out. On the other hand, I'm concerned that I'm expecting too much of him in asking him to write out what is basically a complete proof for each problem. I teach math at the Uni, so it's hard for me to figure out what's developmentally appropriate for him (he does have some significant EF deficits) in light of the advanced/complex ideas and content that he *is* ready for. 

I'd love to see what kind of output your kids had at this point!

[Jackie]

It was nice to see what was expected when my daughter started the online AOPS Algebra A class. (We skipped pre-A.) It was far less writing than I had been making her do working through it on our own. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad one, but I'm pretty sure she has dysgraphia, so I'm relieved to see that there may be a way to get through this without a pile of handwriting that was making her miserable.

For the online Algebra class, per week:

• All sections of Alcumus until the bar is green or blue
• 9-10 additional Alcumus-like problems where only the answer needs entered
• One "writing problem" - basically a full write up of how to solve a single problem (though it often is a multi-part problem, so can read more like 2-3 problems)

The writing problem usually takes my kid as much time as the other 9-10 problems combined, and she still has me then proofread them for grammar and general readability before the due date.

ETA: The writing problem is fully typed. I don't know if that's easier or harder for her, actually, since typing and formatting math is not something she normally does.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Jackie

[wendyroo]

DS started AOPS prealgebra about 18 months ago, when he was 8.5 years old.  He has autism, ADD and anxiety, and is organizationally challenged to say the least.  He had no problem with the math, but he wrote almost nothing down and what he did write was often huge, illegible and scattered all over the page despite working in a graph paper notebook.

At first all I required was that he number his problems and box his answers.  Period.  Slowly, slowly, slowly I nonchalantly offered math organizational tips, and even more slowly his notebook became more comprehensible.  He still writes VERY little down, but what he does write is mostly organized, sequential, labeled, etc.

Sometimes it niggles at me that he should be writing down more complete solutions, but, really, he is acing the math without writing much down, so it seems hard to defend forcing more writing.  

Instead, I took a different approach.  When he was about half way through the book, I gave up trying to convince him he should write things down in order to do the math.  Now, I take the opposite tact and tell him that after he does the math, I need him to show me that he is capable of writing one complete, correct, easily followed solution.  I mark one problem in each day's work as requiring a written solution.  He writes up the solution after he has finished and corrected his math - it is almost a completely separate subject, Mathematical Writing, distinct from the rest of his Mathematical Computation and Problem Solving. 

For guidance on how the solutions should be written up, we found the AOPS article: How to Write a Solution to be very helpful.  DS is now in his last chapter of the book and his solutions have come a long way.  They are not perfect by any stretch, but I think they are well done, and certainly adequate for this stage in the game.  I've asked DH to teach DS the basics of LaTeX soon, so that when he starts AOPS Algebra he can also type up one of his written solutions every week or so for practice.

Wendy

[4KookieKids]

Wow! That's such a relief to hear!! I've been totally bogging him down in writing and feel so much better about considering easing up on that. Somehow I felt like I'd be "cheating" him of the AoPS experience if I let him slide without writing out full solutions to all the problems.

Thank you both so much!!

[SeaConquest]

Sacha is in the PA Academy class and he has around 10-12 problems per week. He doesn't have to show any work -- just needs to enter in the correct answer. I tried having him show me his work at the beginning of the year, but it seldom happened. He mostly does it in his head (no idea how), or scribbles something that is incomprehensible to me. If he gets it wrong, I make him work through the problem with me. So, yeah... it is definitely still a work in progress!!

[seaben]

As I remember, at the time we did a mixture of oral answers and written work. Writing was mostly used when needed as opposed to a formal answer format. Over time, we started working on some organisational basics like always work moving down the page, never erase or cross out etc. Neatness has definitely improved 3.5+ years later. 

This was one of the few things I saved from around 10:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/E9THxUpVcato8yRu7

[I can't figure out image uploads at the moment] 

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by seaben
image isn't visible

[4KookieKids]

3 hours ago, seaben said:

As I remember, at the time we did a mixture of oral answers and written work. Writing was mostly used when needed as opposed to a formal answer format. Over time, we started working on some organisational basics like always work moving down the page, never erase or cross out etc. Neatness has definitely improved 3.5+ years later. 

