Spin Off: Music Theory

[Closeacademy]

dd has taken violin lessons for about 4 years now with a group and for the past year with a private teacher as well. She's at the 8/9th grade level and is expressing interest in possibly going to music school (she really wants to be an artist though but loves music too).

 

She hasn't really done any music theory. I've asked about it a bit but not really gotten a response from either teacher. She reads music rather well and took to it more quickly than actual reading.

 

Is this something she should be studying? Where should we start? Also looking at music history ideas.

 

Thanks.

[Angie in VA]

We are blessed to have a local student orchestra/band co-op (for lack of a better word) in our area where they teach many levels of music theory - all the way up to AP. 

 

We threw our dd sink-or-swim into the AP course w/o any prior theory classes, and only after 2 years of private violin lessons, and zero piano skills which help w/ theory). She swam and went on to excel in theory in college as a music ed major.

 

I hope some folks on here offer advice. I know we have several musicians here. 

 

Remember, music is a wonderful thing, and it's great to study music theory to improve as a player, but what really counts is knowing enough music theory to get this joke:

 

THREE NOTES GO INTO A BAR
C,E-flat and G go into a bar.
The bartender says, "Sorry, but we don't serve minors"
So E-Flat leaves and C and G have as open 5th between them.

After a few drinks the 5th is diminished and the G is out flat. An F comes in and tries to augment the situation but is not sharp enough. A D comes into the bar and heads straight for the bathroom saying,*Excuse me, I'll just be a second"

An A comes into the bar but the bartender is not convinced this realtive of C is not a minor. Then the bartender notices a B-Flat hiding at the end of the bar and excalims, "Get out now! You're the seventh minor I've found in the bar tonight." The E-Flat is not easily deflated, comes back to the bar the next night in a 3-piece suit with nicely shined shoes. The bartender who used to have a nice coporate job until his company downsized, says, "You're looking sharp tonight, come on in! This could be a major development." This proves to be the case as the E-Flat takes off the suit and everything else and stands there au natural.

Eventually C sobers up and realizes in horror he is under a rest. The C is brought to trial, found guilty of contributing to the diminution of a minor, and is sentenced to 10 years of DS without Coda at an upscale correctional facility. On appeal, however, the C is found innocent of any wrong doing, even accidental, and that all accusations to the contrary are bassless.

 

 

Edited May 3, 2017 by Angie in VA

[bibiche]

Is this something she should be studying? Where should we start? Also looking at music history ideas.

 

Alfred's Essentials of Music Theory and A History of Western Music.

[zaichiki]

Alfred's Essentials of Music Theory and A History of Western Music.

We used that Alfred's as an introduction to music theory for dd before she started at her current music school.  At the time she was 10 and had had no formal music theory instruction at all, save what she picked up from 7 years of Suzuki viola lessons/group class/orchestra/chamber music. So here's my heads-up: we completed the whole book together and I thought she really knew the stuff, but when she took the theory placement test at her music school, she tested into the "Foundations" level ( pre-level 1). So, now I wonder if there may be a whole lot that this book leaves out.  Or perhaps it's not a very good place to start?  YMMV, of course, as always.

 

Edited to add: I was totally FINE with her placement, BTW, as she was really a newbie to theory, BUT I thought sharing the experience might be useful for someone who is looking for a resource that would give a solid foundation.  I don't think this book delivered that (at least not for us). In her fourth year of music theory instruction, dd is now at level 3 and doing very well, so the issue was not her ability to understand etc.

Edited May 3, 2017 by zaichiki

[backroadsmom]

Serious musicians must have music theory, but not all music teachers will tell you this because quite a few don't have much themselves.  Not to knock Suzuki, because there is a place for it, but not all Suzuki teachers are of the classically trained mindset.  But serious, classically trained, aspiring to music school, must.  I know because my daughter is classically trained under two professionals.  One teacher is European trained, toured the U.S. twice with a famous orchestra, decades of experience, etc.  He preaches theory.  To get to the highest level, it is a must in order to really understand the music and how it should be played.  Her other teacher also has decades of experience, a professor at a major university and also toured the U.S. with a famous, at the time, chamber group.  He talks about students who lost scholarships because they flunk college Theory.  

 

If the teachers don't respond when you mention Theory, I'd start asking around about who is a good teacher.  A place to start is to call or visit the office of a local symphony and find out who they recommend.  Now, not everyone in a local symphony knows this subject in depth, so it's probably good to find a professor who also gives music lessons.  He or she can at least start integrating basic theory into the lessons.  

