Book ideas for read-alouds w/ASD kiddo

[2Peanuts]

Hi all,

I was wondering if you could share with me some book ideas for read-alouds with my DS9. He is not so good at picturing the images or action in his head, so I like to read books with lots of illustrations to support his comprehension.

I often look at booklists of early chapter books or 1st read-alouds but many of the tried-and-true for the neurotypical crowd are complete bombs with my kid. Wondering if any of you have had the same experience.

For example, Cricket in Times Square? He spaced out through most of it...listened to me patiently but I don't think he soaked up much of the story. Little House on the Prairie would be another bomb because he has a hard time picturing stuff that we don't see anymore today. Plus lots of descriptive writing = brain has to work too hard to understand so he stops after a while. Toys Go Out is another highly recommended book that doesn't work for us because one of the characters says things like, "At the vet's office, they use needles the size of carrots!" Statements like that have a high probability of turning into a negative association for my kid, and he'll be afraid to go anywhere near a doctor or vet's office, for fear of needles the size of carrots. (We've discovered this, unfortunately, with Mercy Watson and butter. Can't say the word without eliciting a warning about a pig barging through our house.)

So...now that you know what I don't want...what DO I want? ?

I recently got Elise Broach's Miniature World of James & Marvin, which has a nice 50-50 split of text & illustrations on the page, which got a huge smile out of him --- so more like that would be awesome! Zapato Power, Nate the Great & Flat Stanley are decent transition books --- they have slightly fewer pictures than James & Marvin but they were simple enough to hold his interest.

We just discovered Geronimo Stilton (I know...I'm late to the game on that one!) so I'll be trying out more of those. He enjoys the pictures but I'm pretty sure at least half of the content isn't getting through.

He loves graphic novels --- the sillier, the better. But, what I'd really like to do is start building that bridge to books that are heavier on text so that he has more options available to him. I just want to get him there gently and happily so he'll still enjoy books, even when they're hard to read. I know...tall order for any kid, not just ones with reading challenges. ?

But I figured if anyone could give me ideas, this group could. Thank you!

[Lecka]

Check out Scholastic Branches line.  My son likes Press Start, Haggis and Tank, Dragon Masters, and Eerie Elementary.

Check appropriateness but Dog Man is very popular right now.

We still do a lot of Peppa Pig books here.  

 

[Lecka]

Also feel free to do comprehension checks with him or talk about the story if you wonder how much he is getting out of it.  I get surprised both ways!  And then sometimes he likes a book but isn’t catching a lot of it and likes for me to explain a lot of it to him more easily.  

Things like that are all good to do. 

I also feel free to amend parts if I think it’s better to, if you can foresee problems like the big needles, you can skip or change it. It’s hard to predict though sometimes.  

[2Peanuts]

Lecka --- Branches! I forgot about that series. He loved Kung Pow Chicken, Haggis & Tank (I love those names), and Owl Diaries. Haven't tried the others you suggested, so will put those on my list to see if the library has them!

And yeah...I'm not good about skipping over stuff on the spot. I don't always pre-read the books and then I'm halfway into a passage, thinking, "Abort! Abort!" but I can't figure out how to get out of it, except to just close the book and say, "Oh, I think we've read enough tonight..." ?

HeighHo --- I've heard of Jan Brett but not Steven Kellogg. I'll look them up at the library. Are you thinking of any specific fairy tales or tall tales they've illustrated/written?

[HomeAgain]

What about something with short stories (2-5 pages), like Wayside School?  They're all connected, but aren't too deep on the descriptive text.

Here's a series you might look at for later, or when you think he can handle them.  They're called The Whole Story, and they're unabridged classics.  Along with nearly every page having an illustration, there are also "bites" along the edges that show specific vocabulary and gives the reader a picture to connect to the text.  The one I linked is the one we're reading right now.  In addition to all the smaller illustrations and bites are full pages - 3 in one chapter just on kinds of ships that they would have seen along the docks. 
 

