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Help with 7th grade lineup for dyslexic student


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Hi all!

 

I am helping tutor a newly homeschooled 7th grader this year. She is dyslexic but went through extensive OG remediation. She now struggles with Reading Comprehension, reading speed and getting thoughts onto paper. I also suspect some auditory processing issues as well. We started out the year trying various things and are having to change things up quickly.

 

Here's what we have going for now.

 

History: History Odyssey Ancients Level 2 - This is a major sore point for her. It's just a lot. She's having trouble extrapolating much from the text. I have toyed with just having her join in on SOTW with some supplements. Any suggestions for fleshing out SOTW 1?? Or maybe some other possible suggestions??

 

Bible: Reading from the Golden Children's Bible and devotional

 

Math: MUS Zeta -This is going wonderfully! Perfect placement

 

Reading/Lit - Reading lower level books and using lit guides. Narrating. She is currently reading The Hundred Dresses.

 

Science: Real Science Odyssey Biology 2 - Doing much better since we are doing lectures and note taking with the chapters. Would be a stretch otherwise. Open to options if you have suggestions. Although, we do the activities with a homeschool friend and that has been good.

 

Grammar: Growing with Grammar 7

 

Writing: Still trying to work through this. Someone has suggested WWE 2 for this year. I have Writing Strands and Write Shop D that we could try as well. Open to ANY suggestions since she is having so much issue.

 

 

So she is definitely feeling overwhelmed at this point. Mom is worried about what happens if we put her back in school and they don't have proof of tons of work. Proof is not required here. I want to help this child's mental state at this point. I just gave mom a copy of TWTM today to help open her eyes to how homeschooling is different from "regular" school.

 

Any help? Suggestions?

 

 

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First, awesome that you are helping her and trying to tweak things for a better fit.  Kuddos.

 

Now, I think I can better help if I know more about the situation but if you don't feel comfortable sharing I fully understand.  

 

What program were they using for the OG remediation, what is the definition of extensive, and has she had full evaluations?

 

Is the mom planning to put her back in school after 7th grade?  Does she have an IEP from being in school before?  Has she learned to type, yet?  

 

I would have the mom read The Mislabeled Child and the Dyslexic Advantage by Brock and Fernette Eide, maybe The Dyslexia Empowerment Plan by Ben Foss and How to Homeschool Your Struggling Learner by Kathy Kuhl to maybe help her understand things better.  You might skim them, too, if your library has them and you have any time.

 

As for tutoring this student, those seem to be very reading/writing intense programs for a newly homeschooling dyslexic that is already feeling overwhelmed.  Keep in mind that all of those things are brain draining.  They are going to sap her mental strength and if she still is struggling with these areas, you are going to need to pick and choose where she focuses her energy.  The rest of the time, if at all possible. maybe scribe for her, read to her or let her listen to the audio book format (but with possible CAPD on the table that may not work well), and give her a lot of time to process through things.

 

1.  Yes, switch her to SOTW 1, and add in some audio books/supplemental material as long as it isn't reading/writing intense.  Keep the reading/writing very light with her content subjects for now.

 

2.  Look at a more systematic program for writing.  If the mom was willing/able to cover the cost you might look at IEW SWI-B.  

 

3.  Scribe for her on some things if you can.  If not, then keep output in written form limited to only certain things, particularly her writing program, but try to find other ways to provide feedback in content material.  Allow her to do the rest verbally if you can, while she works to build up the necessary skills for reading/writing/spelling.

 

 

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I woukd think SOTW would be toughfor her. It is for my boys. I had to abandon it til later grades.

 

That is a rigorous series of books.

We went to reading the suggested reading fir history of beautiful feet. Lots of pictures ( help figure out the text) and gentle.

Beautiful feet has worked awesome for my boys. Yes, dyslectic here too and APD . I would dump SOTW for her and read aloud the bf list. It has activities and comp questions too. The guide is inexpensive , and you can check out the books from the library .

 

On science. I'm not familiar with that program but lots of hands on stuff works well for dyslexics. I do history of science , that's beautiful feet too . and we do experiments . like plant an apple seed after we've read Johnny applseed ( the longer version not the short one) but it still has pictures and isn't overwhelming. Then we chart the growing of the seed. We draw it, label the parts from a plant book, form a hypothesis, and chart our findings.

