Navigating playing games on a phone

[sea_mommy]

I need some been there, done that advice.

My ds11 has been asking lately if he can play games on my phone.  Now, I don't play games on my phone (nor does my dh), but his friends play games and he really wants to.  He doesn't play video or computer games (except for the games that come with his typing program).  I feel conflicted about what my answer should be.  He wouldn't have open access to the phone--it would be a game that I approved and would be while he is near me and for a limited amount of time.

Am I opening up a can of worms that I won't be able to stop?  Or maybe this is not really a big deal?  

[PeterPan]

I use a lot of apps with my ds, because he has autism and issues waiting. It's something that I can whip out and give him something to do. Now we have other strategies (theraputty, yoyo, etc.), but for a long time apps were it.

I think in your case you have a bunch of issues to consider.

-time

-internet safety

-advertisements, things they link him to

-appropriateness of the games

-online playing

-what device

-in-app purchases

-addiction potential

I personally would not want my ds' sole way of gaming to be on my phone, because I use my phone. I have an iphone 7+ with the big screen, and I use it all day long. I don't even keep the cell on most of the time. I use it for pictures, for calendar, for alarms. It's my phone, and he does not have the right to be on it. So WHEN would you be ok with him being on it? I think 11 is awfully old to be told you may play Roblox 15 minutes while you sit right beside me, kwim? That's not realistic and it's not how they play. He's gonna want an hour, and I don't give my phone to ds for an hour. I just don't. 

I also don't let my ds have unfettered access to the internet. Many of the new games that boys are going to want are going to have online play and require you to be online. Even something inocuous, like the new Mario Bros app, is going to require them to be online. I don't keep wifi on at my house and using cell is a lot of data. It's just a no go in our house. So any apps that I allow that are online/co-play apps, he only gets to do on special occasions, like when he's at a store with me, at his aunt's house killing time, at a hotel, whatever. It's a natural limiter. If the apps he has in his mind require him to be online (wifi/cell) and you don't want that, that's going to be a point of contention. My ds gets very frustrated when an app requires you to be online and he can't do it. He's younger (9 with autism) and he's used to me saying how it is. But it frustrates him, definitely.

Many apps lure you in by being free and have high in-app purchases to continue playing. My ds was asking for one today that he saw on tv. It's an acceptable app by game play, as far as I can tell (city-building, blah blah, no overt killing), but it is structured to require real money in-app purchases to continue to play. My ds, with his autism, gets VERY stuck on things and perseverates. So in our house, letting him get an app where he's going to get engrossed and then be frustrated because it won't play without $20 in "diamonds" or whatever stupidity is disaster. It's something to talk about upfront and have rules for. I tell my ds upfront, NO IN-APP PURCHASES. Now I've bent that on occasion when they're super low and basically like buying another version of the game. There are apps like that where for like $2 you can buy another ship and it's basically like playing a new game. But I really hate the ones that suck you in and want another $5 or whatever just to make the app keep working. And I usually tell him to cough up the money for things he wants. I would rather pay upfront for an expensive app (like Civ 6, which was $30 ON SALE, if you can imagine, $60 full price) rather than getting those stupid in-app ads constantly. Hate those. And Civ 6 was good btw, worth it, great app. If that's what he wants, give it to him.

Fwiw, when I say no to my ds on an app, I help him then go find something BETTER. Like even if it costs money and what he wanted that I couldn't approve was free, I then go buy him an app that costs money that is better. I try to show that I'm not prudish or un-fun or boring but that this is how we live. So sometimes with redirecting I have to up my game. 

Ok, time and safety. You're saying you want to control by having him with you. I don't know, that doesn't work here. I'm not in your house. I let my ds play for longer periods of time. I keep the device off the internet. There are going to be ads and they're going to be telling his little 11 yo brain to want more. It's just discussions to have. My ds doesn't read books (SLDs) but he does listen to audiobooks. I try to make sure his game time doesn't cut into his audiobook time. So like if your standard is reading 1-2 hours a day, you're going to want to have that discussion about what you expect. But just to say oh 15 minutes of games, that sounds unrealistic to me. An 11 yo isn't wanting to play something dinky he walks away from. He's probably wanting something immersive.

