dealing with laziness and medocracy in ds

[Holly IN]

Ds is really getting on our nerves. He is extremely lazy. His work that he has been turning in is very medocre work. I know he has done so much better in the past. Since he has hit puberty he lost his ability to focus and pay attention. He is very gifted but you sure can't tell that now. I really have put in overtime for this boy.

 

We are at a point where we do not know what to do with this boy. He lost facebook for the 3rd time now. He lost it because he wasn't listening to us. He do believe he may have some attention and focusing problems. This only happened when he hit puberty about 3 years ago. We have started him on Fish Oil EPA/DHA this week. Not sure how long it will take for us to see the difference.

 

Here is one example:

I keep telling him to show his work for his math. He says he does it in his head. So I now tell him that it is counted wrong if he doesn't show his work.

 

Another example:

He is sitting there doing his Biology but takes 2 hours to do it because he keeps talking to his brother and messing around or getting up to get something.

 

Another example:

 

He was supposed to write in complete sentences for Biology study guide.

Here is one answer he gave:

It is inside it. I said what is inside what? He growled at me and said you know what I am talking about. I said no because I am the dumb one and you need to explain to me on this paper what the answer to this question is.

 

another example:

 

dh was talking/teaching ds about computer filmotography. While during all this, ds walked out to go on his facebook. This blew dh's top. He called him back in the room. He kept doing this all night last night.

 

Anybody have a boy like this??? How do you get past this? How do you help your child get past this?

 

I only have about 4 years left of him (dh said that if he doesn't stop this type of attitude of medocre work then we may keep him another year). This has to get better! :glare:

 

I am wondering where the last 3 years went. His sentence writing skills are reverting back to a 5th grade level work but yet his IOWA test results shows he is right on target. Go figure!!

 

I am at my wits end here.

 

HELP!!!

 

Holly

[LisaKinVA]

Well, I'm stumped. Your 16yo is acting like my 9yo! No kidding.

 

I keep hoping he'll grow out of it... I'm not sure *I* can do this with him for the next 7 years! It's frustrating (especially, because I do know exactly what he's capable of, and he's just simply choosing not to live up to his potential).

[Heather in Savannah]

My 13 yr old ds, who has always done everything in a rush is now getting 68% on Algebra tests. I am frustrated with him, because he can get 100% just doing everything in his head! Ds, like yours gets frustrated by having to write out algebra equations....says he doesn't need to as he solved it in his head. DS is now at the point of asking if he can be tested for ADHD. He says he feels like his brain is racing all the time, and it is so difficult to try and slow it down to do the mundane tasks I ask him to do. So, I think we will begin moving in that direction. I do not want to discipline him for something that he has little control over.

[Mandy in TN]

Right there with ya!

 

This is my oldest. He makes me crazy.

 

I went the other way. Instead of holding on tighter, I outsourced everything. He tends to perform better for others. With the exception of Chemistry, this has held true this year. Also, I have found that instructors who are not emotionally vested in the outcome tend to be more patient.:D

 

I know that this may not be helpful, but I wanted to let you know that you are not alone.

Mandy

[Holly IN]

Well, I'm stumped. Your 16yo is acting like my 9yo! No kidding.

 

I keep hoping he'll grow out of it... I'm not sure *I* can do this with him for the next 7 years! It's frustrating (especially, because I do know exactly what he's capable of, and he's just simply choosing not to live up to his potential).

 

Actually he is 14. He hit puberty really early. His dad and I started puberty when we were very young which was unsual. My 10 yr old boy already started puberty.

 

Holly

[Holly IN]

Do you know how long the fish oil works before you notice any changes in a positive direction with focusing?

 

Thanks

 

Holly

[AnnetteB]

Teaching boys at home is an adventure. We have 5 boys and 4 girls and the boys are the most resistant to all this "quality time" with Mom. We hit on a working method early on. I don't require they show their work on paper. They are like human calculators and it just slowed them down to show poor Mom what each step involved. I have possession of the answer keys, so I know they are doing the work in their heads. IF they get scores less than a B on two math lessons in a row, they jump back 5 lessons and work through them all again. Our eldest son would voluntarily go back 10 lessons if it would help him "catch" whatever concept he missed! (we use Saxon through Advanced Mathematics). I wasn't involved in their math lessons except for grading unless they had a question. We don't have anyone on Facebook or MySpace while they still live at home. The graduates who have flown the nest are free to design and maintain a page to stay in touch with family and friends on their own time. My time with them to teach and train them up is too brief to allow these time vacuums. We emphasize to all the children that their job as children is to learn and prepare for adult life. Dad's job is to support his family emotionally and provisionally (he does the grocery shopping ;)) My job is to nurture and educate them.