They love that. Their Apple tree even took root when we moved it outside! :) they were so pleased.

 

It's about taking the pressure off and explore what thy love.

 

Definitely tho, first thing I would do is dump SOTW . it would have been fine for my big kids, little ones? Not so much. We tried it. I may as well have been speaking g Greek lol.

 

Try bf and books with more pictures and some experiments. She can...be a scientist :)

 

That's so awesome you're doing g that. Good woman you are :)

 

ETA: BF has a middle school one too. The intermediate one. I still use the elementary one with my guys.

Edited by Kat w
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First, awesome that you are helping her and trying to tweak things for a better fit. Kuddos.

 

Now, I think I can better help if I know more about the situation but if you don't feel comfortable sharing I fully understand.

 

What program were they using for the OG remediation, what is the definition of extensive, and has she had full evaluations?

 

Is the mom planning to put her back in school after 7th grade? Does she have an IEP from being in school before? Has she learned to type, yet?

 

I would have the mom read The Mislabeled Child and the Dyslexic Advantage by Brock and Fernette Eide, maybe The Dyslexia Empowerment Plan by Ben Foss and How to Homeschool Your Struggling Learner by Kathy Kuhl to maybe help her understand things better. You might skim them, too, if your library has them and you have any time.

 

As for tutoring this student, those seem to be very reading/writing intense programs for a newly homeschooling dyslexic that is already feeling overwhelmed. Keep in mind that all of those things are brain draining. They are going to sap her mental strength and if she still is struggling with these areas, you are going to need to pick and choose where she focuses her energy. The rest of the time, if at all possible. maybe scribe for her, read to her or let her listen to the audio book format (but with possible CAPD on the table that may not work well), and give her a lot of time to process through things.

 

1. Yes, switch her to SOTW 1, and add in some audio books/supplemental material as long as it isn't reading/writing intense. Keep the reading/writing very light with her content subjects for now.

 

2. Look at a more systematic program for writing. If the mom was willing/able to cover the cost you might look at IEW SWI-B.

 

3. Scribe for her on some things if you can. If not, then keep output in written form limited to only certain things, particularly her writing program, but try to find other ways to provide feedback in content material. Allow her to do the rest verbally if you can, while she works to build up the necessary skills for reading/writing/spelling.

Okay, I will try to best answer your went through 3 years of Barton tutoring. She was in a private school that also has a very well known dyslexia tutoring program. She was in it for 3 years and graduated from their program. I don't believe she had an IEP last year but the teachers did work with her. I'm not sure who did the evaluations but I'm considering asking this week. She might even have dysgraphia from what I'm seeing. I can tell she is overwhelmed.

 

Her mom doesn't want to put her back in school but realizes it could be a possibility come 9th grade. Her fears right now is that the school system will try too hold her back a grade after homeschooling. She is seriously terrified. She is currently learning to type. Not quite there yet.

 

Yeah, audio books don't seem to help at this point. We tried that for about a month.

 

Okay,

 

How do I help her flesh out SOTW?

 

Should I talk to them about switching out RSO? Her mom is truly worried about her doing middle school work. :(

 

I will talk to her about IEW. If she needs it, the mom will spring for it. We're going to try a unit of Write Shop D and see how that goes as well.

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I woukd think SOTW would be toughfor her. It is for my boys. I had to abandon it til later grades.

 

That is a rigorous series of books.

We went to reading the suggested reading fir history of beautiful feet. Lots of pictures ( help figure out the text) and gentle.

Beautiful feet has worked awesome for my boys. Yes, dyslectic here too and APD . I would dump SOTW for her and read aloud the bf list. It has activities and comp questions too. The guide is inexpensive , and you can check out the books from the library .

 

On science. I'm not familiar with that program but lots of hands on stuff works well for dyslexics. I do history of science , that's beautiful feet too . and we do experiments . like plant an apple seed after we've read Johnny applseed ( the longer version not the short one) but it still has pictures and isn't overwhelming. Then we chart the growing of the seed. We draw it, label the parts from a plant book, form a hypothesis, and chart our findings.

They love that. Their Apple tree even took root when we moved it outside! :) they were so pleased.

 

It's about taking the pressure off and explore what thy love.