Games and addiction. Everybody has their own opinions on this. When I was starting into apps with my ds, Minecraft was huge. Is it much of a thing now? It feeds into their visual/spatial skills and is immersive for whatever reason. I've never let him have it. I just haven't. He has everything else under the sun that is age-appropriate, but he DOESN'T have minecraft. And when I listen to moms groan about their kids being addicted, I think ok this was probably the right choice for us not to do it. People say there's all kinds of value. I'm just saying I drew a line there. I try to prescreen and disallow all apps that are overtly killing (Call of Duty, things where it is overtly killing) and I try to redirect him from apps that are prone to making people compulsive or stuck. My ds has autism, so he's especially prone to getting stuck. We just don't go there. But what apps is your ds wanting? He's probably not wanting Shark Simulator or something, lol. He's probably wanting something immersive that he can play with his friends online. Find out. Look into it and see what the parameters are and how it's really played. I doubt he's wanting Spider Solitaire, hehe. That's what I play. I play little dorky games like a version of Pong, solitaire, etc. That's not what boy that age are wanting. My dd used a few games in high school, but usually it was stuff like raising frogs or goldfish or mahajong, things for relaxation. I'm doubting that's what an 11 yo boy is wanting, but ask. The more immersive and without end points the game is, the more it's going to be harder to break away from it. The app could be FINE according to your standards but hard to transition from. The app developers aren't wanting you to leave their app, lol. They make money when you're on there and online, because they're showing ads. 

What device? You can get an older ipad for $70 these days. I wouldn't buy an 11 yo a kindle probably, because the apps are pretty limited. My ds has been using a kindle fire for years, and he has some good apps. But when you say you want the really good stuff, you're going to have to move over to the apple app store or maybe android, not the kindle fire. Like Cid Meier's Civilization 6. Is that available for android? I don't know. Something like that would be my benchmark. I'm not a fan of android tablets. We have one for our Mightier app. You talk about something you'd be HAPPY for him to use everyday, there you go. Look into Mightier. No, I just googled it, and Civ 6 is not on android. And all that's telling me is that the money is with apple, that the developers, who are having to pay to develop on these platforms, are going with apple. And apple's platform is better anyway. Mightier, when it started on android, had to use tons of separate apps and switch between them. It was crazy and had a lot of lag. I think maybe now they've got it down to one app, like they were able to do right away with apple.

So what some people do is they get an old phone, an old ipod touch, an old ipad, and that's what the kid gets. No cell plan, no or limited access to wifi (password lock it), and clear plans for what he can have access to and when. But yeah, he's probably going to want the device for 30-60 minutes at a time. I wouldn't even offer it if you aren't actually willing to do that. Unless you really think he just wants to play a round of solitaire or something. If he actually wants to play the great apps, he'll want time. I would try to encourage diversity and try to bring the tech into your school time, so he's using it other ways and not just as this immersive visual/spatial, anti-social kind of experience. Teach him to make movies, use Quizlet, etc. I would have clear parameters for what flies in your house for apps and what doesn't. Like don't be deciding in the moment. Think through ahead of time what your *principles* are and teach them and communicate them clearly. And be exceptionally cautious about any apps anywhere that are getting him to go into online play or co-play. People are able to connect back channel and that may or may not be appropriate for him at this time. My ds understands the game play, but he doesn't understand the social dynamics in those situations, meaning he's not safe to do that. 

If you want a totally safe, probably not too objectionable app you can start with for him, try Goat Simulator. It's hilarious, not particularly addictive, not particularly violent (the goat kicks and head butts things), and it works well on a phone. But you're going to need to find out what he was thinking for apps. He probably has some interests he was wanting to pursue, so your ways of handling it will be customized to that.

 

[Sarah0000]

My kids play apps, computer, and console video games. Parental controls are pretty decent these days, but you will still want to monitor at first to make sure. Be careful of massively multiplayer online (MMO) games since there is usually very little control as to what other players may say.

Personally, my biggest concern is ensuring an addiction doesn't develop or the "I'm bored" syndrome. I very rarely allow my kids to play outside the home or while waiting anywhere. I don't allow them to play video games because they are bored. Also, we will take a video game hiatus if they turn any on first thing in the morning or start asking every day. I do not want video games to become a routine.

[caedmyn]

Well...I let my 12 YO play a couple games on her tablet and my 9 YO play one on the family tablet and I wish I wouldn't have.  They are both the type who'd easily become screen-addicted, and even though they have to earn game time, they get a bit obsessed with "what can I do to earn game time" or "I need more game time" and then obsessed with wanting to use it immediately or incessantly til their time is done.  And the 9 YO has a TERRIBLE attitude after/during even a little bit of game time.  Earning game time really motivates them to do things, but I'm not sure it's an incentive I want to use anymore. 

[Seeking Squirrels]

Does he have any sort of device you can put some games on for him? Any time the kids express interest in a game on my phone I just help them find something similar on their kindles. They still play on my phone sometimes, especially if I forget to bring something along to a waiting room (which we are in weekly). But I don't think I'd download something just for the kids that they would want to spend time on regularly. The things they do play on my phone are all simple games that don't require regular interaction and can be played for short bits of time easily. Mostly just because I don't want to regularly give up my phone. I don't mind if they have games on their kindles, though. Or on my old phone which they use sometimes. It has some games and the Messenger Kids app so they can text and video chat with friends and family. 

