s/o 8th grade planning... looking ahead to high school

[lisabees]

Your frustration regarding the college process is very common, especially when preparing to send that first one off.

 

But...don't be disheartened. Getting into college is a game that you can win. There are plenty of fabulous colleges, some of which are test optional. Remember, find the place that is right for your kid. I am sure there are many!

 

On the other hand, the skills needed to study for the SAT and the skills needed to take a test and write a well crafted essay are skills needed to be successful in college. Practicing them will not be done in vain.

 

Also - your boys have a lot of maturing and evolving to do in the next few years. You will be astounded!

[wapiti]

Thinking about needing to start prepping SAT scores in middle school makes me want to shout obscenities. 

 

I don't think you need to start prepping using actual test materials until some point during high school.  How much prep will be needed to maximize a potential score will presumably vary by child.  The PSAT (has an 8/9 and 10 as well as the real thing) might give some sort of baseline, a likely low-end score, though it seems to me that it can't predict the higher end of a student's potential score range if the student has not done any prep.

 

Not all kids will improve substantially with tons of prep, but some will.  This is also where I'd go off intuition about your student's intellectual ability vs whether tests accurately reflect that.  I know someone who went from a 26 ACT to a 34 following a prep course and got a big scholarship for engineering - not a super-top school but still a good-enough fit for this student; the course was probably expensive, maybe a thousand bucks, but boy did it pay off for that kid.

 

Middle school is not too early to start looking at the financial angle, such as how much you think you can afford and comparing that to the NPCs for various schools.  You'd need to go to specific school websites in order to run the NPCs.  It's also good to get a feel for what types of schools might offer merit scholarships for the type of student you think you may have in terms of abilities and possible program interests.  I think it's important to be realistic at the outset about what you can plan to spend compared to what various types of schools will charge you and that comparison is very family-specific as well as school-specific.  FA hasn't been a big part of my reading as we are full-pay everywhere; for those on the cusp of possible FA, it will take some time to understand the lay of the land and I'd strongly recommend getting started on that effort now.

Edited February 1, 2017 by wapiti

[madteaparty]

Yeah. I've started dipping into those... I know they're there. This is rather depressing though because neither of my kids test well enough that they'll ever be getting scholarships based on their SAT scores and our income is not low enough to justify much need based aid. So basically... I'm guessing we're just screwed. I might be able to push BalletBoy into better test scores. He doesn't test particularly poorly and some of the things that make him a weaker tester can get better - but I doubt it'll be enough to make him win any big scholarships. But if I spent four years of high school trying to make Mushroom into a better test taker, he'd likely need to go on meds, he'd be beyond miserable, and we'd probably be stuck paying for therapy instead of college anyway. So I'm thinking that's a bad idea. Second mortgage it is, I guess.

 

Maybe this is really what bugs me. I mean, I got into homeschooling so I could focus on *education* and quality and the individual children I have over any sort of cookie cutter, test-driven, conveyor belt of education that's always focused on the next thing instead of actually worrying about the actual learning that is or isn't taking place in the first place. Thinking about needing to start prepping SAT scores in middle school makes me want to shout obscenities.

There are some schools that don't much look at test scores for admission, Bard is one (I know bc close by, plus a very interesting New Yorker article about its president a couple years back. I don't know how they handle the aid issue. We don't qualify for anything at all, but maybe we can finish paying our own student loans before we roll into paying for the children 🙄

I'm still insisting on good test scores: echoing others, this 7th grade is when my child has become more assertive and if it were up to him he would dual enroll literature and language classes and do nothing else. So it's not lThat prep, but he would literally do no math if given a choice.

Edited January 31, 2017 by madteaparty

[8filltheheart]

I am going to issue a word of caution about test optional schools---they are not usually test optional for homeschoolers.

 

Fwiw, we don't do any test prep before 10th grade. Test prep consists of pacing and knowing how to read the questions for what they are asking. There is zero need to teach anything for the test bc they are all things they know just from having a solid education. Also, not a single school my Dd applied to this yr looked at the essay score. A lot of schools are dropping the essay part of the SAT/ACT.

 

Another fwiw, my kids do not have tippy top scores as in the 99+%. They have solid test scores that make the hurdle for most scholarship cutoffs. Our experience is that once a certain level of score is reached then the threshold has been met.

[Lori D.]

Yeah. I've started dipping into those... I know they're there. This is rather depressing though because neither of my kids test well enough that they'll ever be getting scholarships based on their SAT scores and our income is not low enough to justify much need based aid. So basically... I'm guessing we're just screwed. I might be able to push BalletBoy into better test scores. He doesn't test particularly poorly and some of the things that make him a weaker tester can get better - but I doubt it'll be enough to make him win any big scholarships. But if I spent four years of high school trying to make Mushroom into a better test taker, he'd likely need to go on meds, he'd be beyond miserable, and we'd probably be stuck paying for therapy instead of college anyway. So I'm thinking that's a bad idea. Second mortgage it is, I guess.