 

Definitely tho, first thing I would do is dump SOTW . it would have been fine for my big kids, little ones? Not so much. We tried it. I may as well have been speaking g Greek lol.

 

Try bf and books with more pictures and some experiments. She can...be a scientist :)

 

That's so awesome you're doing g that. Good woman you are :)

 

ETA: BF has a middle school one too. The intermediate one. I still use the elementary one with my guys.

I understand where you are coming from, but are you saying SOTW is too much for a 12 year old? I could see in some instances where it would be. I'm just not sure if you saw that this child is older.

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With regards to SOTW, it was a good fit for my DS but he loves history.  It was a terrible fit for DD but she has dyscalculia and no sense of the passage of time.  Therefore she has no sense of how history works (although that has improved) since to her all of the events in the books have zero connection.  There is no tapestry of events in her head.  Just isolated incidents.  Made it hard for her to follow the books.

 

You might just TRY the SOTW reading with her and see if she connects to the material.

 

I am wondering how thorough her evaluations were and how far she got in Barton.  Are you saying she finished the Barton material and a separate OG based program through the school but still struggles significantly with reading and writing?

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With regards to SOTW, it was a good fit for my DS but he loves history. It was a terrible fit for DD but she has dyscalculia and no sense of the passage of time. Therefore she has no sense of how history works (although that has improved) since to her all of the events in the books have zero connection. There is no tapestry of events in her head. Just isolated incidents. Made it hard for her to follow the books.

 

You might just TRY the SOTW reading with her and see if she connects to the material.

 

I am wondering how thorough her evaluations were and how far she got in Barton. Are you saying she finished the Barton material and a separate OG based program through the school but still struggles significantly with reading and writing?

I'm not sure what materials she actually got through. I may try to get more information. She can ready very well and is fluent when reading aloud. She does have a hard time retaining what she reads though. She writes horrible run-on sentences. There is no end to a sentence that I have seen yet. She really just doesn't understand how to form a sentence correctly.

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I'm not sure what materials she actually got through. I may try to get more information. She can ready very well and is fluent when reading aloud. She does have a hard time retaining what she reads though. She writes horrible run-on sentences. There is no end to a sentence that I have seen yet. She really just doesn't understand how to form a sentence correctly.

Ah, o.k. things are starting to make more sense.  Lets break this up into categories so maybe people can help you tweak this out.

 

Reading:  She reads very well and is fluent when reading out loud.  If you read TO her, and read at a bit slower pace, can she retain the information?  If she reads silently does she do better than if she reads out loud?  

 

(FWIW, DD can read or she can listen but she struggles to do both at the same time.  If she is reading out loud she has to read in very small segments then review or she does not really PROCESS what she is reading, if that makes any sense.  Reading silently is challenging for my son because his "inner voice" is not very developed yet.)

 

If she has significant Auditory Processing issues that will definitely impact her ability to glean anything from audio books and may explain why that didn't work very well.  Can you tell if it is more listening to content books or narrative based stories that are the issue when listening (either through you or audio books)?  What books did you try and what sort of evaluation of her retention did you use?

 

Writing: Yes, she may have a form of dysgraphia.   Does she have any issues with the physical act of writing itself or it only in the getting thoughts on paper/grammar/punctuation?  

 

In all likelihood she is going to need something incredibly systematic to help her break all of the pieces apart and reassemble them into something she can apply consistently (which is what her OG based tutoring did for her with regards to reading).  I recommend IEW coupled with Fix-It Grammar if you think you could use them and her mom can pay for the material.  Fix-It is so short and breaks down all the pieces.  4 days a week, 15 minutes a day.  IEW has the DVDs for her to watch, which would take some of this off of your plate.  You could facilitate without having to "teach" per se.

 

Reading and writing are frequently not intuitive at all for a dyslexic, especially if you add in potential dysgraphia and CAPD and possibly other issues that can frequently be co-morbid.  She is going to need targeted help and time and a lot of patience.  She is also going to need for a lot of her work to NOT require a ton of independent writing while she gets the pieces in place.

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No no, what i was saying was, fir a dyslexic...it can be too much.

It was fir my boys, my older kids would have eaten it uo as I said before...they would have been into it.

 

But a dyslexic throws another thing into the mix eso if ADP is suspected. Too much for their brains to absorb *while* they are trying to receive the other aspects of learning. Primarily, reading fluently.