 

[PeterPan]

On June 3, 2018 at 6:35 PM, caedmyn said:

Well...I let my 12 YO play a couple games on her tablet and my 9 YO play one on the family tablet and I wish I wouldn't have.  They are both the type who'd easily become screen-addicted, and even though they have to earn game time, they get a bit obsessed with "what can I do to earn game time" or "I need more game time" and then obsessed with wanting to use it immediately or incessantly til their time is done.  And the 9 YO has a TERRIBLE attitude after/during even a little bit of game time.  Earning game time really motivates them to do things, but I'm not sure it's an incentive I want to use anymore. 

It can also help to work on transitions. Ds has a hard time with transitions in general, and with the apps it's just hard. We actively work on it. Like right now, I'm doing multiple hours a day of language (speech therapy) materials with him. I let him do apps between, so he gets to play apps 10 minutes, then work with me, play apps, work with me, back and forth. I also do that with tv, with Nintendo, with legos, with anything he's doing. We actively work on transitions and making responsible choices to comply and leave. When he was younger, we did it with a time warning, like in one minute we're going to transition, blah blah. Now I tell him get to a stopping point so we can work. That was the result of a lot of teaching, not where we started.

[sea_mommy]

On ‎6‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 10:09 PM, PeterPan said:

I use a lot of apps with my ds, because he has autism and issues waiting. It's something that I can whip out and give him something to do. Now we have other strategies (theraputty, yoyo, etc.), but for a long time apps were it.

I think in your case you have a bunch of issues to consider.

-time

-internet safety

-advertisements, things they link him to

-appropriateness of the games

-online playing

-what device

-in-app purchases

-addiction potential

I personally would not want my ds' sole way of gaming to be on my phone, because I use my phone. I have an iphone 7+ with the big screen, and I use it all day long. I don't even keep the cell on most of the time. I use it for pictures, for calendar, for alarms. It's my phone, and he does not have the right to be on it. So WHEN would you be ok with him being on it? I think 11 is awfully old to be told you may play Roblox 15 minutes while you sit right beside me, kwim? That's not realistic and it's not how they play. He's gonna want an hour, and I don't give my phone to ds for an hour. I just don't. 

I also don't let my ds have unfettered access to the internet. Many of the new games that boys are going to want are going to have online play and require you to be online. Even something inocuous, like the new Mario Bros app, is going to require them to be online. I don't keep wifi on at my house and using cell is a lot of data. It's just a no go in our house. So any apps that I allow that are online/co-play apps, he only gets to do on special occasions, like when he's at a store with me, at his aunt's house killing time, at a hotel, whatever. It's a natural limiter. If the apps he has in his mind require him to be online (wifi/cell) and you don't want that, that's going to be a point of contention. My ds gets very frustrated when an app requires you to be online and he can't do it. He's younger (9 with autism) and he's used to me saying how it is. But it frustrates him, definitely.

Many apps lure you in by being free and have high in-app purchases to continue playing. My ds was asking for one today that he saw on tv. It's an acceptable app by game play, as far as I can tell (city-building, blah blah, no overt killing), but it is structured to require real money in-app purchases to continue to play. My ds, with his autism, gets VERY stuck on things and perseverates. So in our house, letting him get an app where he's going to get engrossed and then be frustrated because it won't play without $20 in "diamonds" or whatever stupidity is disaster. It's something to talk about upfront and have rules for. I tell my ds upfront, NO IN-APP PURCHASES. Now I've bent that on occasion when they're super low and basically like buying another version of the game. There are apps like that where for like $2 you can buy another ship and it's basically like playing a new game. But I really hate the ones that suck you in and want another $5 or whatever just to make the app keep working. And I usually tell him to cough up the money for things he wants. I would rather pay upfront for an expensive app (like Civ 6, which was $30 ON SALE, if you can imagine, $60 full price) rather than getting those stupid in-app ads constantly. Hate those. And Civ 6 was good btw, worth it, great app. If that's what he wants, give it to him.

Fwiw, when I say no to my ds on an app, I help him then go find something BETTER. Like even if it costs money and what he wanted that I couldn't approve was free, I then go buy him an app that costs money that is better. I try to show that I'm not prudish or un-fun or boring but that this is how we live. So sometimes with redirecting I have to up my game. 

Ok, time and safety. You're saying you want to control by having him with you. I don't know, that doesn't work here. I'm not in your house. I let my ds play for longer periods of time. I keep the device off the internet. There are going to be ads and they're going to be telling his little 11 yo brain to want more. It's just discussions to have. My ds doesn't read books (SLDs) but he does listen to audiobooks. I try to make sure his game time doesn't cut into his audiobook time. So like if your standard is reading 1-2 hours a day, you're going to want to have that discussion about what you expect. But just to say oh 15 minutes of games, that sounds unrealistic to me. An 11 yo isn't wanting to play something dinky he walks away from. He's probably wanting something immersive.