 

Regarding early puberty, we had one child enter into precocious puberty at eight years of age. I did some research and we cut out all meat and dairy for a period of time. Her "buds" disappeared and puberty was delayed until 11. She was still ahead of the norm around here. We have become more aware of the hormones in foods naturally and the added hormones in others. We now completely avoid the added and work to balance the natural ones.

[titianmom]

Hi,

 

I don't disagree that kids often have an aversion to this thing called, "work". On rare occasions you'll run across a child who just has to get things done and move on. Okay, I've met 1 child in my 46 years who was like that. Ha!

 

However, you might consider something that I learned from a parenting class once.

 

If you have to constantly stand over them to make sure they're doing their work, or if you push them to get things done and can't trust them to work on their own, you may be setting the child up for failure later on. And you always MUST think about junior or princess 10-15 years down the road whenever you work on Character development. Here's why:

 

Once they're away from home (college, etc) they won't have anyone to push them any more, and they will simply not do anything. This applies to moral behavior, as well. We all know of kids that were "good" growing up and once they leave home, they go wild.

 

What happens is, there's simply no one watching their every move or standing over them any more and they can't function without a guide telling them what they should/shouldn't do.

 

How to fix this? Consequences.

 

Don't stand over them, whatever you do. (Unless it's a consequence for not doing their work, like guards in a prison, ha!) You have a life, as well.

 

Tell them simply that if they don't get their work done (a reasonable amount according to their capability), then here are the consequences, and walk away. Leave them to succeed or fail. Then back up what you say! Make the consequences reasonable to the crime.

 

This is how real life is. For ex, you don't have a cop riding around in the car with you all the time to make sure you don't speed. But you know what the consequences are if you do speed. A ticket.

 

You know that you have to get to work on time consistently or you'll get fired. You don't have a boss calling you every morning to wake you up and then drive over to drive you to work. You simply know that the consequences of not getting to work on time will cost you your job.

 

This teaches kids that there are real consequences in life and no one is going to stand over them forever to make sure they do what they're supposed to do.

 

Curing laziness takes a lot of time and follow-through. Don't expect success right away; keep at it.

 

I tell my daughter, "Here's the work (sched) that you have to complete this week. Your time is your own. You can do it all in 2 days and get 3 days off if you want to, but understand that if the work isn't done by COB Friday, here's what will happen to you..." and I walk away. Often she gets it done, sometimes she doesn't and she pays the price. (Usually she loses something fun she likes to do, like playing computer games or watching her kid shows or the weekend is mine, etc, and she works for me.)

 

For guys it might be cleaning out a garage or attic, cleaning the entire house, (anything cleaning will scare 'em good...) etc. Yes, you'll have to stand over them to make sure they're cleaning it, but you'll prob only have to do it once or twice before they realize that the price is just toooo high for not getting their work done. :) You have to follow through and sacrifice yourself to cure lazyness sometimes. But usually the reason why kids get away with lazyness is because they know they can wear you down and you'll not follow through any more. It's a contest of wills ;0)

 

...I just happen to be more stubborn and determined than my kid. And she knows it. (Actually, I have the bluff on her, ha! I'm really a softy but I can't let her know that unless she's hurt or something.)

 

Hope this helps,

Kim

[Cedarmom]

Oh, the joys of puberty!:001_smile:

I think the things you mentioned are good. Keep at them. If he doesn't show his math work he gets docked pointsand re-do.If his sentences are not answering the questions, he should re-do. No free time (video computer,etc) until these are done.

 

I think teen boys need exercise to help them focus. Have him do some sort of it daily. And if he's having trouble focusing, have him do 20 jumping jacks, or run around the house 3x.

 

Laughter. SOmetimes being teachers and moms, we get too focused on all the negatives. Remember to take time to just enjoy your son. Play with him . Laugh with him. Enjoy this time.

[Laurie4b]

Part of this is normal for the time around puberty and just after. My oldest really had his brain fall out for that period of time. He found it again somewhere around age 14. I've heard this from public school teachers in middle school, too. Boys either seem to get this worse, or the way they manifest it bothers adults more, because it's almost always boys whom I hear this about.

 

Part of it is the mother-son thing, too. Outsourcing helps a lot, as does Dad being the nag rather than me.

 

I think heavy exercise really helps boys this age.