 

Boston University's Berklee School of Music offers online music theory classes, college credit.  My 15 year old daughter did two this year.  The first one started out easy, she thought.  Then it really jumped difficulty.  Same with the second one.  But it was worth it in her case.  

[MamaSprout]

Well trained mind academy has a class.

[Closeacademy]

Serious musicians must have music theory, but not all music teachers will tell you this because quite a few don't have much themselves.  Not to knock Suzuki, because there is a place for it, but not all Suzuki teachers are of the classically trained mindset.  But serious, classically trained, aspiring to music school, must.  I know because my daughter is classically trained under two professionals.  One teacher is European trained, toured the U.S. twice with a famous orchestra, decades of experience, etc.  He preaches theory.  To get to the highest level, it is a must in order to really understand the music and how it should be played.  Her other teacher also has decades of experience, a professor at a major university and also toured the U.S. with a famous, at the time, chamber group.  He talks about students who lost scholarships because they flunk college Theory.  

 

If the teachers don't respond when you mention Theory, I'd start asking around about who is a good teacher.  A place to start is to call or visit the office of a local symphony and find out who they recommend.  Now, not everyone in a local symphony knows this subject in depth, so it's probably good to find a professor who also gives music lessons.  He or she can at least start integrating basic theory into the lessons.  

 

Boston University's Berklee School of Music offers online music theory classes, college credit.  My 15 year old daughter did two this year.  The first one started out easy, she thought.  Then it really jumped difficulty.  Same with the second one.  But it was worth it in her case.  

 

Her current private teacher is leaving so we're thinking of finding a different teacher anyway. The group teacher also does the children's symphony in town but most of the symphony musicians are Doctoral students from IU from what I've heard.  In the group there are a lot of younger, silly and not very serious students so the teacher hasn't done theory with them and they mostly just play lots of fun songs (a lot of theme songs). My daughter wants to do more classical music and the private teacher has been using Suzuki for that but again she's leaving.

 

I'll get a list of teachers. I know that there are a couple in town that run serious lessons but I just don't know how to contact them. And really, I wasn't too worried about it until she started talking about music school in the last few months. But I figure we have up to 4 years to prepare.

 

Thanks.

[backroadsmom]

Her current private teacher is leaving so we're thinking of finding a different teacher anyway. The group teacher also does the children's symphony in town but most of the symphony musicians are Doctoral students from IU from what I've heard.  In the group there are a lot of younger, silly and not very serious students so the teacher hasn't done theory with them and they mostly just play lots of fun songs (a lot of theme songs). My daughter wants to do more classical music and the private teacher has been using Suzuki for that but again she's leaving.

 

I'll get a list of teachers. I know that there are a couple in town that run serious lessons but I just don't know how to contact them. And really, I wasn't too worried about it until she started talking about music school in the last few months. But I figure we have up to 4 years to prepare.

 

Thanks.

 

Yes, it is something that is not such a big deal if the child doesn't want to go to music school.  There is nothing wrong with just simply learning to play music.  Some people play by ear without ever learning all the technical, and sound good doing it.  Music school and classical music is such a different world though.  Even there, I am always hearing critiques of players who haven't learned proper technique, theory, etc.  The best symphony players have all this and the ones that the best like to grumble about are weak in it.  Usually the weaker ones don't ever make it beyond a small, local symphony.  BUT, there ARE quite a few strong players in small, local symphonies. Emphasis because I don't want to be accused of saying these players are less, because small symphonies are great things.  We need more.

 

If your daughter could go to a really good summer intensive, non Suzuki, challenging, it might help her see if this is something she really wants to do.  My daughter seems to think she will pursue a music career, and, if so, will be pursuing a double major because it is such a competitive field.  She has lately gone from 1 1/2 2 hours a day practicing to 3-4 hours, which is killer.  On the couple of hours a day, she has quickly gone to a college level under good instruction, but now to get beyond that takes a lot because it is perfecting technique.  

 

At 8th grade, it is young for your child to be deciding.  On the other hand, it can take so much work to get up to a college level of playing, so may as well be prepared. Good luck!

Edited May 3, 2017 by backroadsmom

[Closeacademy]

She's technically 9th grade but a bit immature for her age so we're doing a 5 year plan for high school if needed. I'd rather give her more time than rush and miss the important stuff.

 

I think they have some good summer intensive nearby but I don't know that she would be ready for it this year, maybe next year. Thanks