[2Peanuts]

17 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

What about something with short stories (2-5 pages), like Wayside School?  They're all connected, but aren't too deep on the descriptive text.

Here's a series you might look at for later, or when you think he can handle them.  They're called The Whole Story, and they're unabridged classics.  Along with nearly every page having an illustration, there are also "bites" along the edges that show specific vocabulary and gives the reader a picture to connect to the text.  The one I linked is the one we're reading right now.  In addition to all the smaller illustrations and bites are full pages - 3 in one chapter just on kinds of ships that they would have seen along the docks. 
 

Oh my gosh...I'm loving The Whole Story concept! Thank you for introducing me to these books! I'll have to put them on my Wish List for when kiddo gets a little older.

And I haven't tried the Wayside School series, although I've seen it around. I'll give it a try...thanks!

[Lecka]

Two other reading comprehension programs that have been discussed pretty recently are Visualizing and Verbalizing, and Mindwings.  

I don’t have first-hand experience of them but I think they are both work looking at ?

[Lecka]

Also we have this book https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1619639882/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF and it’s from a line similar to Scholastic Branches.  It’s one where my son liked it but he isn’t as interested in reading more in the series.  

[2Peanuts]

12 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

One thing that is also helpful is to have a running family story.  Each week, add to it...first recalling the plot so far, then each contributing a scene.  No need to write, the recall and continued fleshing out of the story helps develop the imagination. Our story went throughout the neighborhood, including the sewer grates and up in the trees.

Love the idea of having a running story that we make up as a family! That's such a great idea! 

7 minutes ago, Lecka said:

Two other reading comprehension programs that have been discussed pretty recently are Visualizing and Verbalizing, and Mindwings.  

I don’t have first-hand experience of them but I think they are both work looking at ?

We actually use V&V. I've been using it with him for about 1-1/2 years now. I think it's a great program but it's very draining (for both of us) because it takes a lot of energy for him to come up with the pictures and then the words to describe his pictures. Not an easy task for a kid with expressive/receptive language disorder. I try to keep our read-alouds light and relatively easy for him for that reason. (Our read-alouds are not part of our "official" school day; they're mostly done at bedtime or when we're both really excited by a cool find at the bookstore/library.) ? 

4 minutes ago, Lecka said:

Also we have this book https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1619639882/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF and it’s from a line similar to Scholastic Branches.  It’s one where my son liked it but he isn’t as interested in reading more in the series.  

These books look cute! I'll have to see if my library carries this series. Thanks!

[PeterPan]

11 minutes ago, 2Peanuts said:

Love the idea of having a running story that we make up as a family! That's such a great idea! 

We actually use V&V. I've been using it with him for about 1-1/2 years now. I think it's a great program but it's very draining (for both of us) because it takes a lot of energy for him to come up with the pictures and then the words to describe his pictures. Not an easy task for a kid with expressive/receptive language disorder. I try to keep our read-alouds light and relatively easy for him for that reason. (Our read-alouds are not part of our "official" school day; they're mostly done at bedtime or when we're both really excited by a cool find at the bookstore/library.) ? 

These books look cute! I'll have to see if my library carries this series. Thanks!

I was going to ask if you had done V/V. If you think he's visualizing successfully with it (like he can confirm with a thumb up/down that he has it, then maybe you're solving the wrong problem. It's more likely the language disability is causing comprehension problems. Do you have updated SLP testing? We ran the TNL and the SPELT. The results on my ds were astonishing. 

My ds is a mix for comprehension and what he'll listen to. Some people refuse to listen if they don't comprehend. He will listen to things beyond his comprehension, because he has the ability to memorize. He likes audiobooks that he can listen to over and over, because he's memorizing them. The repetition builds comprehension. We're going back now and working on language specifically. Now I finally have a sense that I could start with maybe K5 level Sonlight read alouds with ds and have them fit. I haven't even gone to look. I just remember the SL books I was reading my dd at 5 (New Toes for Tia, etc.), and I'm like ok those would fit. That's AFTER doing tons of language work intensively (2-3 hours a day) the last few weeks. 

