s/o - redshirting

[luuknam]

Probation yes, but where does it say if the student doesn't make one full year of progress?  And what exactly does that look like?

 

 

I guess I must've read a wrong summary or remembered wrong or something (or they changed stuff). Apparently, on probation your kid needs to meet at least 75% of the remediation objectives per semester, and 100% of the remediation objectives within 2 years (w/e that means).  

 

http://www.nyhen.org/regs.htm

 

Section h 1 v a&b, and section i.

 

One full year of progress I would assume to mean where on the test it says overall score - grade equivalent, and then basically a number that's at least 1 higher than on last year's test. Obviously, since you don't *have* to test every year, you might not be able to use that metric of adequate progress if you don't test every year (which is a reason why you might want to test every year even though you don't have to, though it's only an issue if your kid scores low on those tests - iirc Broccoli made less than one full year of progress this past year (iirc he made 8 months of progress), even though his overall percentile score went up from 81st in 1st grade to 91st in 2nd grade... his math GE dropped from 4.3 to 3.3 and dragged the overall thing down (even though he definitely knows more math than a year ago... it's just not accurate at the top of the range... which isn't an issue since he's obviously >33rd percentile)). I'm not a fan of GEs for many reasons, but I can't imagine what else NY could be talking about. 

 

I guess having your kid make one full year of progress is the easiest way to get out of the probation situation. 

[snowbeltmom]

Well...let's see.  17.7% of the students in my district were deemed proficient in 2016.  And that was supposedly some sort of improvement.  It has been this crappy for the past 10 years here.  No school was ever threatened to be shut down.  So gee how much worse could they do?  I don't think schools get shut down simply for low performance even if they claim that is what can be done. 

The schools aren't shut down.  The state just comes in and takes control.

[luuknam]

I found this regarding probation.  It is so incredibly vague and wide open for interpretation.  Either way it really does not say anything about obtaining a specific score or percentage increase.  And even when it's not working out that is still not automatic grounds for not being allowed to homeschool.  They'll start showing up to your house first.  It's not that easy to lose your right to homeschool, in other words.  Not that anyone would want to invite that kind of fun into their life. 

 

 

I guess I typed the above while you posted this. I never said it was automatic grounds for losing the right to homeschool. I just said that depending on whether the district wants to play hardball, probation and then losing the right to homeschool *is* possible (for some reason I thought probation was a 1 year thing... but apparently it's up to 2 years). It's still my understanding that making adequate progress (either >33rd percentile OR one full year of progress on a standardized test, i.e. on the overall GE, I'd think) is the easiest way to prove you don't need to be on probation anymore. 

[luuknam]

The schools aren't shut down.  The state just comes in and takes control.

 

 

At which point they're free to perform as terrible as ever or worse. Though I think in some places that gives parents the right to request that their kid goes to another school, so that's good, in a way. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I guess I typed the above while you posted this. I never said it was automatic grounds for losing the right to homeschool. I just said that depending on whether the district wants to play hardball, probation and then losing the right to homeschool *is* possible (for some reason I thought probation was a 1 year thing... but apparently it's up to 2 years). It's still my understanding that making adequate progress (either >33rd percentile OR one full year of progress on a standardized test, i.e. on the overall GE, I'd think) is the easiest way to prove you don't need to be on probation anymore. 

 

What is GE?

 

Nobody has yet been able to explain to me what one full year of progress is exactly.  Then again I haven't met a single person who was in this situation either.

[SparklyUnicorn]

At which point they're free to perform as terrible as ever or worse. Though I think in some places that gives parents the right to request that their kid goes to another school, so that's good, in a way. 

 

Yeah that's a joke though because if there are no other schools in the district then what?  I have never heard of them offering to pay to send a kid out of the district. 

 

The schools where I am are THAT bad.  A lot of the threats don't mean a whole lot though.  Yes, they do try to take action, but you can't just close down entire schools and tell the city to deal with it. 

[luuknam]

What is GE?

 

Nobody has yet been able to explain to me what one full year of progress is exactly.  Then again I haven't met a single person who was in this situation either.

 

 

Grade Equivalent. For example, on this sample score report, look at the line that says Total Score, and then the column that says GE, and you should see the number 11.5. Now, this is an example for why I think GE is mostly meaningless, since this sample report is for a 4th grade test and the GE is 11.5, meaning the 5th month of 11th grade, but, this report is also nowhere near being <33rd percentile. So, suppose this report had a percentile score of 10th percentile, and a GE of, I dunno, 2.0, then if on the 5th grade test the kid still scored 10th percentile and a GE of 3.0, that'd be exactly one year of progress, meaning the student made adequate progress according to NYS law, despite not being >33rd percentile (obviously I made up this imaginary student's percentile rank and GEs, since I have no clue what GE equates to 10th percentile for a 4th grader or w/e).

