Disregard This

[alexandramarie]

I am a Charlotte Mason homeschooler at heart and am doing Mason's Alveary, which I love; but it requires a lot of the teacher.  I have an 8 year old, 6 year old (very advanced reader), 5 year old who I know is dyslexic, and VERY Challenging almost 3 year old, and 11 month old.  My almost three year old is causing havoc in our household.  Unless he gets constant attentions something is destroyed or the baby is being hurt.  He takes an 1.5 hr nap and I try to fit as much school in as possible, but it is not enough.  My five year old is receiving no instruction from me, except maybe ten minutes here or there and I know he needs help because he still can't recognize his letters.  My 8 year old and 6 year old are good readers.  My husband is against image based learning and we both have a strong conviction against too much screen time.  What would you suggest in order to make my 6 year old and 8 year old as independent as possible?  I am not against all online learning, but wouldn't want it to be the bulk.  

Edited August 18, 2018 by alexandramarie

[alexandramarie]

Thank you for your reply!  Here are my thoughts... I know I paid $200 to be part of the Alveary, but I own the first edition of the Latin Centered Curriculum and I can't stop looking at it.  I also own Minimus Latin, because my son loves Latin (he did Prima Last year).  Actually last year we did Memoria Press and then moved back to Charlotte Mason because I didn't like all the guides.  I actually am not concerned at all about my daughters reading. We use dictation for spelling.  So here are my thoughts; would this work.  We do Bible as a family over breakfast.  Take our recitations (poetry, hymn, and bible), and use it as copywork, grammar lessons, and dictation.  I do one on one math with my kids (we use Right Start).  We go for a walk first thing in the morning.  My baby naps from 9:30-11 (during that time I do Math and English with my kids (including 15 minutes of phonics with my 5 year old)).  11-12:30 We eat lunch and go outside.12:30-1 Piano(Hoffman Academy)  1-2:30 my 2 year old naps.  We do Latin 20 min (which will include more grammar and copywork).  Then we spend 40 minutes doing a loop schedule such as in L.C.C. I was to use Alveary resources since I own them (they read out loud).  American History 1 day and have them paint a picture for a timeline/ A Wonderbook & Pilgrims Progress Another day for Lit/ Geography another day along with a a patriotic song/ Natural History and Nature Journaling another day/ Fine Arts the last day (picture study, composer study, paint a picture from something they read).  Then have them do 20 minutes of independent reading.  Doing this we are ditching handicrafts(which my daughter loves) and spanish.

[MamaHill]

1 hour ago, alexandramarie said:

I am a Charlotte Mason homeschooler at heart and am doing Mason's Alveary, which I love; but it requires a lot of the teacher.  I have an 8 year old, 6 year old (very advanced reader), 5 year old who I know is dyslexic, and VERY Challenging almost 3 year old, and 11 month old.  My almost three year old is causing havoc in our household.  Unless he gets constant attentions something is destroyed or the baby is being hurt.  He takes an 1.5 hr nap and I try to fit as much school in as possible, but it is not enough.  My five year old is receiving no instruction from me, except maybe ten minutes here or there and I know he needs help because he still can't recognize his letters.  My 8 year old and 6 year old are good readers.  My husband is against image based learning and we both have a strong conviction against too much screen time.  What would you suggest in order to make my 6 year old and 8 year old as independent as possible?  I am not against all online learning, but wouldn't want it to be the bulk.  

I am sorry you are having such a difficult time.  I truly understand how difficult it is to school the others while being overwhelmed with a child that demands attention.  It's enough to wear a mama down. ? 

Honestly, I'm not sure there's a whole lot  that can be done independently with a 6 and 8 year old.  My oldest child is very bright and a voracious reader (even at 6), but there still wasn't much I could give him independently at 8 that didn't involve a screen of some sort.  (We are a pretty screen-free family, too, until 5th-ish grade when they take Latin online).

What subjects would be ideal for you to foster more independence?  Math? Grammar and writing?

Let us know what those are and then we can help you brainstorm.

I will also just say this gently: It's hard to give up what we consider to be the 'best' homeschool philosophy because we just can't make it work.  Believe me in that I completely understand. 5 sweet kiddos just demands a different kind of time and attention, and that doesn't lend itself well to super teacher-intensive curricula.  It's hard.

 

[Sarah0000]

Is your six year old advanced in just reading or perhaps math as well? My six year old does Beast Academy independently. I've heard RS is teacher intensive so perhaps you could switch to BA and just be available for questions and help doing all three of your older kids math at the same time. I do that with my older two (one in BA the other Mep/Miquon) with baby on lap.