 

Also on the writing strands. I used that with my big kids. Daughters hated it.

 

I do WWE 1 with my boys.

 

Maybe go back a level in wwe? It's smaller chunks . and easier to help them get it formulated in their heads and out of their mouths. Again, esp of adp is suspected.

 

That's all. I love SOTW and can't wait til I can use it with my boys.

If it were my oldest...she coulda handled that at 8. But for the dyslexic, they are trying to make sense of all that's going on in their brains. It's pressure for them. That's all. I'm a huge wtm and SOTW fan. Jus, dysleics can surely have trouble with it and diminish confidence.

 

That's what I would do. It's what u did actually lol.

 

The question was asked. I answered . never said SOTW is not for a 12 yo. It CAN...be way to overwhelming to a dyslexic :)

Edited by Kat w
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Audio books didn't help mine either...REALLY sounding more like an added mix of adp.

 

The ADP is what kept my sons from getting the audio books. We did more read aloud ( that's where pics come into play) then after made progress there....went back to audiobooks but stopped after several sentences and talk about it..then had them talk to me...gradually we build whole chapter stamina on the audiobooks.

Edited by Kat w
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Ah, o.k. things are starting to make more sense. Lets break this up into categories so maybe people can help you tweak this out.

 

Reading: She reads very well and is fluent when reading out loud. If you read TO her, and read at a bit slower pace, can she retain the information? If she reads silently does she do better than if she reads out loud?

 

(FWIW, DD can read or she can listen but she struggles to do both at the same time. If she is reading out loud she has to read in very small segments then review or she does not really PROCESS what she is reading, if that makes any sense. Reading silently is challenging for my son because his "inner voice" is not very developed yet.)

 

If she has significant Auditory Processing issues that will definitely impact her ability to glean anything from audio books and may explain why that didn't work very well. Can you tell if it is more listening to content books or narrative based stories that are the issue when listening (either through you or audio books)? What books did you try and what sort of evaluation of her retention did you use?

 

Writing: Yes, she may have a form of dysgraphia. Does she have any issues with the physical act of writing itself or it only in the getting thoughts on paper/grammar/punctuation?

 

In all likelihood she is going to need something incredibly systematic to help her break all of the pieces apart and reassemble them into something she can apply consistently (which is what her OG based tutoring did for her with regards to reading). I recommend IEW coupled with Fix-It Grammar if you think you could use them and her mom can pay for the material. Fix-It is so short and breaks down all the pieces. 4 days a week, 15 minutes a day. IEW has the DVDs for her to watch, which would take some of this off of your plate. You could facilitate without having to "teach" per se.

 

Reading and writing are frequently not intuitive at all for a dyslexic, especially if you add in potential dysgraphia and CAPD and possibly other issues that can frequently be co-morbid. She is going to need targeted help and time and a lot of patience. She is also going to need for a lot of her work to NOT require a ton of independent writing while she gets the pieces in place.

Reading: If she could not lose attention while I am reading aloud, she might be able to comprehend more. She is very distracted. She feels she retains more if she reads silently or out loud on her own. We will play around with this though.

 

Writing: Her handwriting is definitely super sloppy. She doesn't stay in the lines like you would expect with a typical 7th grader. Her BIGGEST issue is trying to form sentences and make sens of what she has read though.

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Yea. Mine too. Making sense of what's read. NP told us that was the ADP. Smaller chunks. Lots of talking. Do it for her ( the narrative) show her , let her hear what ita supposed to sound like. You'll get there :)

 

The dysgraphia ( we have that too) we traced the draw write now books. The letters first and I would at first put my hand over theirs and show them how it's supposed to feel...then gradually they did it on their own, sloppy, just not as sloppy. One day they were doing it on their own and made great progress that way.

They traced and colored the picture too :) they were so pleased at a finished product :)

They tracedthe letters for a year and now my 12 yo has beautiful handwriting ..the 10 has made great strides. Hea almost there ;)

 

I scribed for them when I could. Like on the narrations from wwe. When I'd read it back sometimes they noticed it did t sound right. From there we worked more on it. Now my 12 yo is really good at narration. Almost ready for wwe2 :) yay! Lol

 

Those draw write now books are like magic I swear. Tracing and having a picture too? Ha-ha. I would display them and make a big deal. Made them want to get better about staying in lines, making a straight line for writing etc

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Ya know what would be a good idea? Have mom email Susan Barton. I say mom BC I'm sure fir legalities it would have to be mom plus mom will have more background info.

