Math help for struggling student

[Sue G in PA]

My rising 10th grade son struggles with most things academic. Veterans of WTM will recall my constant challenges with this child. It hasn't improved much. I am in serious need of some advice with math. I tried MUS Pre-Algebra last year and he was getting half the problems wrong on each worksheet. I switched to LOF Pre-Algebra which he seems to enjoy more and do better with, however he was still struggling. I went ahead and purchased a new curriculum from Masterbooks called Principles of Mathematics. 2 Books covers everything a students would need to know before beginning Algebra. He's not liking it that much. He doesn't like much of anything school related so that doesn't matter much to me. I just don't know what to do for him. Where should I start? What would help him be Algebra ready by next year? In PA, we need Algebra and Geometry. So, as long as he gets to those by 11th or 12th grade I'm happy. He likely is not college bound. 

 

Somebody recommended ALEKS but I don't even know where to start with that or if the $20/mo would be worth it. Should I just stick with the Principles of Mathematics and work through it slowly, hoping to be ready for Algebra by summer? Help? 

[OneStepAtATime]

Has he ever had any evaluations for learning differences?

[lauranc]

For my 15 yr old who struggles with math, I bought CLE Math https://www.clp.org/store/by_course/175

 

We used  CLE pre-algebra last year, and he's half way through Algebra I for this year.

 

He needs direct instruction and a lot of review, and this curriculum provided it.  It goes pretty incrementally and the books explain things in a way that he understands. Although, he  also uses Khan Academy online when he needs more explanation.   The books themselves (10 in all) are pretty thin, so not overwhelming.  You can buy the quizzes/tests as well-- which we did.

 

Not sure if it will matter to you/your son, but I believe the company is a Mennonite company and there are some word problems dealing with some religious content.  My son's not a religious guy, so he tends to just skip the (very infrequent) questions that seem a little 'out there' to him.  But the math content is exactly what he needed and it's got him a long way.

 

He'll be doing geometry in the fall through Well Trained Mind Academy since algebra I is where my comfort level ends. :001_smile:

 

Another idea for your son--if you haven't already looked into it-- may be the Key to.. math books  http://www.christianbook.com/key-to-algebra-books-1-10/9781559530880/pd/53088

 

 

ETA:  Have you looked at this? http://homeschool.kineticbooks.com/preAlgebra.php

--Laura

 

Edited July 2, 2016 by lauranc

[Guest]

For my 15 yr old who struggles with math, I bought CLE Math https://www.clp.org/store/by_course/175

 

We used CLE pre-algebra last year, and he's half way through Algebra I for this year.

 

He needs direct instruction and a lot of review, and this curriculum provided it. It goes pretty incrementally and the books explain things in a way that he understands. Although, he also uses Khan Academy online when he needs more explanation. The books themselves (10 in all) are pretty thin, so not overwhelming. You can buy the quizzes/tests as well-- which we did.

 

Not sure if it will matter to you/your son, but I believe the company is a Mennonite company and there are some word problems dealing with some religious content. My son's not a religious guy, so he tends to just skip the (very infrequent) questions that seem a little 'out there' to him. But the math content is exactly what he needed and it's got him a long way.

 

He'll be doing geometry in the fall through Well Trained Mind Academy since algebra I is where my comfort level ends. :001_smile:

 

Another idea for your son--if you haven't already looked into it-- may be the Key to.. math books http://www.christianbook.com/key-to-algebra-books-1-10/9781559530880/pd/53088

 

 

ETA: Have you looked at this? http://homeschool.kineticbooks.com/preAlgebra.php

--Laura

I second CLE. I used that to go back and remediate some issues my dd was having with math the last two years. We were using TT as are main program but CLE to shore up. Now we've switched to it completely for Algebra 1. I wish we had started with it. Dd took the ITBS in May and her math scores were the highest they've ever been. Much higher than public school. This is the first time I've had her tested since we started home schooling. I am VERY happy with the improvement. She had tutoring all through public school as well, so I'm confident in saying it wasn't an issue of one on one. I believe it was an issue of the program and the confidence builder CLE is.

[Sue G in PA]

I am familiar with CLE, just not for the upper levels. I will check that out, thanks! I did look back through Principles of Mathematics and while it starts out slow and basic, it does progress quickly and get to rather difficult topics. 

 

When ds was younger, he was evaluated. He had some mental health issues going on and was "diagnosed" Mood Disorder - NOS. Which, basically means "we think something is going on but we aren't sure what". lol. He "outgrew" a lot of the anger, volatility, aggression and depression but his defiance level increased. His evaluation came back with borderline ADHD tendencies. Nothing concrete. We suspected Aspergers based on some tendencies that we were noticing, but the "professional" said no. :/ Anyway, I think the only disability he has is laziness and lack of motivation. He seems very capable when he is doing something that HE wants to do. If I had to guess at a disability it would be dysgraphia. His handwriting is TERRIBLE. And that does hinder his math b/c he is NOT neat. But, what I notice the most in problems he gets wrong are: 1. wrong answer b/c he simply didn't read the problem  2. sloppy work and 3. lack of understanding of the concept.  