You might look at my narrative language thread and see if anything strikes you. One of the workbooks I'm using is available free online as a pdf, and it might hit some holes based on what you're saying was happening with V/V. Also the SPARC books might be a good fit. 

Also, if his visualization is that poor, he may have developmental vision problems. And if he has developmental vision problems, he may have retained reflexes. Working on reflexes can give you a language burst.

[PeterPan]

Btw, I got the Talkies manual (the pre-level of V/V for people with ASD), and they use that thumbs up/down approach. If you feel like V/V wasn't successful, you could go back to Talkies. But if what you did in V/V worked and the issue is his language, then that's a different thing. The V/V people seem to posit that doing Talkies/V/V will build language comprehension, but personally I think that's a stretch. It's fine stuff, but there's a lot more you can do to work explicitly on language. And if the language isn't there, then comprehension is going to be affected. My ds' comprehension of a narrative (just a narrative, not a BOOK) was age 8.5 equivalent. His age at the time was 9.5 and his IQ gifted. And that was receptive, his best part of language! His expressive was much, much lower. So think about that. It's no WONDER my ds wasn't wanting to engage with read alouds because, hello, his ability to interact with a narrative and comprehend it was low.

I'm with you on the use of visuals btw. But they're really not a substitute for working on the language. https://www.weareteachers.com/15-must-have-picture-books-for-teaching-social-emotional-skills/  That's the list we're getting ready to start. 

After that, after you know the language is there, the next thing you do for comprehension is dig in on stuff like story grammar elements, setting them up to engage. LitWits has kits and there's StoryGrammar Marker, which has an autism kit. Mine just came. With the central coherence issues of autism, he could listen, understand the language, and STILL have no clue what happened in the book. You end up needing to teach the critical thinking with shorter works and then build him up to longer works once he realizes what he's listening for and can follow the plot. Another way to see that is with tv shows. Does he comprehend tv? Does he sit and watch tv? Can he answer basic questions during the show if you pause it? Like if we're watching the A-Team (yes, my ds is into this right now, lol) and I say what is the team's problem, he might have NO CLUE. If I ask what so and so's problem is or how they feel and what they might do about their problem or what their plan is, no clue. And the Mindwings people are like oh, doesn't have to be a problem! Well fine, but he still has no clue. And that no clue isn't just with lit. It's also with tv shows, life, everywhere. 

So that's why the SGM/MW people are writing these manuals showing how working on central coherence and critical thinking builds comprehension in lit but carries over into problem solving in real life.

[Lecka]

Mindwings is focusing on a different kind of intervention, where they teach the typical parts of a story to help with comprehension.

So for a mystery, you might expect there to be a mystery, someone to solve the mystery, a process of trying to solve the mystery (looking for clues, interviewing people, etc), and then solving the mystery.

So it has a different focus than visualizing.  

Things can have synergy though, if he understands more about story structure it could make it easier to visualize.  If he visualizes easier he could have more mental energy for keeping track of the story elements as he reads.  

There are a lot of things out there for story structure, I do think Mindwings looks very good and I like they have an autism series.  It’s probably a next-year thing for me (or later this year).  (My son is in public school so I leave a lot of things for school and then just pick up a few things at home.)

[2Peanuts]

Oh gosh...lots to think about here.

PeterPan --- DS just went through a pretty thorough neuropsych evaluation a few weeks ago. I expect to get the report within the next few weeks which should give us some pointers. The psychologist did say that he thinks there may be some attention issues present. So, I'm still trying to noodle through if his interest level is a reflection of bona fide comprehension issues or attention issues. I don't think there are other medical issues present.

I like the thumbs up/thumbs down check-in. I often do stop to talk about what we're reading to make sure he's with me. Although, I admit, some days I have more energy to do that than others. ? 