 

I was super surprised, Susan Barton herlsef emailed me back and took the time to talk with me and tell me what I needed to do next.

Which was focus heavy language and do lips.

 

It helped...we only failed C after that! Ha-ha :)

 

It has worked even more since I got back to lips and kept on with the letter tiles.

 

Have mom email her. She'll know what to do :)

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Ya know what would be a good idea? Have mom email Susan Barton. I say mom BC I'm sure fir legalities it would have to be mom plus mom will have more background info.

 

I was super surprised, Susan Barton herlsef emailed me back and took the time to talk with me and tell me what I needed to do next.

Which was focus heavy language and do lips.

 

It helped...we only failed C after that! Ha-ha :)

 

It has worked even more since I got back to lips and kept on with the letter tiles.

 

Have mom email her. She'll know what to do :)

Kat W I think you are confusing Umsami's thread and this one?   This student has done extensive OG based training, including Barton.  Her reading is fluent.  She is just struggling with writing and with retaining material through auditory input.  That speaks more to needing help with writing and with possible CAPD issues.  I don't think Susan Barton would be as much of a help in this situation.

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Reading: If she could not lose attention while I am reading aloud, she might be able to comprehend more. She is very distracted. She feels she retains more if she reads silently or out loud on her own. We will play around with this though.

 

Writing: Her handwriting is definitely super sloppy. She doesn't stay in the lines like you would expect with a typical 7th grader. Her BIGGEST issue is trying to form sentences and make sens of what she has read though.

If she is struggling to stay focused as you read, could she be ADD?  Does she have anything she could be doing with her hands while she listens?  (Both of my kids have to be moving to listen.  Quite literally.  DD usually sketches or sometimes swings while I read.  DS sometimes bounces on the mini trampoline or plays with legos or whatever.  We are getting additional evals at the end of this month for several reasons but partly because both may be ADD/ADHD.)

 

For the physical act of handwriting, you can try targeting handwriting specifically with short daily practice, possibly with New American Cursive (they have a version for older kids that isn't babyish), but it may take significant targeted time and practice to improve her handwriting and she may only be able to improve so far.  You might look at specialized paper with guided lines or use the Start Write Software so you can create the guided lines and copy and trace work based on what she is currently learning or personal interests.

 

In the meantime it really seems like what she needs is for extensive writing output (anything more than a sentence or two) to primarily be for her writing program, whatever that may be. For content subjects, at least for now, she may be better off with a mixture of speech to text software and others scribing for her while she hopefully learns to type (which I would have her practice on daily, possibly with Touch, Type, Read and Spell since it specifically helps dyslexics and can be found on sale through Homeschool Buyer's Co-Op).

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Yes. It is OK to focus on the 3 r's. Sometimes you have to take several steps back...to soar many steps forward . :)

 

They have to have the basics...then with maturity and eqquipped with the 3 r's foundation, the can make strides you never thought possible :)

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Onestep, I went back and read this original post to double check.

 

This is the student that did Barton right? I think I was said maybe further down thread.

 

If shea done Barton and having trouble reading fluently,or comprehending what is read, I don't see why Susan Barton wouldn't be able to help.

 

It's her program and child needs help reading and comprehending...am I understanding that right?

 

Sudan Barton helped me with my younger guy who wasn't comprehending what he read.

 

I have one who can fly his eyeballs across page but had no idea what he was reading.

Then I have one who couldn't read at all. That falls into her area of expertise.

 

This child did some Barton...am I correct ?

Edited by Kat w
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If she's done Barton and still having trouble. ....which is my understanding of this...I do t see why Susan Barton wouldn't know how to direct her.

She did me on both my boys and we hadn't even done Barton yet.

We wanted to tho! Lol

 

ETA:

I went back and reread again, I think I have the 2 straight.

 

My guy lacking comprehension, she helped me with too. Not just the one who couldn't read at all .

If the DC is having trouble comprehending, Barton could be good for her to finish, Susan Barton I'm sure would have advice on what to do to get her comprehending and she could finish Barton.

