Dog Help Please (weight issues)

[Joker]

We have an almost 4 year old small dog (chihuahua/corgi mix probably - was a stray) who is a good 12 pounds overweight right now which is a big deal since she's so small. It just started this past year. The results from thyroid testing came in today and everything looks within normal. TSH was a high normal so they want to redo in a few months but the vet is adamant that pre thyroid issues would not already be causing the weight gain. Is this true? We've only lived here a few years and I honestly haven't found a vet I truly like and trust yet. 

The vet wants us now to try a weight loss food but I'm not sure we should. Our dog already is fed less calories a day than she should be and she sometimes even turns down a treat because she's not hungry. She does get the occasional table food from us/kids and dropped fruit and veggies when I'm chopping. It's not all the time or enough to account for the weight gain.

I looked up the food she wants us to try (it's a Royal Canin) and compared it to our food and the only real difference is the fiber content. The diet food has a lot more fiber. If I feed her the suggested serving, it would be more calories than what we're currently feeding her though so it doesn't make sense to me. She doesn't act hungry all the time so her feeling full isn't the issue. 

So, are the weight loss dog foods some kind of magic and even feeding her more calories she will lose weight because of the fiber? I'm trying to make sense of it but it's just not adding up for me. 

Also, is there anything else that could be causing the weight gain. She doesn't have any weird symptoms. She does eat a lot outside if we don't stay on top of her- grass and stuff. She always has but the vet acted like that wasn't a big deal and wouldn't be causing the weight gain. 

[Pawz4me]

What should her normal weight be? For a very small dog it doesn't take much at all to cause weight gain because their calorie needs are so very little.

When you say you already feed fewer calories a day than she should get -- what source are you using for the info on her daily calorie need? Do NOT go by what the food bag or can says. Almost all of them hugely over-estimate what a typical house dog needs to maintain a good weight. And just like with humans, it's all an estimate and can vary greatly between individual dogs. I mean like by a HUGE amount. Over the years I've had dogs of all sizes. Some of very similar size needed unbelievable amounts of food and others were very easy keepers who seemed to live on air. So IME any source that says a dog of X pounds should consume X number of calories per day is only giving you a very general starting point to work from.

I'd make extra sure the kids aren't giving her food that you're not aware of.

An old weight loss trick for dogs is to cut the food intake by 1/3 and add in some green beans (frozen or unsalted canned) for extra bulk.

Yes, weight loss foods depend on fiber to help fill the dog up. It works for some dogs. Others seem to do better on a very high protein/low or no carb diet (usually raw). IME it depends on the dog what works best, although many raw ideologues will swear that only raw will work.

What about exercise? Does she get regular walks? Play fetch?

The other health issue besides hypothyroidism that I can think of that can cause weight gain is Cushing's disease.

[itsheresomewhere]

Our dog has cushings disease.  He has been overweight most of his life.  I can’t tell you how many times we were told we were over feeding him.  Changed vets and one believed me and tested him. Does your dog have a pot belly? How are his liver enzymes? Does the pup have panting episodes like they have been exercising and have not?

Not a fan of Royal Canin.  IMO, it is cheap food with gas/coat/stool issues in the dogs I know who eat it.

Edited August 12, 2018 by itsheresomewhere

[Joker]

2 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

What should her normal weight be? For a very small dog it doesn't take much at all to cause weight gain because their calorie needs are so very little.

When you say you already feed fewer calories a day than she should get -- what source are you using for the info on her daily calorie need? Do NOT go by what the food bag or can says. Almost all of them hugely over-estimate what a typical house dog needs to maintain a good weight. And just like with humans, it's all an estimate and can vary greatly between individual dogs. I mean like by a HUGE amount. Over the years I've had dogs of all sizes. Some of very similar size needed unbelievable amounts of food and others were very easy keepers who seemed to live on air. So IME any source that says a dog of X pounds should consume X number of calories per day is only giving you a very general starting point to work from.

