FYI for CTY Families

[Crimson Wife]

If a student has qualified for CTY in grades 6 or below through the SCAT, CTY is no longer requiring retesting in 7th grade for continued eligibility. I'm still having my 7th grader take the SAT for possible SET and/or DYS qualification, but it's nice to see that is now optional rather than required.

Quote

 

We're writing to let you know of changes to the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth’s eligibility policy effective this month for CTY Online Programs, and for Summer Programs in 2019 and beyond

CTY has always been committed to a rigorous approach to assessment, to meeting academically advanced students where they are, and to achieving what our founder, Julian Stanley, called optimal match, the equating of a child's educational experiences to their abilities, demonstrated achievement, interests, and motivations.

We regularly review how we approach program eligibility, and after careful analysis, we are unifying CTY program eligibility under a single system. Under this system, students will no longer be required retest at grade 7. Once students qualify, there will be program and course options available to them until they complete high school. The programs and courses available will depend upon their age, grade, and specific scores. Some courses will require scores at the "CTY" eligibility level, and others will require scores at the "Advanced CTY" eligibility level, ensuring that students are matched with opportunities at the level that is right for them. Students may choose to retest at any time for other reasons, but retesting is not required to have program options. Please visit our website for more information about CTY's Eligibility Policy.

All students currently eligible for courses in our various programs will continue to have course options available. Please remember that note that CTY's revised eligibility policy applies for Summer Programs in 2019 and beyond. Visit MyCTY to see your child's eligibility level.

Sincerely,

Frank Williams
Associate Director of Testing and Assessment
Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth

 

 

[gstharr]

Interesting.  I just took a quick look at the new eligibility requirements. CTY level is test scores two grade level of above current grade. Advanced CTY is four grade levels above.. Of the online classes,  only around six require Advanced CTY scores--mostly AP sciences.  Hate to be cynical, but this looks like a move to keep more kids in the system after 6th grade.  This coming from a CTY family since 2nd grade, and waiting for SAT scores to come out tomorrow to see if the just turned 13 y.o. made SET

[RoundAbout]

I'm cynical as well. Especially because I imagine their online programs are super lucrative. I would rather see a push to bring new kids in (especially minority and under-represented through waiving testing fees). In our previous city they had a test-once-in-for-life policy for their self-contained accelerated/gifted program that ran from 1st-12th grade. It led to a big watering down of content after middle school. Some kids who were just developmentally ahead at age 7 could not keep up with a demanding program at age 14. 

However, perhaps its the case almost every kid who qualifies once, qualifies again later. If CTY has this data and is basing their decision on that then kudos for cutting out an unnecessary step.

 

[Dmmetler]

I find it interesting as well. Having said that, DD was qualified through high school based on an SAT at age 10, so for me, it was kind of a “you mean that wasn’t the case already?”. And she still is in about the same % as a 13 yr old rising 10th grader as she was in 1st (the only time she took the SCAT, because the EXPLORE was more useful). 

 

 

[gstharr]

Having looked at the new eligibility requirements further, not only does it seem CTY is trying to keep more kids in the system after 6th grade, but the lower tier criteria  opens  CTY to nearly everybody.  For example, 6th grade SAT  math requirements for CTY Level is 340, and at 9th grade it is 520. CTY level opens access to  all but AP sciences .   For access to AP sciences, Advanced CTY level at 9th grade is a respectable 620 math. Guess with so many competing programs (including Stanford doing their own High School, and summer program), something had to be done to keep the machine running.

ETA:  If it seems that I am irked, it is because I am.  The new 8th grader went through the hoops at 6th grade to maintain his eligibility.  He took the Advanced SCAT and PSAT 8/9.  His scores qualify him for all things CTY even under new criteria.  Then he studied to take the SAT before he turned 13 to make SET. He/we  really don't care about SET benefits.  He just wants to go to the award ceremony at John Hopkins.  I've had to keep low about the ceremony because I'm not sure if they will be holding one.  Oh well, he had a great 6 years with the program. 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by gstharr
clarification

[SeaConquest]

CTY already waives fees for low income families and has very generous scholarship money. I think the larger issue is that low income families often just don't know about the programs. Sacha is at CTY camp at the moment, and the ethnic homogeneity of the camp is as striking as it was last year. I would really like to see more outreach and diversity in their programs. Also, lots of (presumably wealthy) international students holding Chinese passports at checkin/orientation.

We just got Sacha's Smarter Balance scores from our charter, which would qualify him for Duke TIP. I wonder if their camps are any more diverse? 

[RoundAbout]

1 hour ago, SeaConquest said:

CTY already waives fees for low income families and has very generous scholarship money. I think the larger issue is that low income families often just don't know about the programs. Sacha is at CTY camp at the moment, and the ethnic homogeneity of the camp is as striking as it was last year. I would really like to see more outreach and diversity in their programs. Also, lots of (presumably wealthy) international students holding Chinese passports at checkin/orientation.