 

Maybe this is really what bugs me. I mean, I got into homeschooling so I could focus on *education* and quality and the individual children I have over any sort of cookie cutter, test-driven, conveyor belt of education that's always focused on the next thing instead of actually worrying about the actual learning that is or isn't taking place in the first place. Thinking about needing to start prepping SAT scores in middle school makes me want to shout obscenities. 

 

:grouphug:  I know, I know. :( This is a frustrating time to live in. The economy went bust and hosed the job market so that to even GET a job you have to have a Bachelor's degree -- AND simultaneously college costs skyrocketed. That all happened right as our DSs entered high school, which meant that all of the savings in educational bonds and IRAs that we had been doing for each DS since BEFORE DSs were born (which we thought would pretty much cover 4 years (8 semesters) of college costs) ended up being barely enough that it would have covered only the tuition for 3 semesters for each DS at the local state Univ., and only if they were living at home. So, we didn't go that route, but pursued alternatives.

 

Farrar, take hope; there are options. If your students can score at or above a 28 (ACT) or 1280 (SAT), that puts them in the 75th percentile of MANY colleges, which will land them some partial scholarships. I don't think that you have to turn your high school into a test-prep camp to reach that goal. ;) Find what is the most effective and efficient/streamlined way to prep for each of your DSs, do that, test, and then move on with your lives.

 

Neither of our DSs good testers or wanted to test much -- so we only tested ONCE each for the PSAT (11th grade), the ACT (end of 11th), and SAT (beginning of 12th). We spent about 20 min./day 3-4x/week for the 8 weeks leading up to the PSAT test, and then prepped/practiced for about 4 leading up to each of the SAT/ACT test. That was what was manageable for us. That's only about 60-90 minutes a WEEK spent focusing on testing, and only for a short season -- the 1-2 months before testing. 

 

More possibilities:

 

Being a male in the female-dominated field of Dance makes BalletBoy a very desirable candidate for colleges who would be likely to add more partial scholarship money. Jenny in Florida of these boards has a DS who started out majoring in dance but who is in the midst of shifting his interests a bit, so you might find their journey helpful.

 

Knocking out 2 years of the gen. ed. requirements at a much cheaper community college (or through lots of CLEP tests) and then transferring for the last 2 years of the Bachelor's degree can reduce costs. (That was the route for DS#1 here, which reduced total costs by over half.)

 

Since testing is not your DSs' thing, going the route of racking up credits through CLEP testing, or earning a distance-learning Bachelor's degree via online classes and CLEP testing (through a program like Lumerit -- formerly College Plus) will probably NOT be their best option. (I'm more throwing that out there for anyone else reading this thread.)

 

There are also university exchange programs, or earning a degree overseas, which can often be much cheaper options. There are also tuition-free colleges and work-for-tuition colleges if your student's interests match up with their degree offerings and the college's mission or perspective.

 

Maybe a 4-year degree isn't even the best route for either of your DSs. There's always AAS (a 2-year Associate's degree straight to work in a vocational-tech field), or entrepreneurship. Or "not college yet" --earn some experience and educational credit through volunteering/travel with the Peace Corps or AmeriCorps or other organization (which also makes a person a desirable transfer student scholarship candidate when entering college later on).

 

For more on paying for college these 2 threads have lots of interesting alternative ideas:

- "s/o of Cautionary Tale: High College Costs -- a brainstorm $$ ideas thread!"

- "How are YOU managing to pay for college?"

 

And these links:

- Automatic Full Tuition/Full Ride Scholarship List of Colleges

- Search Engine website ($8 fee) for partial and full automatic scholarships

- Colleges that go the extra mile to make it financially possible to attend

- Earn While Learning College list

 

Bottom line: you do NOT have to make middle school and/or high school all about testing. You can pursue your passions and interests. You can successfully follow alternatives to the cookie-cutter public school model into adulthood and careers. Take it one year at a time. Choices and opportunities you didn't know about will very likely appear on your horizon later on in high school. Just keep your eyes and ears open, and keep as many doors open as possible by shooting for a college prep set of credits -- done YOUR way. It will likely be a more exciting ride, academically AND financial planning-wise, but you can do it. :)

Edited January 31, 2017 by Lori D.

[Farrar]

I'm still insisting on good test scores: echoing others, this 7th grade is when my child has become more assertive and if it were up to him he would dual enroll literature and language classes and do nothing else. So it's not lThat prep, but he would literally do no math if given a choice.

 

I don't know if I can "insist" on good test scores though, especially with my outside the box thinker, anxious kid. I mean, can you "insist" that a child who is five feet tall reach a seven foot shelf without a ladder? It's just cruel.

 

I can insist on doing some amount (a lot or a little) of test prep, but what you put in doesn't mean you'll get anything out.