I'll have to check out Mindwings again since I've seen it mentioned several times. I researched it a year or two ago but I think I went with V&V instead. And also hop over to the Narrative thread to find the resources you mentioned. Anything to help us with comprehension!

By the way, I clicked over to the list of books you referenced. Lots of nice choices there! I am rather partial to anything written or illustrated by Peter H. Reynolds (whose book is 9th on the list). Ish is one of the best books I've ever read & it's one I would give to every kid if I could. Dot is a close second. But since we read Ish first, Ish still holds top spot in my heart. ? Another great book in that same vein (vane?) is What Do You Do With a Problem?

Thanks, as always, for all the suggestions!

[PeterPan]

Oh I think it's all good! I'm not saying it's bad that you went V/V, because it's awesome. I got the manual for V/V and Talkies and that's what we're heading into. I'm just saying comprehension is complex, not one issue, and ONE RESOURCE is not going to solve it, not with autism.

Ok, sigh, I hear you on the attention, but then put him on the meds and see. The ADHD doesn't cause the central coherence issues or difficulty with following a plot. If you put him in motion, does he do better? Like my dd, your more typical straight ADHD profile, understood just fine if she was in motion. So we read out in the yard while she ran around. That was fine! Working with her ADHD made her able to intersect with the books. 

Moreau behind MW/SGM specifically developed her materials to build comprehension. Then she had a ding ding duh moment where she realized they could write using it. Then they had a ding ding moment about expository. But the ROOTS were for comprehension. If you don't get the plot, if you don't get why people are doing things, then it's all just a series of pretty sentences or action moments.

And maybe he can skate by with a picture book, one plot line, but longer books ,tv shows, these have a bunch of plot threads happening at once. The dc can't follow them, has no clue why they're happening, doesn't see how the plots weave together, doesn't know why anything is happening. 

It's doubtful your neuropsych did much language testing. You need an SLP. You're looking for things like the Test of Narrative Learning, the Structured Photographic Expressive Language Test, and the Test of Problem Solving. Good luck finding an SLP who has them. If you can get them or beg someone to buy them or buy them yourself and hand it to them or whatever, those tests would yield you useful, actionable data. Really tight, really useful. Our neuropsych only ran the CELF. There's also a CELF Metalinguistics that your ds is old enough for.

My dd was telling me today that all I've succeed is doing is making ds mediocre at lots of things instead of really good at some and incapable of others. Fine, whatever. Not like I'm doing this perfectly, sigh. But would I stop building language skills? No, because I'm not confused. For my ds there ain't no pretty where we ignore it and just go on and do other school work. It was glitching up EVERYTHING.

[Lecka]

I was thinking about this some more.... here’s what my thought process has been recently...

I felt like my son was too reliant on pictures to the point of not listening well.  I thought less pictures would make him listen better.  

This worked a bit..... I read him Magic Tree House and he could answer literal questions about what was happening in the story.  

This was great progress and very good for him as far as being able to answer literal questions about things in the story.  

He had been working on listening to a short paragraph and then answering wh questions about basic, directly stated information.

So then he was listening more/better.

But then I realized he wasn’t getting anything really cohesive about Magic Tree House.  He did get some, he would get they were looking for some item for Morgan.  But he was not getting too much cohesive from it and it made it a little unpleasant. 

Then now I am back to things with pictures, and I think they aid his comprehension, help him focus on the book, and add to his enjoyment. But I also think he is listening to the words and paying attention to the words. 

In retrospect I think two things.... one is it is nice for me to know he “can” listen to Magic Tree House.  It is meaningful to me.  Two is I think that practicing with short paragraphs and being able to answer wh questions was very tied to his literal comprehension, more than I had expected it to be.  If my son can’t answer the most basic questions he is too lost to not really stop and explain, re-read, or maybe move on to a different book.  And then, answering the most basic questions is something, but it’s not automatically going to get to the point where he has a cohesive understanding.