I'd make extra sure the kids aren't giving her food that you're not aware of.

An old weight loss trick for dogs is to cut the food intake by 1/3 and add in some green beans (frozen or unsalted canned) for extra bulk.

Yes, weight loss foods depend on fiber to help fill the dog up. It works for some dogs. Others seem to do better on a very high protein/low or no carb diet (usually raw). IME it depends on the dog what works best, although many raw ideologues will swear that only raw will work.

What about exercise? Does she get regular walks? Play fetch?

The other health issue besides hypothyroidism that I can think of that can cause weight gain is Cushing's disease.

Yeah, we never go by the bag. What we feed now says she should have 1.5 cups a day for her weight but we only give her .5 cup a day. The vet worked out what her intake should be so she's at about 150 calories less than that with her food. The vet said around 320 calories per day and the half cup is 170. The kids are 18 and 16 and rarely give the dogs anything because the senior dog we have has had allergies since they were little. I give her less than she should because I know I will give her a few marshmallows a day (the only treat older dog can have) and I know over the course of a week that she will get some dropped food and/or a piece of popcorn or something from kids/us. 

She should weigh no more than 15 pounds. When she was a stray she had a broken paw that healed wrong, so it's even more important that she not have extra weight. For the first 2.5 years there were no issues and now the past few months she's been gaining. She weighed almost 27 pounds at her visit this week! 

She's active and loves to play fetch. She runs a lot inside and outside of the house. 

I had read about the green beans so I think I will try that. The thing for me is that I know she's not actually eating that much so reducing her .5 cup seems wrong. 

[Pawz4me]

Did the vet check the T3 and T4 levels, or just TSH? Especially since the TSH is high normal I'd want to know about T3 and T4. Those two are the actual thyroid hormones. TSH is a measurement of the pituitary gland, a very indirect way of determining thyroid function.

[Joker]

1 minute ago, Pawz4me said:

Did the vet check the T3 and T4 levels, or just TSH? Especially since the TSH is high normal I'd want to know about T3 and T4. Those two are the actual thyroid hormones. TSH is a measurement of the pituitary gland, a very indirect way of determining thyroid function.

They tested those as well and they were within normal. The TSH was within normal but the vet said it was high enough they would want to redo it in about six months.

[Pawz4me]

FWIW, in giving this just a bit more thought -- One of our former dogs weighed 28-30 pounds (a good weight for her) and she maintained that on 1/2 cup of kibble per day plus a nightly biscuit. I rotated kibble brands, but that 1/2 cup she ate probably averaged around 200 calories. And we took long walks almost every day, plus she ran around the yard a lot with our other (extremely active) dog. She was very healthy, just a really easy keeper. Unfortunately for her, she was like me--she wanted to eat a LOT more than her body could tolerate w/o gaining weight.  Our current dog weighs 16 pounds and eats very little. I fed kibble for awhile when he was younger and he ate at most 1/3 cup a day. That would have been a very hungry day for him. Yesterday he ate nothing (not uncommon) and today he ate maybe 1/4 of a can of food, which appears to be about 85 calories, plus some chopped green pepper. I tell people that he lives on air. So 1/2 a cup of kibble for a dog her size actually seems more than adequate to me. Like I said, my current dog couldn't (wouldn't) eat nearly that much in volume or calories.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Pawz4me

[ktgrok]

I'd try switching to canned instead of dry for a while, using a ground style not chunky style. Canned tends to be less carbs, and more moisture, which is more natural. Better yet would be homemade cooked or raw, but I'd definitely go for higher protein and less carbs. More nutrient dense, basically. My overweight lazy cat has dropped a significant amount of weight just switching to canned, and my senior border collie is finally losing on a homemade diet. 

Also By feeding so much less than the manufacture says it is possible the dog isn't getting enough nutrients, as they base those on feeding the full amount.