 

I know that a lot of people really harken to expectations, but I had a student years ago who really taught me that expectations can destroy kids. She had mild anxiety, she was a bright, creative, smart kid who was driven to learn, but who had perfectionist tendencies. Her parents were tricky all year long. I couldn't get a handle on them. Then, at our 8th grade graduation, it was a called Meeting, so the kids had to be silent, and adults who love them could speak to them out of the silence to honor them. Well, every other kid's parents tell stories about how proud they are, how much they love their kids, sometimes mildly embarrassing anecdotes that illustrate how far the kid has come or anecdotes that illustrate something amazing about the kid. Her parents stood up and you know what they both said? We expect great things from you. And that was pretty much the gist of the whole thing. And I thought, oh, this is why she's always anxious and crushed and they're always unhappy with her and the school. They don't care about the things she does, only about the imagined future and whether or not they can get her there. And I thought, good grief, I will never do that to a kid ever. Push, encourage, strew, realistically lay out what needs to happen to achieve a goal... but not crush with the expectation of "greatness" or "test scores" or anything really.

[madteaparty]

Oh, I was talking about my kid. I've no idea how he scores, but we have to keep doing math, for example.

[8filltheheart]

Our kids know the simple reality. They have to score high enough for at minimum a full-tuition scholarship or they have to commute from home. We refuse to take out loans or cosign, so their budget is either low cost public tuition or room and board (which is a substantial cost, so don't underestimate how much it is). Our Dd that chose OTA, we paid both but it was an Allied Health program at a CC on the other side of the state. The tuition was low and we paid her share of an apartment.

 

It isn't a matter of expecting them to do something or not. It isn't pressure from us. It is fiscal reality and they have a responsibility to function within certain parameters.

[lisabees]

Farrar - there are so many factors when it comes to college.  Fit is number one.  That is academic fit, social fit and financial fit.  With my two older boys, they ended up at their first choice college.  But here's the thing.  My kids - like 8's - knew the reality of our finances.  They were also very invested in finding the right academic and social culture during the college search.  

 

I have shared this story before - during a visit to Swarthmore (the very first college visit we ever made), the admissions director told the kids that if the (college search/application) process doesn't change who you are, then you're not doing it right. At that time, I didn't know what she meant.  But after going through the process with three kids, I now know.  If your kid is engaged in finding that list of schools with the right academic and social personality, if he understands the financial reality, if he writes genuine and thoughtful essays that are reflective of who he truly is, your kid will evolve into someone who knows more about himself.  It is a beautiful thing to watch as they navigate this process.  You'll watch as he decides which things he is willing to compromise and which things he is not willing to compromise. 

 

If the search is done in this way, you should have a nice list of schools - schools that will want an out of the box, anxious BalletBoy or Mushroom because it will be clear that the school and student are the right fit.  

 

Sure - there are financial unknowns.  That's just part of life and being an adult.  Just avoid the whole "It's not fair" attitude from the beginning.  It's a tough pill to swallow.  Life isn't fair.  Private schools are expensive, just like nice cars and designer clothes are.  I can't afford those, so why should I think that I can afford a $70,000/year private school (unless there is a lot of merit and/or financial aid)?

 

Also, avoid comparing your kids to anyone else's.  If your kids can't muster a good SAT score, that is a-okay.  Find the school where YOUR kids can thrive.

 

My older boys go to their top choice colleges because the process was done right.  We knew how to play the game.  And when played right, everyone comes out a winner.  It makes paying that bill so much easier when you know your kids have found the right place.

 

Enjoy the ride.  Don't worry.  Your boys are going to be just fine!

Edited February 1, 2017 by lisabees

[8filltheheart]

Farrar - there are so many factors when it comes to college.  Fit is number one.  That is academic fit, social fit and financial fit.  With my two older boys, they ended up at their first choice college.  But here's the thing.  My kids - like 8's - knew the reality of our finances.  They were also very invested in finding the right academic and social culture during the college search.  

 

I have shared this story before - during a visit to Swarthmore (the very first college visit we ever made), the admissions director told the kids that if the (college search/application) process doesn't change who you are, then you're not doing it right. At that time, I didn't know what she meant.  But after going through the process with three kids, I now know.  If your kid is engaged in finding that list of schools with the right academic and social personality, if he understands the financial reality, if he writes genuine and thoughtful essays that are reflective of who he truly is, your kid will evolve into someone who knows more about himself.  It is a beautiful thing to watch as they navigate this process.  You'll watch as he decides which things he is willing to compromise and which things he is not willing to compromise. 

 

If the search is done in this way, you should have a nice list of schools - schools that will want an out of the box, anxious BalletBoy or Mushroom because it will be clear that the school and student are the right fit.  

 

Sure - there are financial unknowns.  That's just part of life and being an adult.  Just avoid the whole "It's not fair" attitude from the beginning.  It's a tough pill to swallow.  Life isn't fair.  Private schools are expensive, just like nice cars and designer clothes are.  I can't afford those, so why should I think that I can afford a $70,000/year private school (unless there is a lot of merit and/or financial aid)?

 

Also, avoid comparing your kids to anyone else's.  If your kids can't muster a good SAT score, that is a-okay.  Find the school where YOUR kids can thrive.

 

My older boys go to their top choice colleges because the process was done right.  We knew how to play the game.  And when played right, everyone comes out a winner.  It makes paying that bill so much easier when you know your kids have found the right place.

 

Enjoy the ride.  Don't worry.  Your boys are going to be just fine!

 

Excellent post full of wisdom!