More re: 8th grade boys

[Mama Bear]

Mine is a young 8th grader -- July birthday. He's not working hard academically. There are consequences. We do LOTS of swimming to "get tired." Music (piano and violin) seems to be his biggest thing and greatest connection at this point. I'm beginning the process of ADHD eval--symptoms have been there since he was five or 6. I see occasional spurts of spontaneous responsibility and growing maturity, but it doesn't seem to be keeping pace with the academic need for it. Since he's my eldest, do I really just need to adjust expectations for this particular child?

 

The biggest reason (IMO) that homeschooling has worked well for this kid is that he has had lots of one-to-one with mom (tutor style). Second biggest reason is that he's been free to read science and, secondarily, history and fiction, ad nauseum. His brain soaks this stuff up and then does amazing things with it. However. Now that he's being asked to do more on his own and self-regulate the process (has a planner with assignments that we work out, some assigned, some chosen), it's agony. More for me than for him. :tongue_smilie:

 

I've discussed matter of factly with him stretching 8th and 9th grades into three years. Not as punishment, never as punishment, but in order to allow the processes to line up. He needs to be in a certain place in math (he does problems in his head, arriving at the correct answer before he can consciously work through it and can't explain how he got there, hates and fights having to go back and write out the processes). He should be both able and at least minimally willing to comply with writing assignments. He seems to become lost in the writing process and gets overwhelmed, discouraged, then gives up entirely.

 

None of these things were a big deal in a younger kid. Indeed, I expect to have to work through some of this per each kid's needs/issues. But still? And now what?

 

Thank you for reading and thinking and any wisdom you've got. I'll be back for more later.

Edited November 17, 2008 by Mama Bear
clarity

[Rhondabee]

I think writing is one area that you just about can't teach yourself. I mean, if that's your talent, then you probably could; but if you can't, then....

 

When I hear of all the methods and systems in place at even the high school level to ensure that parents and students know exactly what is expected when (emails and websites and phone conferences), I wonder if we homeschoolers expect too much independence too soon.

 

It sounds from your post that the real problem you are having is getting him to write about what he's read. I think I would try doing the assignments with him until he knows the pattern, and knows what you expect. If he's like my 8th grader pretty soon you'll hear, "OK, Mom, I know how to do this now. Just let me go do it, please."

 

Best wishes!

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Mama bear!

You are I should get together around a coffee... My son does the same things! Including swimming, piano and violin! And the reading part too. And I'm facing the same problems too, although my son is a bit younger, and I give him a bit less freedom because of that. He just turned 11, but does grade 7 work. He'd be in grade 5 in school, so I have to take that into consideration.

His pediatrician wants him on Ritalin, I even have the prescription with me.

 

In my case, what's worked so far is the "threat" of standard school. My son is now long distance schooled for French (first language here), Math and Spanish (his third language, well, fourth if you want to count Latin. Even fifth, since he did two years of Greek! LOL! ). The rest we still homeschool with Sonlight.

The long distance schooling is working for us because he has to send in assignments every two weeks for grading by a teacher in France. He's got to keep the schedule, or off to public school he goes. That keeps him on track.

But I'm not dealing with a 13 yo yet.. I don't know how it will be in 2 years from now.

[Murphy101]

Well obviously I can offer sympathy!:grouphug:

Starting to sound like we need a support group for first time moms of 13/14 yr old boys!:)

 

I'm beginning the process of ADHD eval--symptoms have been there since he was five or 6. I see occasional spurts of spontaneous responsibility and growing maturity, but it doesn't seem to be keeping pace with the academic need for it. Since he's my eldest, do I really just need to adjust expectations for this particular child?

 

I don't know. On the one hand it seems like many kids grow in "spurts" like that. Or at least I've seen mine do it. One week they just aren't ready, then suddenly they are.

 

Can you adjust expectation in some subjects? Sometimes they don't need everything lightened, just 1 or 2 things can make a big difference.

 

However. Now that he's being asked to do more on his own and self-regulate the process (has a planner with assignments that we work out, some assigned, some chosen), it's agony. More for me than for him.

 

Is he freaking out over the time constraint? Or does having everything written out in the planner over-whelm him? I have an assignment checklist for my son, but the directions and assignment details are seperate for each subject. Seeing it all in a planner totally freaked him out and made him feel like he was drwoning in homework. It's the same amount, but spreading the info out made it easier to digest.

 

He needs to be in a certain place in math (he does problems in his head, arriving at the correct answer before he can consciously work through it and can't explain how he got there, hates and fights having to go back and write out the processes).

 

This I don't think is a problem. :confused: It's obvious he understands the math and is arriving at the correct answer? I'd leave it at that as long as the math is correct. In fact, that's what I do with my kids. I strongly encourage them to do it in their head, but if their head doesn't give the correct answer, then when they correct the problem, they have to write it out. Knowing that getting it wrong means redoing it usually makes them think thorugh it better.

