MUS long division

[KeriJ]

Sigh.  After much deliberation, I switched my 4th grader from CLE to MUS.  He was overwhelmed by the sheer number of problems in CLE and by the constant switching of topics.  We started MUS Delta around Christmas, and it has been great!  He loves it.  He loves Mr. Steve.  He loves the length and focus of the lessons.  For the first time he isn't complaining about math.

But then we started the long division lessons.  Somewhere I missed the fact that MUS teaches it in a completely different way than anything else we have used. He had already learned the beginning of long division, and is confused by Steve's method. I've tried to wrap my brain around it, and I'm sure I'll get it eventually, but I don't want to have to learn a new way.  That defeats the purpose of math going more smoothly around here!  I also don't want to switch programs again.

I guess I'm considering just taking the long division lessons and teaching them myself the way I know how.  I'm just sad that I didn't realize this before.  I would love nothing more than to switch back to CLE, but he would truly shut down if I did.  Plus, now we'd be behind.  But I'm having doubts about our switch. 

I never wanted to be one who jumped around to different math programs.  But I have the hardest time finding the one that goes well for this guy.

[nixpix5]

Sometimes we know our kids how they learn and we need to bend the curriculum to our uses and not be lead by the curriculum. I am a completionist and like all boxes checked so it is hard for me to stray away from and back to sometimes. Yet, you don't want him to build a block to long division and see it as confusing and hard out of the gate. I would teach long division the way that works best and then maybe step back to it after he is solid and make it a "challenge" to try and understand Steve ' s way. He takes a Montessori type approach. There is a long division Montessori board with beads that makes a little more sense. 

If it makes you feel any better, my shelves look like a math store blew up in my house. I have so many different curriculums and manipulatives so I can toggle between them when I need to. I have one son who needs some concepts a bunch of different ways. This year alone we have used parts of MUS, Saxon, Singapore, Beast and Right Start to meet his needs. I just make sure I have a master scope and sequence I am following and feel good we are getting everything done :)

[KeriJ]

1 hour ago, nixpix5 said:

Sometimes we know our kids how they learn and we need to bend the curriculum to our uses and not be lead by the curriculum. I am a completionist and like all boxes checked so it is hard for me to stray away from and back to sometimes. Yet, you don't want him to build a block to long division and see it as confusing and hard out of the gate. I would teach long division the way that works best and then maybe step back to it after he is solid and make it a "challenge" to try and understand Steve ' s way. He takes a Montessori type approach. There is a long division Montessori board with beads that makes a little more sense. 

If it makes you feel any better, my shelves look like a math store blew up in my house. I have so many different curriculums and manipulatives so I can toggle between them when I need to. I have one son who needs some concepts a bunch of different ways. This year alone we have used parts of MUS, Saxon, Singapore, Beast and Right Start to meet his needs. I just make sure I have a master scope and sequence I am following and feel good we are getting everything done :)

Thank you.  That's helpful.

I think I'm mostly trying to decide if I want to try to learn the MUS way or stick with MUS and teach him the way I know. 

[Holly]

We just switched from MUS to CLE last January!     We used MUS for several years.  What you are describing is one reason why we switched.  I felt like some things when so slowly (long division & dividing fractions).  He has an extremely incremental system.  Sometimes it was painfully slow.  It was great for my struggling DD, but so is the constant review of CLE. 

I finally gave in halfway through dividing fractions and told her just to flip & multiply.  He spent several weeks with a long drawn out method before teaching the standard method.  I get that he wanted to make sure they understood the "why", but my DD was already behind where she should have been.  I just wanted her to know how to do them at that point. 

When we did division, I had to cut the problems way down for one of my kids.  She often did only 1-2 problems in a day!

[KeriJ]

11 hours ago, Holly said:

We just switched from MUS to CLE last January!     We used MUS for several years.  What you are describing is one reason why we switched.  I felt like some things when so slowly (long division & dividing fractions).  He has an extremely incremental system.  Sometimes it was painfully slow.  It was great for my struggling DD, but so is the constant review of CLE. 

I finally gave in halfway through dividing fractions and told her just to flip & multiply.  He spent several weeks with a long drawn out method before teaching the standard method.  I get that he wanted to make sure they understood the "why", but my DD was already behind where she should have been.  I just wanted her to know how to do them at that point. 