Games and addiction. Everybody has their own opinions on this. When I was starting into apps with my ds, Minecraft was huge. Is it much of a thing now? It feeds into their visual/spatial skills and is immersive for whatever reason. I've never let him have it. I just haven't. He has everything else under the sun that is age-appropriate, but he DOESN'T have minecraft. And when I listen to moms groan about their kids being addicted, I think ok this was probably the right choice for us not to do it. People say there's all kinds of value. I'm just saying I drew a line there. I try to prescreen and disallow all apps that are overtly killing (Call of Duty, things where it is overtly killing) and I try to redirect him from apps that are prone to making people compulsive or stuck. My ds has autism, so he's especially prone to getting stuck. We just don't go there. But what apps is your ds wanting? He's probably not wanting Shark Simulator or something, lol. He's probably wanting something immersive that he can play with his friends online. Find out. Look into it and see what the parameters are and how it's really played. I doubt he's wanting Spider Solitaire, hehe. That's what I play. I play little dorky games like a version of Pong, solitaire, etc. That's not what boy that age are wanting. My dd used a few games in high school, but usually it was stuff like raising frogs or goldfish or mahajong, things for relaxation. I'm doubting that's what an 11 yo boy is wanting, but ask. The more immersive and without end points the game is, the more it's going to be harder to break away from it. The app could be FINE according to your standards but hard to transition from. The app developers aren't wanting you to leave their app, lol. They make money when you're on there and online, because they're showing ads. 

What device? You can get an older ipad for $70 these days. I wouldn't buy an 11 yo a kindle probably, because the apps are pretty limited. My ds has been using a kindle fire for years, and he has some good apps. But when you say you want the really good stuff, you're going to have to move over to the apple app store or maybe android, not the kindle fire. Like Cid Meier's Civilization 6. Is that available for android? I don't know. Something like that would be my benchmark. I'm not a fan of android tablets. We have one for our Mightier app. You talk about something you'd be HAPPY for him to use everyday, there you go. Look into Mightier. No, I just googled it, and Civ 6 is not on android. And all that's telling me is that the money is with apple, that the developers, who are having to pay to develop on these platforms, are going with apple. And apple's platform is better anyway. Mightier, when it started on android, had to use tons of separate apps and switch between them. It was crazy and had a lot of lag. I think maybe now they've got it down to one app, like they were able to do right away with apple.

So what some people do is they get an old phone, an old ipod touch, an old ipad, and that's what the kid gets. No cell plan, no or limited access to wifi (password lock it), and clear plans for what he can have access to and when. But yeah, he's probably going to want the device for 30-60 minutes at a time. I wouldn't even offer it if you aren't actually willing to do that. Unless you really think he just wants to play a round of solitaire or something. If he actually wants to play the great apps, he'll want time. I would try to encourage diversity and try to bring the tech into your school time, so he's using it other ways and not just as this immersive visual/spatial, anti-social kind of experience. Teach him to make movies, use Quizlet, etc. I would have clear parameters for what flies in your house for apps and what doesn't. Like don't be deciding in the moment. Think through ahead of time what your *principles* are and teach them and communicate them clearly. And be exceptionally cautious about any apps anywhere that are getting him to go into online play or co-play. People are able to connect back channel and that may or may not be appropriate for him at this time. My ds understands the game play, but he doesn't understand the social dynamics in those situations, meaning he's not safe to do that. 

If you want a totally safe, probably not too objectionable app you can start with for him, try Goat Simulator. It's hilarious, not particularly addictive, not particularly violent (the goat kicks and head butts things), and it works well on a phone. But you're going to need to find out what he was thinking for apps. He probably has some interests he was wanting to pursue, so your ways of handling it will be customized to that.

 

PeterPan--Thank you so much!  You touched on a whole lot of things that I've never even THOUGHT about.  I have a whole lot more thinking to do . . .   

[sea_mommy]

Ds and I have talked and have shelved it for now.  However, I will start researching more so that I can figure out what I'm going to decide on in the future.  Thank you, everyone, for your input/advice/wisdom.  

[PeterPan]

LOL, that happens! Well think about tech. You might like to bring some into your school day, like to make videos or this or that. If you got an ipad, you could use it for pdfs for your curriculum, doing OneNote for organization, that kind of thing, and then just slowly work your way into it. If it's *your* tech and he's borrowing, that's handy. That's easier to work with than unfettered. So I have to ipads, but they're MINE and my ds knows their mine. Then it's a privilege to have access to based on compliance and meeting expectations.

If you want a good way to use tech, you might look into National History Day. They have lots of great categories for projects. My dd did her first around that age and it was a great experience, highly recommend. And now is when you'd be looking into it. You learn how to research, make an annotated bibliography using online bibliography tools (Noodle), make videos or presentation boards or do dramas or other presentations. Good stuff!