This was one of the few things I saved from around 10:

 

I can't see this image?
Thanks for your feedback!

Edited February 6, 2019 by 4KookieKids

[SanDiegoMom]

DS started at age 8/9.  He rarely showed his work, and I often scribed for him -- usually about 3/4 of the day's assignment.  As he progressed and got older the amount of scribing dropped off. He also gradually increased the amount of work he was showing, working up to the full writing solutions starting in the second half of Intro to Alg (online).  

His twin sister is doing PreA now in 7th and doesn't show her work.  I am working on that with her now:) . 

[seaben]

1 hour ago, 4KookieKids said:

I can't see this image?
Thanks for your feedback!

 

I put a link in instead. 

[4KookieKids]

Thanks! 

After reading this thread through again, I set up an Alcumus account for him to start, and he really enjoyed it. It was obvious that thinking the math and reading the solutions was just so much easier for him than what we've been doing. He got green on all of chapter 1 already (granted, it's an easy chapter!!! lol) and I'm curious how he gets to blue, if it automatically puts him on the next topic once he hits green?

[Jackie]

8 minutes ago, 4KookieKids said:

Thanks! 

After reading this thread through again, I set up an Alcumus account for him to start, and he really enjoyed it. It was obvious that thinking the math and reading the solutions was just so much easier for him than what we've been doing. He got green on all of chapter 1 already (granted, it's an easy chapter!!! lol) and I'm curious how he gets to blue, if it automatically puts him on the next topic once he hits green?

 

In the settings, there is a button for “advance only on mastery”. That will require the bar to turn blue before moving on. Also in settings is a “problem difficulty” setting, in case you or he would like to change that at any point.

[4KookieKids]

6 hours ago, Jackie said:

 

In the settings, there is a button for “advance only on mastery”. That will require the bar to turn blue before moving on. Also in settings is a “problem difficulty” setting, in case you or he would like to change that at any point.

Thanks! This is all new to me!

[SeaConquest]

20 hours ago, seaben said:

As I remember, at the time we did a mixture of oral answers and written work. Writing was mostly used when needed as opposed to a formal answer format. Over time, we started working on some organisational basics like always work moving down the page, never erase or cross out etc. Neatness has definitely improved 3.5+ years later. 

This was one of the few things I saved from around 10:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/E9THxUpVcato8yRu7

[I can't figure out image uploads at the moment] 

 

 

 

 

I'd be thrilled if Sacha (also 10) wrote out problems like this. He can do it, if I ask him to, for a problem or two, but then falls back into his usual ways of mostly doing mental math with the odd scribble here and there. The problem for him is really hand strength/fine motor skills. He just doesn't have the ability to do all of his work like this by hand -- it would take him forever -- and he thinks it is ridiculous to have to show every.single.step of his thought process. He's like duh, mom, don't you just see what I did there? Uh, no, kid. I'm old, I never had math like AoPS in school, and I likely haven't had enough coffee yet. So, show me your steps! I think he really thinks I am a moron. I think, ultimately, he is just going to have to suffer through a few of the AoPS online classes, which do require written output, or figure out a way to use Latex for college.

[SoCal_Bear]

For us, we had some bumps in the beginning where he was not showing his work and his thought process. My DH and I decided that this was a hill that we wanted to him to conquer and had him work slower if he needed to complete it. As we progresses, he was producing work like the photo @seaben shared. Not quite as neat when he was rushing, but he was able to put together something written out when asked to work thoughtfully. I saw corresponding improvement on how he started to approach the contest in Math Olympiad this year. He laid out his work very neatly in a way that made it easy for him to recheck his work. I think it also paid off when he sat for AMC8 without test prep and got a decent score of 11. He has since told me that he is convinced he would have done better now that he finished PA because they covered geometry that appeared on the AMC8.

ETA: I will say that on the proof problems. I let him attempt it, but generally that was too difficult for him to write out. When I went back over it with him, he was able to verbally explain his thinking on the proof. So, those I did not make him write out.

Edited February 20, 2019 by calbear