 

http://www.setontesting.com/pdf/CAT6SampleResults.pdf

 

Please note that I'm not a lawyer nor have I ever scored <33rd percentile, so I don't know for a *fact* that this is what NY means, but I can't imagine what else they could possibly mean by one full year of progress on a standardized test. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by luuknam

[luuknam]

Yeah that's a joke though because if there are no other schools in the district then what?  I have never heard of them offering to pay to send a kid out of the district. 

 

The schools where I am are THAT bad.  A lot of the threats don't mean a whole lot though.  Yes, they do try to take action, but you can't just close down entire schools and tell the city to deal with it. 

 

 

I think that in some places (i.e. possibly states other than NY) parents can make failing schools pay for out of district or private schools... but, I'm not sure. I also think the school district does not have to provide bussing for that though. Maybe somebody else can talk about this... I've never had my kids in a failing school (all 4 schools have been ranked above average, iirc). 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Grade Equivalent. For example, on this sample score report, look at the line that says Total Score, and then the column that says GE, and you should see the number 11.5. Now, this is an example for why I think GE is mostly meaningless, since this sample report is for a 4th grade test and the GE is 11.5, meaning the 5th month of 11th grade, but, this report is also nowhere near being <33rd percentile. So, suppose this report had a percentile score of 10th percentile, and a GE of, I dunno, 2.0, then if on the 5th grade test the kid still scored 10th percentile and a GE of 3.0, that'd be exactly one year of progress, meaning the student made adequate progress according to NYS law, despite not being >33rd percentile (obviously I made up this imaginary students percentile rank and GEs, since I have no clue what GE equates to 10th percentile for a 4th grader or w/e).

 

http://www.setontesting.com/pdf/CAT6SampleResults.pdf

 

Please note that I'm not a lawyer nor have I ever scored <33rd percentile, so I don't know for a *fact* that this is what NY means, but I can't imagine what else they could possibly mean by one full year of progress on a standardized test. 

 

Yeah I'm glad I didn't have this issue!  I don't think the tests are particularly difficult, but I can fathom a number of situations where testing might be problematic for a student and it had nothing to do with lousy homeschooling. 

 

And I don't assume a district is out to be nasty.  I think many would work with you.  My district is quite arbitrary in their adherence to the regs and yet at no point were they completely unreasonable towards me.  This past year they wouldn't let me do the annual assessment myself, but allowed for peer review.  And that amounted to having a fellow homeschooler sign off on my assessment.  Kind of a joke, but whatever.  It was just annoying that they allowed me to do them myself for the past 10 years. 

[Arcadia]

At which point they're free to perform as terrible as ever or worse. Though I think in some places that gives parents the right to request that their kid goes to another school, so that's good, in a way.

It is still subject to availability and most schools locally are already overcrowded. My oldest managed to get into a better school in the district for 2nd grade when he was assigned a failing school but there was no vacancies for my younger boy for kindergarten. For transferring in the same district, we use the Performance Improvement Act.

 

"The law, which has been in effect since 2010, is known as the Open Enrollment Act or the “Romero Act.†It allows K-12 students who attend one of the state’s designated 1,000 lowest-performing schools to opt out or transfer to a higher-performing school of their choice, no matter where they live, as long as there is space." http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/06/18/students-can-opt-out-of-low-performing-schools-using-little-known-law/

[luuknam]

Yeah I'm glad I didn't have this issue!  I don't think the tests are particularly difficult, but I can fathom a number of situations where testing might be problematic for a student and it had nothing to do with lousy homeschooling. 

 

And I don't assume a district is out to be nasty.  I think many would work with you.  My district is quite arbitrary in their adherence to the regs and yet at no point were they completely unreasonable towards me.  This past year they wouldn't let me do the annual assessment myself, but allowed for peer review.  And that amounted to having a fellow homeschooler sign off on my assessment.  Kind of a joke, but whatever.  It was just annoying that they allowed me to do them myself for the past 10 years. 

 

 

I agree, and I agree. While I suspect there are probably a few districts in existence that want to be nasty to homeschoolers (just because of the way humans are), I don't know of any... the ones I know of vary in how they implement the regs, but I haven't heard of any being unreasonable.