From CLE to Math Mammoth?

[mamakelly]

My dd will be 4th grade in a few weeks. He has a very "mathy" mind and picks up concepts quickly. He's been doing CLE math for 2 years and it's really starting to bog us down. I initially liked the constant review, but he's bored and complains that it's too much. I was thinking of switching to Math Mammoth, and a mastery approach. How do you keep up older skills with programs like Math Mammoth? Anyone switch from CLE before?

[OneStepAtATime]

Why not try it out?  

 

Have  you tried cutting out a lot of the review in CLE?  Adapt it.  The program has so much review it is easy to cut out review and still have older concepts reviewed enough to retain the material.  We did that in areas the kids were strong and ran Beast Academy on the side.  Paired really well.  MM is a great program but it did not work for us at all, FWIW.  

 

If you want to try MM, maybe create a 5 problem review on a dry erase board that is done daily to review previous concepts?

[wendyroo]

This is what Maria Miller has to say about review in MM.

 

I do add a bit of extra review for fact practice and to nail down the more complex procedures (subtraction with regrouping, multi-digit multiplication, long division).  I tend to use pages from a couple Scholastic ebooks that I bought during dollar days...math puzzles, riddles, mazes, picture graphing, etc that tie into the skills the kids have recently learned.  

 

When we are going through a computation heavy chapter in MM, then I supplement with "lighter" Balance Benders, logic puzzles, Tin Man Press thinking games, etc.  Then, once we move into a "lighter" MM chapter on time, money, geometry, charts and graphs, etc. then I supplement with worksheets that require the kids to practice "heavier" computation skills.

 

Wendy

[alisoncooks]

We switched from CLE to MM. We loved CLE and the constant review, but the lessons were just page after page after page...

(Also, I was feeling doubtful about the word problems in CLE, or lack of challenge with them.)

 

To be honest, we've used MM for a year and a half...and we are hitting that same wall (bogged down). In fact, I think I started a thread about it in the spring. :p While pacing for MM is approx. 2-3 pages a day, sometimes they are just full of meaty, challenging work. So, for us, even though the lessons appear shorter, they take up just as much mind space (does that make sense).

 

My youngest is still using MM (oldest will be switching) and we review by using lots of card games and doing a page each morning from a workbook called Math Minutes. Sometimes, especially if a unit feels never-ending (I'm looking at you, long division), I'll alternate in some pages from a time/money/measurement chapter.

[Syllieann]

I run the special chapters, such as geometry or measuring alongside the arithmetic chapters. So, for example, we might be doing one page of multi digit multiplication and one page of work with angles. This gives those special topics a longer time to sink in and it gives a little breather from the tedious stuff. I use all the mixed review and cumulative review that comes with the PDF files. I try to do the cumulative review a few days after the test. Doing this, we have never really had a problem with forgetting previous concepts.

 

Fwiw, I don't think there is a big difference in workload between the programs. If he's bored because it's too easy, then maybe accelerate or try beast academy. If it's really too easy though, by which I mean he has reached automaticity with all the practice problems, then he should be flying through those lessons in no time.

[mamakelly]

Hmmmm. I think he's bored because it comes to so easy to him. But he isn't flying through the CLE lessons because he hates doing so much work. That's a good idea to be working on more than one chapter at a time. I may try that. 

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Hmmmm. I think he's bored because it comes to so easy to him. But he isn't flying through the CLE lessons because he hates doing so much work. That's a good idea to be working on more than one chapter at a time. I may try that. 

If you think he needs built in review but CLE seems to have too much, cut more out and maybe move faster through new material.  You might try this:  I would go through the new material for two lessons of CLE together then have him do the rest of the new lesson on his own.  Cross out a lot of the unnecessary review of older material, mainly focusing on areas he is struggling or still needs more practice on.  Ignore the rest.  It will come up again and can be reviewed later.  Only do select review from the second lesson or a combination of lesson 1 and 2.  Do that Monday for lesson 1 and 2, then maybe do Beast Academy or something else with a lot of really different meaty math on Tuesday, then do CLE lessons 3 & 4 new material with just select review problems from lesson 4 or a smattering from both.  On Friday again do something like Beast Academy.

 

That seems like a lot of logistical work but I have seen it work well and we definitely did better cutting out some review and incorporating Beast.  

 

MM ended up being a long slog for us (much as I love the program).

[mrsduenes06]

If you think he needs built in review but CLE seems to have too much, cut more out and maybe move faster through new material.  You might try this:  I would go through the new material for two lessons of CLE together then have him do the rest of the new lesson on his own.  Cross out a lot of the unnecessary review of older material, mainly focusing on areas he is struggling or still needs more practice on.  Ignore the rest.  It will come up again and can be reviewed later.  Only do select review from the second lesson or a combination of lesson 1 and 2.  Do that Monday for lesson 1 and 2, then maybe do Beast Academy or something else with a lot of really different meaty math on Tuesday, then do CLE lessons 3 & 4 new material with just select review problems from lesson 4 or a smattering from both.  On Friday again do something like Beast Academy.

 

That seems like a lot of logistical work but I have seen it work well and we definitely did better cutting out some review and incorporating Beast.  

 

MM ended up being a long slog for us (much as I love the program).

The last part (MM being a slog) was also true for us coming from CLE. MM just felt like it was too much, in too many different ways, and in a very small font/cluttered layout.

 

I didn't leave CLE for the same reasons you did, but more because I wanted better training in problem solving. Some kids seem to like MM much better when they switch, but for one of my kids it was a total disaster. I tried blending MM and Beast Academy and while they were both challenging and had interesting problems, there was almost too much of a challenge in applying everything and not enough review. 

 

What I would say is, you can try a summer break book from Math Mammoth and get it as a digital download. Find your son's grade level and try it out with him to see how it works for him. My older son, after switching, ended up staying with MM but he doesn't love it the way he did CLE, and where he used to feel confident in math he now considers himself not that good at it which is really sad. I may put him back in CLE for grades 7 and 8 because I like their format in explaining the problems so much better. 

[mrsduenes06]

Also, if your son thinks that CLE has too many problems, he will probably think the same of MM - I have found that they have triple the problems of CLE in certain situations. My son had one page where he was supposed to crack two riddle codes and there were about 30 long division problems (with multiple digits) just to find two answers. It was ridiculous.

[sbgrace]

Math Mammoth will be long--with mostly similar or identical types of problems. CLE felt like a breath of fresh air after that because of the variety. But it's relatively inexpensive to try to see if it works. It will have more challenge if that might make it all better. I think CLE benefits from, really needs, supplement in word problems, and that can/should up the challenge level too. I like Singapore FAN Math and Process Skills alongside CLE for that reason. 

 

But if your son might do better with a mastery program and more challenge, I might consider something like Singapore or Math in Focus? Is Beast standalone? That wasn't available when my kids were young. It might be a great option. 

[mamamoose]

Beast is a lot like math mammoth in that the units are long and there isn't review, per se, and the units get long and tedious. I'm still looking for the perfect math program. Sigh