Rant and Question for People in non common core states

[NewIma]

I am so so so frustrated! We live in VA which is not a common core state. We have been using MIF 1-5 and LOVE it. MIF is a common core curriculum and they have a middle school curriculum (Course 1-3 which is supposed to be for 6th to 8th grades) which I would like to use, but that would have my dd doing Algebra 1 in 9th grade. Common core integrates math topics in middle school and slows down the sequence a little. I think that is a good thing, but here in VA doing Algebra 1 in 9th grade would put you with the lowest preforming students. College bound students here are doing Algebra 1 in 7th grade and geometry in 8th.  I've talked to local high school math teachers and they say that if I want to keep the possibility open for my child to go to a public high school I need to have them ready for Algebra 2 in 9th grade or else they would be placed in the lowest rung classes in high school with lots of serious behavioral problems. So I feel like I am being forced to push my child because of the standards of our state and am SO frustrated and annoyed. Why do we keep pushing our kids like this??!?!?!?!? 

If you live in a non common core state, what has your experience been? When are people doing Algebra there? Are you following local standards? 

[Sneezyone]

Not true. We are moving to VA and I asked district administrators (curriculum and instruction staff) to evaluate the scope and sequence of DDs current common core-aligned math program and they said it qualified her for their 8th grade Algebra class. Are you planning to send your child to PS? If not, keep doing what you’re doing. If so, have your curric’s Scope and sequence evaluated so a placement determination can be made. Common core Algebra 1 is significantly more challenging than pre-CC.

[Lori D.]

Can't help you with specific VA Math credit questions, but some general info:

School districts set up their own course of study requirements for awarding diplomas, and these will vary widely from district to district. For example, I honestly don't know how closely my state's public schools follow Common Core, but our state's Dept. of Ed. graduation requirements (for public school students, not homeschoolers) include completing a total of 4 Math credits, with 3 being at least Alg. 1, Geom, Alg. 2, and the 4th Math can be either more advanced, or other, as long as it has at a minimum "high school content". My state does not force public school students into one of two diploma tracks (college prep/ or not college) right off the bat in 9th grade the way some states do. In general, in my state, students are doing Alg. 1 in either 8th or 9th grade -- about 1/2 and 1/2. Some advanced students are starting to do Alg. 1 in 7th, but it is not required or expected, and students doing Alg. 1 in 9th are still easily on track for completing enough credits of enough rigor to be "college prep" for the majority of colleges.

However, what the situation is like in my "not-VA" state, really doesn't help you, when you ARE moving to VA and will have to deal with VA public school rules if you will be sending your student to a B&M high school there. ?

As far as a general rule of thumb for Math credits needed to meet college admission requirements: many colleges are similar to the above (4 credits, and at least up through Alg. 2). If going into a STEM field, then the student will need to have gone up through Pre-Calc. If applying to a selective, competitive, or top tier college, then the student will absolutely need Math up through Pre-Calc and beyond.

If you will be homeschooling through high school, your student will be fine for college admissions if you complete a standard college prep set of credits. And even if starting with Alg. 1 in 9th, if needed, a homeschool high school student can accelerate during the high school years in various ways to complete more than 4 credits of higher Maths. ?

Sadly, some states are very rigid about high school -- not just about locking students into a specific "diploma track", but also about whether they will/won't accept credits from students coming from other school districts, or from homeschool. Many homeschoolers find that in their area, the decision to homeschool or do public high school really is "all or nothing" -- there is no starting with homeschooling and being able to enter the local public school partway through.

My guess is that what you were told by the high school math teachers is because University of Virginia is so competitive, the high schools feel they must respond by requiring increased rigor (i.e., higher and higher maths at younger and younger grade levels) to keep the high school's acceptance rates to UofV high.

So sorry you're having to deal with this; it sounds extremely stressful.

[HomeAgain]

That's frustrating!  My nephew is in VA.  He took Algebra 1 in high school, not 8th.  Same with my son's best friend (also in VA).  One's in college in a math heavy program, the other is getting ready to graduate and go to college.

I think some of the people are a little...high strung when it comes to math, but I can tell you that it matters more how much that master it than how much they push through.  A student who gets math and can do well on the ACT or SAT is going to be in good shape.  My own kid did Algebra 1 in 9th (after not getting it as well as he liked in 8th) and finished high school with calculus before going into an engineering major. I wish teachers didn't see a "one track only" option for kids.  It's not giving anyone a fair shake.

[NewIma]

Thanks for your responses!

Sneezyone, what math book did your child use in 7th grade? 

Lori D, Thanks for the reminder to think about college admissions. It seems crazy to me to think kids "should" supposedly do algebra in 7th grade.  I wonder if it is our school district, and not necessarily VA in general that has that approach. You would end up with 7 years of higher math which certainly isn't necessary for college admissions.  We really don't know if we will send our child to public high school or not, but I want to have prepared her for success if she chooses to. I hate this early early push and as you know, the pressure of making the right choices for your kid can be overwhelming!

 

 

[NewIma]

Homeagain, that makes me wonder if it is really our school district that is pushing this 7th grade algebra nonsense. Obviously, some kids are ready then, but I don't think my kid is one of them .

[Lori D.]

1 hour ago, NewIma said:

I hate this early early push and as you know, the pressure of making the right choices for your kid can be overwhelming!

Totally agree, it is nuts. You don't improve falling U.S. educational standards by shoving Algebra 1 into increasingly lower grades -- first 8th, then 7th, and now in some places, in 6th grade. Just because you offer (or require) Algebra in a lower grade doesn't mean you've also magically re-wired children's brains to be able to do/succeed at Algebra  at it in those lower grades. sigh.