 

Some of it does get down to consequences. The most effective consequence I've found is to require work done, the way I want it before they can go to x, y, or z. It hurts to follow through (if it's going to impact teammates, or if you've already paid for lessons, etc.) but it is effective. Just set the rules and follow through with neutral affect. (Don't give in to the temptation to beg and plead so you don't have to dole out consequences! BTDT!)

[Beth in SW WA]

I posted this in your other thread also:

 

Ds was playing Runescape during school hours on Monday and didn't meet his benchmarks for the day.

 

He's on guitar restriction until after Thanksgiving (torture for him not to play at youth group worship). I made him read ALL of Do Hard Things on Tuesday and he's writing a summary of it. AND I added more schoolwork to his list (since he obviously thinks he has extra time in his day to goof-off).

 

Don't mess w/ this mama bear (especially when she has PMS!!)

[Nan in Mass]

With my older one, when he hit high school, my expectations rose. Suddenly, over the summer, I expected his work to be better, because now he was in high school. It wasn't just me, either - his textbooks also expected him to do things like show his work, not overtly, but just because the complexity of the problems was such that he had to. We had a rather miserable 6 months until he was showing his work, dating his papers, answering in full sentences, etc. He wanted badly to please me, so attitude wasn't a problem. The problem was me.

 

With my younger one (14 now), the problem is that he isn't terribly interested in academics right now. I'm dealing with it by slowly trying to get him to do things like date papers (learned my lesson, I did GRIN) and show work, using the nibbled-to-death-by-ducks method. Meanwhile, we have a sort of unwritten pact: I accept that he is much more interested in his latest role-playing game with his friends than in his schoolwork and I keep schoolwork confined to predictable hours, and in return, he tries hard during those hours to be enthusiastic, or at least polite, and do those time-wasting things like showing work. He is rather short-sighted these days and at the beginning of the day, if he doesn't have something coming up within the same day that is going to be fun that he can look forwards to, he panics and sinks into ill-tempered depression at how dreary his whole life is and is going to be forever. Fortunately, he has developped, along with this "attitude", a dry sense of humour. I have to listen carefully for his jokes. They tend to be things that I mistake for being bad (not recognizing that he was joking). Or they are sleepers that set me laughing after we've moved on to something else.

 

Could your son be suffering from short-term depression over the boringness of life and it's unending schoolwork? Or being taken too seriously and not having his jokes recognized as jokes? Or expectations that he doesn't really know how to meet?

 

I had to spend some time working with mine before they understood what I meant by "full sentence". Their early full sentence answers sounded just like your son's. I had to tell them that they couldn't use pronouns. And I had to show them how to echo back whatever information was in the book, not just an answer (usually correct but not what the writer was looking for) from another source. They honestly couldn't do this. They didn't grow up in school where they had to do it all the time.

 

I also had to keep reminding them about grownup manners. Those were other expectations that changed suddenly as they became teenagers. It seems like it takes the years between 13 and 15 to learn how to be a teenager. I think because we have a catch-all word, teenager, we sort of expect a 14yo and an 18yo to be alike, but they grow almost as much between 14 and 18 as they do between 1yo and 5yo. I think you have to just wait some stuff out, and keep repeating yourself about the rest.

 

Hugs and sympathy.

-Nan

[JennW in SoCal]

I think because we have a catch-all word, teenager, we sort of expect a 14yo and an 18yo to be alike, but they grow almost as much between 14 and 18 as they do between 1yo and 5yo. I think you have to just wait some stuff out, and keep repeating yourself about the rest.

 

:iagree:

 

I've watched several young male teens go through this period of losing higher brain function, and it so hard on every parent involved! It doesn't last forever, though it feels at the time like they are doomed to the life of a slacker. They come out of it and turn into wonderful young men, and become capable of handling heavier academics.

 

You've gotten a broad spectrum of advice -- consequences, exercise, patience, outsourcing. I want to add another angle, and that is to find a way for your ds to pursue interests outside the home, like 4-H or church groups or volunteer work. My oldest son's middle school years were exceptionally tough, but it was during this period that he started doing some volunteer work in his field of interest. He quickly became a favorite of the staff, and it made all the difference in his attitude to have something he was excelling in. It also allowed me a chance to see him in a positive light at a time when I was frequently was annoyed and frustrated with him.

 

Hang in there, pick your battles but let some things go.

[SkiMom]

We are also dealing with this, and my ds is only 11. He is extremely bright, very lazy, and growing more so with every year, and argumentative as well. I always joke that my ds has been in the logic stage since he was in Kindergarten! We had him tested when he was 8 and found that he is both ADHD and gifted. This information was helpful for us because now dh and I understand why he acts the way he does. (generally speaking, because I also believe there are also character issues involved) Unfortunately, his behaviour is still very frustrating.