Then the other thing, I have tried hard to do more comprehension strategies, think-aloud strategies, slowing down, talking, asking rhetorical questions about what is happening in the story, all these things.  I have tried making graphic organizers and filling them in — this is very hard for me though, I don’t do it very much, just sometimes.  

Anyway — what motivated that for me was seeing the lack of comprehension with Magic Tree House even when he WAS paying good attention to the words, and he could answer the basic questions.  

I had thought more would just kick in at that point, and it just did not kick in.

But I am very pleased now with more cohesion I am seeing back in easier books that do have pictures, it’s just taking longer than I had thought it would take.  

[Lecka]

Anyway — I do think Mindwings looks good for helping to guide comprehension discussion while doing read-aloud.  I have gotten ideas I do now from blogs and things, and I think Mindwings would help make it easier for me.  But I’m also okay where we are now, I think I want it more for the next step up.  

It’s one of those things, i could easily do with my other two kids (or at least pretty easily) but it is a lot harder with this son because it is a harder skill for him.  

[PeterPan]

4 hours ago, Lecka said:

But then I realized he wasn’t getting anything really cohesive about Magic Tree House.  He did get some, he would get they were looking for some item for Morgan.  But he was not getting too much cohesive from it and it made it a little unpleasant. 

Then now I am back to things with pictures, and I think they aid his comprehension, help him focus on the book, and add to his enjoyment. But I also think he is listening to the words and paying attention to the words. 

Yes, my ds is a lover of language and enjoys the sound of language, enjoys memorizing the language. It's not the same thing as central coherence, as getting the plot, as getting what people are feeling, what their plans are to deal with their problems/situations/goals, etc. 

When ds was young, he would walk away from tv and movies. He'd say he wanted to watch something as a family and then just walk away. Now he doesn't walk away necessarily, but you ask him questions and it's clear he's not GETTING what's going on and connecting the pieces. He can repeat lines, but he doesn't get the plot line and can't therefore use that to make inferences or predictions. Or he might get PART of the plot, maybe a less important or side plot or parts of the whole. That's where he's at now. He gets something and is trying, but he's not necessarily getting all the lines of plot and how they weave together. 

I think it's a really good point (and maybe what Lecka was implying but not wanting to say or maybe didn't think) to wonder ok, does dissecting a book and coming at it from these elements KILL it. And my question is always wondering HOW DO THESE SKILLS DEVELOP NATURALLY. 

For right now, what I'm doing, and this is just me, is I'm focusing on the problem solving and the cause/effect using workbooks. My theory is that those are fundamental, foundational glitches. I don't see how my ds can go to literature and problem solve when he can't problem solve ANYWHERE. And while they'll say oh teach problem solving through the literature! Well fine, but I think the workbooks I'm using are more thorough.

No-Glamour® Problem Solving

Spotlight on Listening Comprehension Reasoning and Problem Solving

Spotlight on Listening Comprehension Making Inferences

No-Glamour® Language & Reasoning

Spotlight on Reasoning & Problem Solving 6-Book Set

If you go to LInguisystems and type problem solving in the search box, you'll get more. They have games, etc. But those are resources that specifically target problem solving. That No Glamour book is 244 pages and builds from super simple to using language completely to solve problems. It's amazing. I think it's going to take us about 10 weeks to get through, even at a very vigorous (5 pages a day) pace, and normally it's something that would last in speech therapy for an entire year I think. It has 90 pages at the end that are just complete scenarios of problem solving. Look at the toc and see the steps it goes through. Every single one of those is essential, when you see it in place, and I don't see going at problem solving via lit getting us to the same place. For my ds, doing each of those steps individually is instructive and useful. So where it says "identifying problems" it literally means the student figures out if there is a problem or not. It's not as obvious as it sounds and they get the kids to think and discriminate. Then for stating the problems, think about it. You could have a scenario (you feel a certain way) and you're actually latching on the WRONG PROBLEM. We've all had that, lol. So what a huge thing to have 20 pages of working on making sure we're identifying the REAL PROBLEM. 