[Sneezyone]

7 hours ago, NewIma said:

Thanks for your responses!

Sneezyone, what math book did your child use in 7th grade? 

Lori D, Thanks for the reminder to think about college admissions. It seems crazy to me to think kids "should" supposedly do algebra in 7th grade.  I wonder if it is our school district, and not necessarily VA in general that has that approach. You would end up with 7 years of higher math which certainly isn't necessary for college admissions.  We really don't know if we will send our child to public high school or not, but I want to have prepared her for success if she chooses to. I hate this early early push and as you know, the pressure of making the right choices for your kid can be overwhelming!

 

 

 

Her school uses Engage NY and we supplement at home with Dimensions Math 7 CC which covers roughly half of pre-CC Algebra 1. DD is doing Derek Owens Honors Algebra 1 next year and much of it will be review. CC math 8 is about half geometry and half Algebra 1. CC Algebra 1 is half pre- CC Algebra 2 and 1/2 Geometry. By the end of 10th it’s pretty much the same thing. Every district is different so if it’s possible to have your S&S compared to their course sequence, do that. Ideally, not at the beginning or end of the school year.

[Sneezyone]

7 hours ago, NewIma said:

Homeagain, that makes me wonder if it is really our school district that is pushing this 7th grade algebra nonsense. Obviously, some kids are ready then, but I don't think my kid is one of them .

 

FTR- half the kids in DDs class are struggling with the material. They were/are not ready for Algebra. DD is one of a handful, literally less than five, that is having no trouble at all. My intention is to have DD sit for their (VA) EOC Algebra test when we get there and move on to Geometry. The nice thing about DO math is that I can have DD do the HW and test out of the content she already knows so we’ll probably finish it by Dec. which is when she’ll switch over.

[SoCal_Bear]

In CA, there is a mix of traditional sequence and integrated math sequence depending on the school and/or district. The high school local to me acutally offers both sequences for math. It's a top ranked high school with loads of APs and a IB program on a trimester system. 

[Lori D.]

7 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

 

FTR- half the kids in DDs class are struggling with the material. They were/are not ready for Algebra...

Ug. So sorry to hear that.

This is absolutely what I keep seeing over and over the moment Algebra becomes the new standard for 7th grade. There is such a disconnect here between what colleges are saying (students are remedial and not at college level in Math OR Writing), and how public schools are addressing the issue (teach to the test and shove into younger grades the higher Maths and larger amounts of Writing, both of which need levels of critical thinking that doesn't develop until ages 12-14, into younger grades). 

[Sneezyone]

2 hours ago, texasmom33 said:

I'm in TX and I know the district over from us does the Algebra I in 7th for the GT track and it's been a disaster. They shifted to that in 2014 I think, and most of my friends there who had kids on GT track had to drop out of it by high school into regular math, (not PAP or AP). Previous to that GT had done Algebra I in 8th grade. They are not solid at ALL and it made me glad I listened to the parents on the high school board here who told me that it's the foundation that matters, not the pace. That's what let me ignore the public school track. 

I'm not sure the reasoning behind the realignment,  but it's not just your district. We're not common core as well, although I've found that to be a misnomer because it's the same textbooks and textbook publishers. A rose by any other name.......sort of thing, but more sinister. 

If I were you I'd plug along with what works for now, even if it doesn't line up. 

 

This is why I was (mostly) OK with DD doing 7th grade CC math. There is a cohort of 10>kids that they pushed up to 8th grade CC math anyway and, yeah, most of them lacked the requisite foundation and they are REALLY moving slowly, essentially getting through 2nd semester pre-CC Alg.1 content only. What's the point of that?

In VA, a t least in the region we're moving to, students only take 4 classes per semester. Each class meets everyday for 90 minutes and is equivalent to one year. So, if a student is strong in math they could EASILY catch up and re-join the 'advanced' students in a year's time. You might have to give up an elective but that's not a big deal. Besides that, by Algebra2 most kids w/o a strong foundation (or who pose disciplinary problems) have tapped out.

[SanDiegoMom]

On 5/14/2018 at 5:51 PM, NewIma said:

I am so so so frustrated! We live in VA which is not a common core state. We have been using MIF 1-5 and LOVE it. MIF is a common core curriculum and they have a middle school curriculum (Course 1-3 which is supposed to be for 6th to 8th grades) which I would like to use, but that would have my dd doing Algebra 1 in 9th grade. Common core integrates math topics in middle school and slows down the sequence a little. I think that is a good thing, but here in VA doing Algebra 1 in 9th grade would put you with the lowest preforming students. College bound students here are doing Algebra 1 in 7th grade and geometry in 8th.  I've talked to local high school math teachers and they say that if I want to keep the possibility open for my child to go to a public high school I need to have them ready for Algebra 2 in 9th grade or else they would be placed in the lowest rung classes in high school with lots of serious behavioral problems. So I feel like I am being forced to push my child because of the standards of our state and am SO frustrated and annoyed. Why do we keep pushing our kids like this??!?!?!?!? 

If you live in a non common core state, what has your experience been? When are people doing Algebra there? Are you following local standards? 

 

We've lived in multiple states and Algebra in seventh is considered double accelerated and Alg in eighth accelerated. Now I will clarify that and say that most of my dd's top performing peers did finish high school with calculus. My dd caught up since her freshman year her school did the four by four schedule and she took geometry and Alg 2 that year.