When we did division, I had to cut the problems way down for one of my kids.  She often did only 1-2 problems in a day!

Holly, how did your dd adjust to the length of lessons in CLE?  It seems like a huge jump to me, based on our experience.  And switching during Epsilon (I'm assuming), did it set you back in CLE?  There is just such a difference in scope and sequence between the two. 

I really want to go back to CLE.  It's how I think, so it would make it easier on me as the teacher.  But I'm worried I'll just complicate things more.

[Holly]

They did okay with the lesson length.  There was a bit of complaining at first but not much.  I think the variety of problems really helped keep it interesting for them.  We broke up some of the earlier lessons to make things easier for my older ones.  We still sometimes break the lessons up if they take too long. 

I did place them a bit behind, but we do year-round math, so I'm not too concerned.  I used the first light unit to teach a few concepts that we hadn't covered.  One of my kids had done most of Zeta, so it wasn't too bad.  I put her in CLE 700.  My other had only done half of Epsilon, but he's very math-y and had no trouble learning decimals and mult/div of fractions very quickly.  In fact, he'd done quite a bit with decimals on his own through computer programming!  I put him in CLE 600, but he probably would have been fine with 700--there seems to be lots of overlap between their lessons.  The first light unit was a lot of struggle with teaching new concepts and adjusting to the workbooks, but the 2nd & 3rd ones went fine.  Part of the struggle was the strange format of the 101 light unit!

Both programs have their pros & cons for sure!  I love how MUS teaches with the blocks, but I love the constant review of CLE and all the extra concepts they cover.  MUS often seemed too focused on their focus topic.  My younger ones struggled with telling time, fractions, and money as we hadn't covered it very much in MUS's books.  Most of the geometry was unfamiliar.

[Clear Creek]

MUS teaches long division in a way that gets it across to struggling math students. It is long and laborious, but it really helps the student understand what is being done so they get the reason for the steps. If your child already understands long division and doesn't need this method, then by all means go ahead and use the traditional method. The student is only expected to use this method until they get the "why" behind the traditional method, and then they can just do it traditionally. You don't need to drop a program that is working just because one of the explanations isn't needed.

[Knock]

Clear Creek's post is great, and I hope you consider it while you decide what to do next!

I am a long time MUS user, with multiple students. Two are majoring in engineering and have a high proclivity for maths. I made them do things the MUS way before someone like Clear Creek clued me in to the curriculum (any curriculum, really) being a TOOL for me to use in a way best suited to my task (i.e., student). For subsequent children, I still made sure they were taught the MUS way but if they had an easier time doing something the standard, traditional way? I allowed it. I just needed some show that they really understood how the problem was solved, and then they were free to use any methodology they preferred. 

MUS did prepare my older students very well, but they forever thought they hated math. They definitely didn't like MUS. When they see a younger sibling doing expanded notation, they have bad flashbacks. But since changing my approach to using MUS, the others have healthier attitudes about maths. Surprise, surprise LOL!  

[nena3927]

I am in this exact same boat with my children as well. We've used MUS for 3 years and I have children in Delta, Gamma, and Alpha. My son in Delta is struggling with long division. It took me watching the video twice before even I understood Mr. Demme's way and I've always excelled in math. Of course I was taught the traditional way, so I have had to learn his methods alongside my children. The problem I've had with my son, is that he got bogged down in muti digit multiplication in Gamma and we had to stay on that topic an extra month before being able to move on. Now here we are with the same issue in Delta and having to stop. There is no way to move on ahead bc of how incremental MUS is and we just keep falling further behind. I also have had to teach long division and multiplication the traditional way I learned bc Mr. Demme's way confused my children and they much preferred learning the traditional way.

I feel like with a program like CLE it is ok if they do not get something the first time around and you can keep moving bc it will come up OVER and OVER again. It may be as they mature they are able to finally comprehend the skill later on and in their time without having to stall and sit on the same concept for a month. I have been debating switching all the kids over to CLE for awhile but have been hesitant bc my older two will probably have to start 2 grade levels behind due to the difference in  scope and sequence. I am also worried about the sheer number of pages CLE requires. So I guess I just wanted you to know that we are having the same issues and your not alone in feeling the way you do!

[KeriJ]

Just wanted to update that we did indeed switch back to CLE. It's going well, and I am glad we switched back.