 

 

Concur. I agree about the scholarships being generous. We've been the recipients of them twice. OTOH the hoops you have to jump through would discourage a lot of people who are truly from a lower socio-economic status. For instance having to put the entire balance of a camp on our credit card while waiting to hear whether we qualified for aid. Even though we would have gotten a refund if not qualified, that's not something a lot of super low income people could do. Or tracking down where to get tested and paying for the testing fees up front. So I agree some of it is about outreach but there is also just a lot of friction and that can be intimidating to a lot of poor people (I grew up super poor, so have some clue). Feels like their aid is really for middle class educated folks who are just short on funds at the moment, rather than really about creating opportunities for lower income kids.

But in any case, curious to see how it turns out and how this decision might change the direction of the program. 

[Crimson Wife]

1 hour ago, HeighHo said:

With the decrease in honors availability at many nonsuburban schools, I'm happy CTY is trying to serve that market as well.  So helpful for rural students.

Suburban schools too with the adoption of Common Core. Our zoned middle school went from offering 4 different 8th grade math courses (geometry for accelerated, algebra 1 for regular college prep, 8th grade math for general ed, and remedial) to sticking everyone in Common Core Math 8. Remedial students get an extra period of "math support" but they're still in the same class as everyone else. Everyone takes Algebra 1 in 9th, again with remedial students getting an extra period of "math support". If they fail to pass Algebra 1 in 9th, they get placed into a 2 year Algebra 1A & 1B sequence for 10th and 11th. Now why the school doesn't just place the remedial students taking Common Core Math 8 with the extra period of "math support" into the 2 year sequence to begin with rather than waiting for them to fail regular Algebra 1, who knows?

Sticking everyone regardless of ability into the same course is stupid and hurts both the high achievers and the struggling students. Abstract concepts are hard for my 3rd child to grasp due to her neurological syndrome. The pacing and repetition necessary for her would bore a typically developing student, let alone a non-2E gifted one.

[gstharr]

On 7/9/2018 at 11:32 PM, gstharr said:

Interesting.  I just took a quick look at the new eligibility requirements. CTY level is test scores two grade level of above current grade. Advanced CTY is four grade levels above.. Of the online classes,  only around six require Advanced CTY scores--mostly AP sciences.  Hate to be cynical, but this looks like a move to keep more kids in the system after 6th grade.  This coming from a CTY family since 2nd grade, and waiting for SAT scores to come out tomorrow to see if the just turned 13 y.o. made SET

 

 

A little off topic, but  i mentioned we were waiting for the June 2nd SAT scores to see if he made SET.   Got the scores this morning. he missed 5 on math  and got a 690. A very brutal curve this session:  2 wrong = 750, 4 wrong = 700. On any of the recent past exams he would have had 720-740.. Oh well, he gave it his best and he beat his best practices by 2 questions.  But, what I am more pleased  by his 640 Reading.  He did one casual practice test since we were only trying to qualify with math.  

 

[Dmmetler]

2 hours ago, gstharr said:

 

 

A little off topic, but  i mentioned we were waiting for the June 2nd SAT scores to see if he made SET.   Got the scores this morning. he missed 5 on math  and got a 690. A very brutal curve this session:  2 wrong = 750, 4 wrong = 700. On any of the recent past exams he would have had 720-740.. Oh well, he gave it his best and he beat his best practices by 2 questions.  But, what I am more pleased  by his 640 Reading.  He did one casual practice test since we were only trying to qualify with math.  

 

He did extremely well ?. Hopefully he realizes that (DD was upset at her most recent ACT because her science score wasn’t as high as she felt it should be).

[gstharr]

3 hours ago, dmmetler said:

He did extremely well ?. Hopefully he realizes that (DD was upset at her most recent ACT because her science score wasn’t as high as she felt it should be).

Thanks all. He away at CTY. I got this text:  "Wow. I'm surprised. That's amazing. I was so close!"

[gstharr]

On 7/10/2018 at 5:50 AM, gstharr said:

Having looked at the new eligibility requirements further, not only does it seem CTY is trying to keep more kids in the system after 6th grade, but the lower tier criteria  opens  CTY to nearly everybody.  For example, 6th grade SAT  math requirements for CTY Level is 340, and at 9th grade it is 520. CTY level opens access to  all but AP sciences .   For access to AP sciences, Advanced CTY level at 9th grade is a respectable 620 math. Guess with so many competing programs (including Stanford doing their own High School, and summer program), something had to be done to keep the machine running.

ETA:  If it seems that I am irked, it is because I am.  The new 8th grader went through the hoops at 6th grade to maintain his eligibility.  He took the Advanced SCAT and PSAT 8/9.  His scores qualify him for all things CTY even under new criteria.  Then he studied to take the SAT before he turned 13 to make SET. He/we  really don't care about SET benefits.  He just wants to go to the award ceremony at John Hopkins.  I've had to keep low about the ceremony because I'm not sure if they will be holding one.  Oh well, he had a great 6 years with the program. 

 

 

As shown here, I did not think too favorably of CTY's change of requirements. My kid did jumped all the old hoops to stay in the program at 6th grade, only to have the requirements lowered. Now I am eating a big lice of humble pie, topped with heaping of crow.  We found about the Jack Kent Cooke Young Scholar program in March.  The application asked for SAT/ACT and PSAT scores , if  available. Started not to apply, because we did not have any of those. His SAT was not  scheduled until for June 2nd, well after the application deadline.  So all we had were the Advanced SCAT an PSAT 8/9,   Well, he got selected. The scholarship is a life changer.