Do you need to be constantly available for handicrafts and the arts projects? Sometimes I set things like that up in the kitchen and put a baby gate up and let my older have at it. If there's something new I want to teach him or a project I want done in a specific way then sometimes I do it on the weekend when DH is home to handle the youngers.

[Lori D.]

Actually, it sounds like you have a very workable schedule going for you. And, things will just be rough for another 2-3 years until the almost-3yo toddler and almost 1-year baby grow up a little bit, but every year will get a little easier and the little ones will get older and have just a bit more patience, so hang in there!

Agreeing with previous poster that 6yo and 8yo are really not very independent-working ages. Instead, I'd suggest looking for solutions to help with the toddler and the baby:

1. Put the 5yo in a friendly, hands-on kindergarten -- possibly Montessori-based -- so that child is getting some social time and some gentle academic exposure. And then either hire a "mother's helper", or ask grandma or other close relative who would like to participate to either come over 2 mornings or afternoons a week, or you drop off the 2 youngest for 2 mornings or afternoons, giving you concentrated time to work with your oldest 2.

2. Enroll the 8yo and 6yo in a "university model" classical school -- so they attend classroom 2 days a week, and the other 3 days a week you just oversee the work that is sent home, and the planning/grading/etc. is done by the teacher.

3. Or, creative scheduling ideas:

- 30 minutes = strap the baby to your body, come up with a safe place for the 5yo and 3yo to play/run-around (like, in the backyard, or a room with a toddler gate) (or put the 3yo in a playpen or doggie "x-pen") and they get to use special school-time-only toys or activities, while you work with 8yo and 6yo

- 20-30 minutes (work up to it) = high chair time -- put both the 3yo and the baby in their own high chairs with their own activities and work with the 5yo, or with an older child (or high chairs are not possible, then do "blanket time", although that is harder and longer to train an active toddler to stay on the blanket with their school-only activities) 

- 30 minutes each = 8yo and 6yo each take a turn playing with/reading to/watching 3yo while you work with the other one or with the 5yo

BEST of luck as you school during this very busy stage of life! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Lori D.

[alexandramarie]

5 hours ago, Lori D. said:

Actually, it sounds like you have a very workable schedule going for you. And, things will just be rough for another 2-3 years until the almost-3yo toddler and almost 1-year baby grow up a little bit, but every year will get a little easier and the little ones will get older and have just a bit more patience, so hang in there!

Agreeing with previous poster that 6yo and 8yo are really not very independent-working ages. Instead, I'd suggest looking for solutions to help with the toddler and the baby:

1. Put the 5yo in a friendly, hands-on kindergarten -- possibly Montessori-based -- so that child is getting some social time and some gentle academic exposure. And then either hire a "mother's helper", or ask grandma or other close relative who would like to participate to either come over 2 mornings or afternoons a week, or you drop off the 2 youngest for 2 mornings or afternoons, giving you concentrated time to work with your oldest 2.

2. Enroll the 8yo and 6yo in a "university model" classical school -- so they attend classroom 2 days a week, and the other 3 days a week you just oversee the work that is sent home, and the planning/grading/etc. is done by the teacher.

3. Or, creative scheduling ideas:

- 30 minutes = strap the baby to your body, come up with a safe place for the 5yo and 3yo to play/run-around (like, in the backyard, or a room with a toddler gate) (or put the 3yo in a playpen or doggie "x-pen") and they get to use special school-time-only toys or activities, while you work with 8yo and 6yo

- 20-30 minutes (work up to it) = high chair time -- put both the 3yo and the baby in their own high chairs with their own activities and work with the 5yo, or with an older child (or high chairs are not possible, then do "blanket time", although that is harder and longer to train an active toddler to stay on the blanket with their school-only activities) 

- 30 minutes each = 8yo and 6yo each take a turn playing with/reading to/watching 3yo while you work with the other one or with the 5yo

BEST of luck as you school during this very busy stage of life! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Hi Lori, Thankfully my mom takes the five year old and two year old Tuesday mornings.  The funny thing is the baby is not a problem at all.  He's happy just playing.  It's more having the toddler with the baby.  I have four boys, my toddler is my third; I have never had a boy like this.  He doesn't like toys and is pretty much only happy if he is outside climbing, running, riding a bike, or catching bugs (which he does all day). Private schools are not financially a choice.  We have perhaps talked about enrolling our oldest in online school next year, all I can find is Freedom Project Academy; but that would be the most our finances can afford.  Maybe I do just need to look for more independent curricula.