 

So, we deal with him the same way that several other posters have already described:

 

-He is on fish oil.

 

-We limit sugar and junk foods.

 

-We try to enforce logical, natural consequences. Like...if you refuse to wear a coat when you go outside you will be cold...and I will not constantly nag/remind you to take one.

 

-We require regular, unpaid chores around the house. This requires a lot of training and consistant follow up from me. We also try to come up with extra jobs and projects that we do pay him for. He likes having that goal of earning money.

 

-We limit his computer and t.v.time. It's a privilege, not a right. :)

 

-We encourage lots of exercise. My dh actually just built a gym in our garage and my ds will often go out on his own to run on the treadmill, lift weights, or box on the Wii. He also likes to work out with his dad...which is a great opportunity for them to spend time together. And of course, we ski as a family.

 

-We really are careful with who his friends are and how they are influencing him. We have seen some of his friends displaying really nasty attitudes, and unfortunately he is copying them. This is a tough one!

 

-As for school, my ds also refuses to show his math work in writing. I don't make him do it, but if he gets any questions wrong he has to redo them....every one...every day. Sloppy work and incomplete sentences get sent back to be redone until they meet the standards. The key here is being consistant with your standards and following up on them.

 

-Reading is our biggest school battle. He has absolutely no interest in most books so his comprehension is terrible. Oral book discussions are sheer torture for both of us! I've tried to teach him different strategies to help him remember what he's read, even if he isn't interested, but it is still a struggle. Also, I've kept the reading level on the easy side, and interest led.

 

And finally, my ds's behaviours have served to show me where my own character faults lie. I have come to realize that I am impatient, too easily frustrated, lacking in consistancy, prone to anger, and sometimes lazy myself. As a Christian mom I have come to rely heavily on prayer, both for my ds and for myself. I have realized that I need to trust in the Lord to help me to change so that I can set the proper example for my ds, to mold me into the parent that my ds needs me to be, and to work in my son's life as well.

 

Sorry this got long. Despite all our efforts my dh and I still get frustrated with him. In fact, just this morning my dh and I were discussing our ds and reworking our "battle tactics" :), so this subject was very much on my mind which is why I got so long winded. Anyway, I hope some of this helps...and if it doesn't, just know that you are not alone! :grouphug:

[Titus.Two.Five]

My 12 yr old son does some of these same things. He is highly distractable and takes *forever* sometimes to get his school work done, simply because he *allows* himself to day dream, talk to others, etc....

 

I just let him deal with the consequences....AFTER he is all finished and I see that he did not do what he was supposed to do, I repeat the instructions and simply say 'go do it again'. That has really helped! ;)

[74Heaven]

The OP could have been talking about my 16yo dtr. I appreciate all the posts, all the advice and commiserate with all of you about how hard it is to parent and educate such a child.

 

I have one thing to add and that is that those of you with younger children like this, please embrace your new almost-full time job:::: *finding your child's motivations*. They change of course, after you find them. But I try to motivate my teen with what I think is important to her (like taking away social privleges, computer time, phone time, allowances, even "fines") and it all meant *nothing* to her. Now, she would vocalize how awful it was to take away these things but still - no motivation. We even made her quit her part time job because she was so far behind on neglected assignments, weak efforts and sloppy work. We were *sure* this restriction would change hte behavior. Still, nada.

 

Then we took away her high school AWANA Bible Club (kind of like youth group) - 1st week, nada; 2nd week, nada; 3rd week; nada. 4th Week - Wow! She got to work. All of the sudden she is motivated. It took A MONTH!

It took so excruciatingly long. (And taking away AWANA was after the jobs/friends/social losses.) Why did it take so long? I don't know; apparently she thought things would "come back" after some mediocre effort ant some time (and we did have a record of that).

 

Also, we added a new individual sport (swimming) this year for her for P.E. this year and she is very nonathletic and has finally started to see improvement - after 3-4 practices a week (she must go and enjoys going, counts as a P.E. credit) and we talk about translating all that hard work (hundreds of yards of laps every week are a good metaphor for slugging away at something methodically, bit-by-bit, with hard work and determination the only real ingredients).

 

My main reason for posting is that it has been way too draining and a ton of work to figure out *what* is that kid's motivation? Something John Rosemond said was basically, "the punishment/discipline needs to hurt the *kid* more than the parent". So true, but what? Keep looking for it.