 

She's awesome and hads loads of knowledge in this area, weather the DC had done Barton or not.

 

I like her lol :)

Edited by Kat w
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If she's done Barton and still having trouble. ....which is my understanding of this...I do t see why Susan Barton wouldn't know how to direct her.

She did me on both my boys and we hadn't even done Barton yet.

We wanted to tho! Lol

 

ETA:

I went back and reread again, I think I have the 2 straight.

 

My guy lacking comprehension, she helped me with too. Not just the one who couldn't read at all .

If the DC is having trouble comprehending, Barton could be good for her to finish, Susan Barton I'm sure would have advice on what to do to get her comprehending and she could finish Barton.

 

She's awesome and hads loads of knowledge in this area, weather the DC had done Barton or not.

 

I like her lol :)

Oh I agree, Susan is awesome.  :)  There was a comment on this thread and a comment on Umsami's thread that made me think you might have confused them (which I have definitely done before).  My apologies.

 

OP, yes, Susan Barton might be able to help and yes it might work better if the mom could contact her directly since the daughter has already done Barton (it might also help us help you if you could find out how far in Barton she got.  There are 10 levels.).

 

As for culling down to the 3 Rs, yes that makes sense.  I have more to add but I need to run for a bit.  

 

Best wishes.

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I know onestep, it's pretty wild there's 2 posts, titled almost the same, same grade, and both if those sweet women are helping a friend child.

 

I had to go back to make sure whose what I was on lol.

 

Pretty wild. Both 7th, both dyslexic, both helping a friend.

 

Always point out if you think I'm mixed up, one of my biggest fears is ever giving wrong info :)

Edited by Kat w
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History: History Odyssey Ancients Level 2 - This is a major sore point for her. It's just a lot. She's having trouble extrapolating much from the text. I have toyed with just having her join in on SOTW with some supplements. Any suggestions for fleshing out SOTW 1?? Or maybe some other possible suggestions??

 

 

 

Writing: Still trying to work through this. Someone has suggested WWE 2 for this year. I have Writing Strands and Write Shop D that we could try as well. Open to ANY suggestions since she is having so much issue.

 

 

 

You could look into IEW's Ancient History-Based Writing Lessons. This might kill two birds with one stone: work on basic writing skills plus have something to show for history, supplementing SOTW 1.

 

That said, I did find WWE helpful for reading comprehension

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You mention she needs help with sentences - I don't think the Write-Shop will necessarily work but maybe.  Take a look at the stuff at the Write Foundation.  It is a little gem that not many homeschoolers know about but it is really good for kids that struggle with writing.  I know the gold standard is IEW but I've not found that to work with my dyslexic/dysgraphic but because the lessons from the WF series encourage the students to type the assignment it is a great fit.  There is a lot of repetitive assignments, which can be not so great for the average learner, but dyslexics tend to need a lot of practice and the practice being done in small portions.  Another option would be the Writing Skills books from Diana Harbury King.

 

As for doing the basic 3 Rs - most definitely.  It makes me aggravated when people think that just because they've finished remediation for the dyslexia that they are magically cured and can just go on about their business as normal.  They need, and will need, accommodations throughout their lives. 

 

If you do use SOTW would she enjoy coloring because there are coloring sheets to work on while you read?  It might be a way to try out the engaging in one thing while listening without a big expense.  Another option is to also add in a visual colorful encyclopedia.  I'm not sure that I'd worry about mastering these lessons but rather a gentle exposure.  You could also find other visual videos/movies as topics come up.  I know she is 7th grade but that doesn't mean she has to be taught like she's in a college lecture hall.  There are fun, hands-on activities to flesh out lessons.  Playmobil used to have some Egyptian stuff that made for fun interactions.  I would just focus on exposure and if she retains better when she reads on her own scour the reading lists on HOD, Sonlight, etc. to find books that are on the easier side for her to read independently.  Don't make it more of a challenge to read and retain - sometimes starting much lower gains more personal achievement and accomplishments. 

 

One thing that worked wonders for grammar around here was the white board and an EPS daily grammar review book.  I wrote the sentences on the white board and we worked through each sentence.  You could do this with reading comprehension, too  Buy a workbook that is lower level to work on a short reading each day. 

 

I'm glad the math is working beautifully!! 

 

As for science, yeah, I still haven't found that magic program myself.

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