[alexandramarie]

6 hours ago, Sarah0000 said:

Is your six year old advanced in just reading or perhaps math as well? My six year old does Beast Academy independently. I've heard RS is teacher intensive so perhaps you could switch to BA and just be available for questions and help doing all three of your older kids math at the same time. I do that with my older two (one in BA the other Mep/Miquon) with baby on lap.

Do you need to be constantly available for handicrafts and the arts projects? Sometimes I set things like that up in the kitchen and put a baby gate up and let my older have at it. If there's something new I want to teach him or a project I want done in a specific way then sometimes I do it on the weekend when DH is home to handle the youngers.

My 6 year old needs help in math( it's funny this girl is reading little women,but gets in tears over double digit addition).  My 8 year old catches on quickly in math, so maybe for him I should look for something more independent.  My toddler can climb out of all gates and he gets into all handicrafts.  My daughter loves sewing, maybe I can save it for the weekends during his nap when we are not doing schol.  Paints we are ok with; we use watercolors.  I have my kids paint something they read about or saw in nature almost everyday.

[alexandramarie]

4 hours ago, nwahomeschoolmom said:

Your new schedule sounds good I think..busy but workable.  I feel like I need to drop something as well or just accept that certain subjects will not get done totally this year. (Mostly the subjects I wanted to do for fun/enrichment, but are not essential for first grade: geography, science, history.  Hey, if these curriculums lasts us two years, I guess I have saved money : )

I guess I am lucky, it might change, but my 11 month old will play independently for a long time (so long it worries me sometimes).  He will come to the table and try to take stuff if its not pushed back far enough or grab DS6' chair, but usually he is content.  

Thank you for the encouragement.  My 11 month old does a really good job as well; he is not the problem.  It is just having the toddler and the 11 month old together, because the toddler gets too rough with him.

[alexandramarie]

I am at the point I have continued changed what I am doing multiple times that I feel it is no longer fair to my kids.  We started with Memoria Press, moved to the Alveary, then went back to Memoria Press, and then back to the Alveary.  What lead me to Memoria Press was reading the Latin Centered Curriculum (I like two strands of History and it also included more narration).  I have read Charlotte Mason since my son was four and own her volumes and love her ideals, but I love the security of something like Memoria Press and do feel that it  is more independent.  But I also felt that my children were doing too much writing and moved to narration and no lit guides. On one hand I like the security, but on the other hand I like my kids making their own copybooks.  I do feel narration is enough and lit guides aren't necessary.  I know this seems like a different problem than my original.  My point is I want to stick with a path.  We do like Right Start, but I do know it is teacher intensive.  Rod and Staff especially did not work for my daughter, she needs to understand numbers.  I feel for my oldest two that dictation is enough for spelling.  We write a sentence from dictation a day and I correct spelling errors by reviewing spelling rules.  My five year old is a whole different story; knowing he is dyslexic ( I am currently reading overcoming dyslexia).  So even though Charlotte Mason delays academics until six, I am wondering if I need to do more; I own all About Pre- Reading and perhaps need to be faithful in that, but time has been an issue.  So yes, maybe I am feeling guilt for neglecting my five year old(he just turned five in July).   I was up at 3 am thinking about all of this and now it is 4. I guess what I really want is sound advice and a workable long term plan.  I am coming to grips with the idea that I may have to let my ideals of a Charlotte Mason education go... 

Edited August 18, 2018 by alexandramarie

[kristin0713]

Remember that Charlotte Mason taught a hundred years ago.  And I think most people had a nanny at that point (at least the ones with money did) so it just wasn't as much of an issue with the littlest ones. I have taken a lot of her methods and applied them to our homeschool but certainly not all.  I think at your kids ages, you need to give yourself more grace and freedom to do things a little differently.  Your kids are so young!  If you can get math and reading done, and read lots of books to them, you are doing great.  They don't need to learn all that Latin now, although if it doesn't stress you out, go for it.  Something like Song School Latin or Dinolingo would give them exposure for now.  (Song School can be done with just the music or with the DVD as well, Dinolingo is an animated DVD.)  We have never used a lot of screens in our homeschool but Latin is one thing that I did let them watch. I have always loathed crafts.  They totally stress me out.  But I found that if I gave my kids a few supplies and just let them play, they were happy and I could manage it.  As they get older, they will be able to do more with just your supervision. 

Interestingly, I came across this blog the other day.  It resonated with me and maybe it would be helpful to you: https://upabovetherowantree.com/charlotte-mason-purist/ 

[kristin0713]

Oh, another thing I wanted to mention is that for both of my kids, we started out with RightStart but I switched them to Singapore around second grade.  The methodology is very similar, but in Singapore they practice concepts in a workbook, whereas in RS they practice with games.  It was so much easier for us to manage.  I definitely think that RS gave them a good foundation but there was no loss in switching to Singapore. 