 

Hindsight being 20/20, I think I would have given harsher penalties earlier and stuck to them thru longer periods. Also, I have learned not to "care" so much if dtr misses a movie outing or a friend's visit, etc etc. (Our soical calendar is "reasonable" as we have a large extended family and participate in co ops, clubs and activities so it isn't as if the social needs are totally abandoned for a "grounded" teen.)

 

sorry so long

lisa, Mom to 5

[Moni]

Not always . . .

 

But usually when a student is being "lazy" it is quite often the Mother's Laziness. What? It's my fault? This is your fault? what???!!!

Yup, it always comes back to us....sigh... :glare:

 

First off, before academics, the student has to be in a Position to learn.

Happy? Situationally "depressed"? See light at the end of the tunnel? Or feeling hopeless?

Getting enough positives from parents? Feeling valued? loved? etc?

Feeling successful in some area? (chores, clubs, music, scouts, sports,)

 

Once the emotional health is in place, (Mom's task),

then has Mom been following up on the schoolwork? (Mom's task)

Action/Consequence scenarios in place? (Mom's task)

Expectations clear and enforced? (Mom's task)

 

If you require him to show his work, then it doesn't matter if he can do it in his head.

And that's okay.

He can do it in his head....but then once he gets the answer, he has to write out the steps afterward.

So what if it takes longer.

It's about "math is the language of science" so write the Language out.

Or

 

If the steps don't matter, then you can remove that requirement.

 

But he can get the answer in head. Fine. But it's "not about" the answer. It's about the language. Write out the language.

 

Anway, that's just about math.

 

So, first emotional health. Happy, feels loved, etc.

Physical health (nutrition, sleep, exertion (tired/sweaty)

Sleep. Long enough window for sleep? no screens right before bed?

Nutrition - watch for dropping blood sugar, fast metabolism, etc.

 

Assignments.

Set the stage

Start Low and Slow. Build back up over time.

Yeah, he won't get much done the first 3 weeks, but hey, he's not getting much done already so you aren't losing anything really ;)

 

Make sure the requirements are clear.

When the requirements are met, the assignment is completed.

If not, then it's not completed.

 

Action/Consequence.

 

If the student is that out of the habit of working properly, big rewards for little gain help at first.

Gives the student a reminder of what The Good Life was! He's probably forgotten by now!

Gradually, the rewards get small and less immediate, and the requirements increase.

 

All this is a New Habit so it takes a while to become the New Normal.

 

And watch for Mother's reaction.

 

I like to think of the police officer who pulls you over for speeding.

He doesn't whine, roll his eyes, sigh audibly and spout, "Why did you speed again?!!...... I gave you a ticket before....your brother doesn't speed....he gets to avoid court fees... whine/moan/groan....when you are going to stop speeding... huff/puff/sigh......you promised last time.......etc..... :lol:

 

 

Nope.

The officer just states the alleged offense, reminds you of the consequence, and it's up to you to follow through.

If you don't follow through even later he doesn't whine/moan/scold you, just more and worse consequences apply.

 

And the kiddos are smart.

If they know they won't have to eventually do the work, they won't do it. Hey, I wouldn't do it either *wink. They are pretty smart, these kids.

:lol:

 

We don't need to respond emotionally. Action/consequence.

 

The other thing is . . .was Mother Lazy about something else?

Motivating the student?

You can't make a teen boy do anything he doesn't want to do, and if he wants to do something, there's no stopping him!

 

It's mom's job to Motivate.

We can't make them do it, but we can make them wanna. :)

Make it worth their while.

Using pre-set Action/Consequence, not nagging and reminders

 

Again, I think immediate rewards help while the New Habit is being formed. Very Short-term.

He didn't get like this overnight; He won't change to a New Normal overnight either.

By the same token, you/we/Mom didn't let things slide to this level overnight, so we won't change/remember/follow-through properly overnight either.

 

It's a process for all involved to get to the New Normal.

 

But it's worth it!

:seeya:

[Beth in SW WA]

Great post, Moni (as always) :)

[laurad1125]

My ds is somewhat younger but we've had similar issues and just recently (a few months ago) conquered them (for now anyway....)

 

I give ds aprox 1 1/2 hours of school work. I set the timer for 2 hours. When his work is done he gets to spend the rest of the time on screen time (computer, video games, TV.) Maybe you could do something similar with facebook? Then if he dawdles, he hurts no one but himself.

 

When his work gets sloppy, I make him redo it, within the time allotment. Again, sloppiness hurts no one but himself.

 

It's worked for us, so far.....