 

He should be both able and at least minimally willing to comply with writing assignments. He seems to become lost in the writing process and gets overwhelmed, discouraged, then gives up entirely.

 

Have you tried formula writing charts? The writing process is just plain hard for some kids. If your ds is good at math, he might like formula writing because it gives a framework to work within. And I don't think it stunts creativity at all. In fact, for some kids it makes the process easier so they can be more creative.

 

Again, can't claim any wisdom here. Just tossing some possiblities out there. Good luck from another mom in the same trench as you.:)

[JennW in SoCal]

Being able to handle more work independently, becoming responsible and organized is very hard for most young teens, with or without ADHD. I know this from first hand experience as my oldest has ADHD while my current 13yo does not. They both have needed help in these areas to one degree or another, though the one with ADHD has of course struggled the most.

 

I think we homeschool moms do tend to expect more independent work than kids at this age are ready for. It is instead a process throughout high school of learning and practicing these and other study skills. In other words it doesn't all have to be magically in place at the start of high school as with maturity and practice it will be there by 12th grade.

 

Many kids simply need to learn organizational skills, whether it is drawing diagrams for organizing essay points, or having writing all the steps to a few algebra problems until they can take shortcuts once they demonstrate they understand it. (We use a white wipe-off board still for algebra and geometry -- it makes it far more palatable for some reason!) Because organizational and study skills need to be taught and practiced, I prefer to cut out busy work at this age, such as comprehension questions which we either skip or use as discussion questions. Instead I assign an essay or research project in 2 - 3 subjects each month and work with my kids on whatever skills the assignment will require. The same amount of information is going in, but the quality of their output is increasing.

 

By the way, with my ADHD ds I learned never to assume that any assignment was obvious, that even the most simple of steps would need to be broken down.

 

Hope this helps...

[Mama Bear]

Cleo, coffee sounds great. :o)

 

Re: math

We often use a white board and I too find it to help knock down the enormity of the subject.

 

Re: writing

I don't have him write much on his own. If he does, it's usually narration in a subject that he syncs with enough to keep focus while he's finishing one to three paragraphs. Honestly, I'm relying pretty heavily on the fact that he likes to read and reads good stuff (mostly) to model good writing for him.

 

I've wondered about the planner overwhelming the living daylights out of the kid, but as we set the stuff out he seems pretty in-line with it, initiating parts of the plan and all, but then follow-through is a struggle. A Struggle, I tell you. Clearly this deserves some more thinking.

 

I hope that the eval shows something useful, even if it's just ideas and not a diagnosis. I think that the most useful thing I can do is focus on the really good stuff about this child and grow new neurons for myself as we enter every day into new territory for both of us. :D

 

Thanks for the advice and the commiseration -- keep it coming: I'm often looking for ideas and new ways of thinking about ed and children, esp. in uncharted waters.

 

(Hugs back, Martha.)

Edited November 18, 2008 by Mama Bear
addition

[FloridaLisa]

I think we homeschool moms do tend to expect more independent work than kids at this age are ready for. It is instead a process throughout high school of learning and practicing these and other study skills. In other words it doesn't all have to be magically in place at the start of high school as with maturity and practice it will be there by 12th grade.

 

:iagree:This has so far, been one of the biggest myths of homeschooling that I've come across. Somewhere, through books or seminars, I acquired the idea that my high schoolers would be independent, self-initiatiating, meticulous workers, striving for excellence at every point. But . . . I discovered I just have normal human kids. :001_smile: High school is still an enormous amount of work for the homeschool parent and much of that involves supervising, moderating, checking, assisting, correcting.

 

I would echo Jenn's advice to set your standards and teach the skills and look for year to year improvement. Boys, especially, in my experience, just don't seem to have the intuitive organization and study skills that girls do. They seem to assume directions rather than read them; assume they know the material rather than studying their heart out. That's an overgeneralization obviously, but it's been my experience so far.

 

So, given that, our job as homeschool moms is to teach, step by step, precept on precept, those skills we want them to have for college.

 

Regarding redshirting -- I wholly endorse this. It works so well in so many situations. You could always add a gap year at the end; but if you feel he needs a bit more academic readiness to meet the hard stuff of high school, why not give him the gap year in 8th grade so that he starts 9th grade as an older and more mature high schooler.

 

My ds has a late July birthday. He started in K as a just-turned-6-year-old at a private school. It was the best decision we made. While I felt that it wasn't as necessay in the middle years or as a homeschooler, I'm glad he will spend that 18th year at home (doing rigorous AP classes and college-level courses in many cases) rather than away. For us, it's been a good experience.

 

HTH. I'm hurrying to head back to teach so this has become a bit rambly. It's meant mostly to encourage your gut instincts as a mom and to encourage you to plug along step by step. Every year in high school, I've seen huge, huge strides in my oldest.

 

HTH,

Lisa