[alexandramarie]

My husband gave me the Ok to switch things up and not feel like I wasted money.  SO how about the Cottage Press Language Arts Primers.  Continuing Right Start with my daughter, having my son do Strayer Upton Math independently. And then doing 1 hr of "Morning Time". And Hoffman Academy?  

[Lori D.]

My husband gave me the Ok to switch things up and not feel like I wasted money.  SO how about the Cottage Press Language Arts Primers.  Continuing Right Start with my daughter, having my son do Strayer Upton Math independently. And then doing 1 hr of "Morning Time". And Hoffman Academy?  

Good for your DH! That is very supportive to have his encouragement to switch to less time-intensive materials, so that you can make the most of your little windows of opportunity. (:D I'm not familiar with any of those materials to know if they will be more independent for your children or a good fit for their learning styles, so I can't help there. But let's see if we can help you squeeze out a little bit more time in your schedule -- It looks like this is what you currently have going:

(morning routine)
9:30-11:00 = Math & English (includes Phonics for 5yo)
(lunch)
12:30-1:00 = Piano
1:00-2:30 = 1/2 = Latin, Grammar, Copywork, and 1/2 = loop schedule for History/Geography/Fine Arts
(independent reading)

Although it may not feel like it, that's really quite a lot of time -- 3.5 hours! 

Can DH provide 30 minutes in the evening after dinner? Even if it's just 3x/week. Perhaps he can read aloud the History/Lit/Geography to the older 3 while you wrangle the little ones, and that frees up a bit more time during your afternoon block to work with the 5yo for a longer, more regular block of time. 

Can you provide a basket of handicrafts for the older 2 to choose from and do as independent work after the afternoon block of time? Or perhaps have as the go-to during the morning block if a child gets stuck and needs to wait on you while you are working with another child?

For your morning block, can you set up the almost 3yo with high chair time activities, or a tub of bubbles and plastic dishes to "wash" on the kitchen floor, or standing on a chair at the kitchen sink, and have the 8yo, 6yo and 5yo all at the kitchen table doing Math and English. And you just keep circling the table providing the needed explanation to get one started, they start working, move to the next, etc. And once they are working, you are there to answer questions and grade work in the moment.

I'm sure weekends are full, but could DH commit to watch 4 children for 30-40 minutes on Saturdays, so that you could have a time slot for school catch up or focused time on one subject with one child each week. You could rotate through the 3 children, and then take the 4th Saturday off. OR, save the Art and some of the Charlotte Mason things and do them in the summer when you are NOT doing regular core academics. That keeps those subjects enjoyable, and doesn't stress the schedule of trying to get in everything every day.

Finally, just an encouragement that this is a very hectic/hard stage right now, and if ALL you covered daily was the core subjects of Math and Language Arts, and then getting in the occasional content subject (everything else), you would be giving your children a solid educational foundation.  Hopefully "moms of many little ones" will jump in here and lend a hand with ideas of what works for them! BEST of luck, warmly, Lori D.

 

ETA -- Oops! JUST now saw you posted a new thread, so I guess this response should go with that thread...

Edited August 18, 2018 by Lori D.

[KrissiK]

21 hours ago, MamaHill said:

 

I will also just say this gently: It's hard to give up what we consider to be the 'best' homeschool philosophy because we just can't make it work.  Believe me in that I completely understand. 5 sweet kiddos just demands a different kind of time and attention, and that doesn't lend itself well to super teacher-intensive curricula.  It's hard.

 

This. I am a mom who started out completely Classically Minded. I loved the model, I believed in it, and I still believe in it. I devour Memoria Press’s magazine each time it comes out. But our homeschool is far from classical. You have to teach the kids you have, however that may look. And you have to stay sane yourself or things will get ugly very fast. I know. It is nice to have educational ideals and philosophies, and if you can make that work in your home, that is wonderful. But the wise homeschool mom is the one who is able to balance her philosophy and ideals with the needs of her children. And actually, sometimes it’s not balance. Sometimes it’s shelving your ideals and philosophies and figuring out how your kids learn best and doing that.

[acresoft]

5 hours ago, alexandramarie said:

SO how about the Cottage Press Language Arts Primers.  Continuing Right Start with my daughter, having my son do Strayer Upton Math independently. And then doing 1 hr of "Morning Time". And Hoffman Academy?  

Nice Curriculum

Edited August 18, 2018 by acresoft