So yeah, total good buy, amazing workbook. I'm so impressed, I'm getting ready to do the No Glamour Language & Reasoning next. I'm trying to get in my ds' head and build these thought processes, because honestly his logic is so screwy it's scary. It's a HUGE PROBLEM when he's not thinking about a situation clearly. It will be revolutionary for him to realize that I'm right when I'm saying to him in real life what's your problem, let's identify your biggest problem, let's find the problem we can do something about...

Where was this going? LOL LitWits has guides that help improve engagement with literature by doing hands-on etc. You can google for their website. I get their emails. I haven't done any yet, because ds just isn't there. Jenn from here on the boards did them with her ds with apraxia and autism and apparently liked them. Building connections to the material is another way to improve comprehension.

[PeterPan]

4 hours ago, Lecka said:

It’s one of those things, i could easily do with my other two kids (or at least pretty easily) but it is a lot harder with this son because it is a harder skill for him.  

When I talked with Moreau, she liked that I was doing it in real life. She thought the real life stuff was really, really foundational. Like make lists about your day, talk about the weather, etc. Your plan for the day is the beads. Your weather, how you feel about it, something exciting that is happening, what you'd like to do, these are your setting star, the heart feelings, your glove... I don't think there's any compulsion to rush to plot. If they aren't doing it in real life, where are we? Real life is where it's at. You could hold up your five fingers and go through the senses as you talk about today. (how does it look, etc.)

[Lecka]

What we are seeing is he does pretty well in real life.  

He also does pretty well with books that are very relatable for him.  He does well with books about school, kids who do similar things as he does, dogs, common events like holidays and special occasions he is personally familiar with.

But then have the kids from Magic Tree House travel back in time to a medieval castle, and that’s a lot, lot harder for him.

He also has a lot of problems with vocabulary, which makes unfamiliar things harder for him. 

[Lecka]

Are all of the books you use multiple choice?

He does do multiple choice also, but I don’t do it with him.

With using stories, I like that I can start by asking him open-ended, where he has to come up with an answer.

Then I can see what he says.

If he says something that doesn’t make sense I can try to explain to him.

If he has no idea, then I can offer him a choice (like doing multiple choice).  If he gets it with a choice, that’s good.  I can give silly choices and one likely choice.  He likes silly choices, and it’s easier.  Or I can make it less easy.

And then if he can’t answer with a choice, to some extent it may be too hard in some way.  

[Guest]

I only skimmed through the replies, but just wanted to add two things. One, you could let your son choose the books. Two, I would suggest varying the complexity. You can add books of various levels and just go slower with the ones with more complex language, to ensure comprehension.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Guest
Posted temporarily. Edited out personal info.

[Kanin]

The Scholastic Branches books are GREAT! I like them for dyslexic readers and readers with comprehension issues. The pictures on each page are really helpful, and even though the books are at a 2nd grade level, they're really interesting!

I just read the Henry Huggins series to my class of 9-11 year olds. They LOVED IT! I think we read 4 of them. I was worried that the books would be too slow/gentle for the modern kid crowd, but nope. Since Henry does lots of stuff at home/in the yard/at school, your son may be able to picture better. I also liked the old-fashioned-ness of the books... it made for some great discussions about what life was like then (1950s) vs. now. Some things were still really relatable (embarrassing part in the school play!) and some weren't (paper drive to raise money at school). Lots and lots of scenes involving kids and pets, too ?

[2Peanuts]

Mainer - I *just* picked up Henry Huggins at the library yesterday! So glad to hear that it was successful with your group. It's on my to-read pile (which is quite deep but I'm working on it!) to see if DS might be able to sit through it.

Thanks!

[Lecka]

I have been paying attention to this for the past day or two.....

The hardest book I have read is a Scholastic Branches book.  My son definitely likes it, he is definitely listening and following along.  But he makes almost no comments with it.

With the easiest books, he is making a lot of comments.  He seems to be much more of an active listener and doing good comprehension things (noticing things, saying something reminds him of something else) with the easiest books.