[Lori D.]

Based on the additional info of the 3 points you list at the very end of your second post, I'd suggest saving your money and using it for a good local tutor and individualized help and accountability. A good math tutor can help provide very targeted ways of getting the concepts to click for the individual student's needs. Even better, outsourcing makes the student accountable to someone other than mom. ;) Alas, it's not fair, but it is very true that middle school and high school boys VERY often work a lot harder, esp. in areas of struggle or low-interest, for that outsourced class teacher or tutor than for mom.

 

Aleks can be a great program for some, but probably not ideal for a student with LDs or who struggles with math. Aleks uses more traditional/standard methods of explanation and instruction (not always a good fit for non-traditional math struggling students). And Aleks is computerized and impersonal (so no individualized help with approaching math topics in a variety of ways until it clicks), and does not allow the student to move forward until the student's test score for the unit reaches a minimum level. That has hight potential for shutting down a math struggler, or be very demoralizing, if it takes numerous tries at testing to reach the next level…  

 

The students I know locally who have succeeded with Aleks were disciplined self-learners and were advanced in math. But, you never know… There's always the exception to every rule or pattern… ;) BEST of luck in finding what program -- or what outsourcing teacher, mentor, or tutor -- is a great fit for DS! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Lori D.

[Guest]

I am familiar with CLE, just not for the upper levels. I will check that out, thanks! I did look back through Principles of Mathematics and while it starts out slow and basic, it does progress quickly and get to rather difficult topics. 

 

When ds was younger, he was evaluated. He had some mental health issues going on and was "diagnosed" Mood Disorder - NOS. Which, basically means "we think something is going on but we aren't sure what". lol. He "outgrew" a lot of the anger, volatility, aggression and depression but his defiance level increased. His evaluation came back with borderline ADHD tendencies. Nothing concrete. We suspected Aspergers based on some tendencies that we were noticing, but the "professional" said no. :/ Anyway, I think the only disability he has is laziness and lack of motivation. He seems very capable when he is doing something that HE wants to do. If I had to guess at a disability it would be dysgraphia. His handwriting is TERRIBLE. And that does hinder his math b/c he is NOT neat. But, what I notice the most in problems he gets wrong are: 1. wrong answer b/c he simply didn't read the problem  2. sloppy work and 3. lack of understanding of the concept.  

 

So far, to the best of my knowledge "true" CLE only goes through Algebra I. After that I think it's repacked Abeka that isn't very recommended around here. But since you said he was finishing up Pre-Algebra it's worth checking out, imo. That would at least buy you a year to see where you can get him to and then find something else for Algebra II or Geometry, if either of those is the next step. But if handwriting is an issue, it might be worth checking out your DVD options. Teaching Textbooks worked for us for two years- it's just as we go dd is learning more about how *she* prefers her classes, so she asked to go back to CLE because the explanations went a little deeper, which is what she prefers. 

[OnMyOwn]

Sue, my son has some severe problems with handwriting and I sit with him and have him do his math on a whiteboard. A couple of years ago, he got to the point of taking 3 hours a day to do math and half of it would be wrong. We moved to having him use a small whiteboard and he gets his math done in an hour and gets almost everything correct. I don't know if that would make the same difference for your son as it did mine, but I thought I'd mention it since you said he may have dysgraphia.

 

Oh, and my son used CLE algebra with much success. As Texasmom mentioned, the explicit instruction, clear explanations and built-in review were a winning combination.

Edited July 3, 2016 by OnMyOwn

[Sue G in PA]

I couldn't find a CLE Pre-Algebra. Just Algebra. The tutor option is probably our best best. Thanks Lori for that suggestions. We joined our co-op again this year mostly for this child. The classes are all academic and he is accountable to somebody other than me. But math is not a co-op class, lol. Perhaps I should be looking for an online class or a local tutor who can use what curriculum we already have. Off to check out CLE Algebra b/c that might be a good one for him next year. 

[OneStepAtATime]

CLE prealgebra is level 700/800. Some people combine them into one year or only do 700 or do 700 and select portions of 800.

 

Who did the evaluations? Has anyone ever checked him for stealth dyslexia? Has he had an eye exam with a COVD optometrist to rule out developmental vision issues? A regular eye exam frequently won't catch those types of vision issues. In fact a person can have 20/20 vision and still have developmental vision issues. It can cause all kinds of issues with academics that would not necessarily seem to be vision related to a layman.

 

FWIW, if he has dysgraphia that could be a huge part of the problem with his academics. It can affect not just the physical handwriting. You might read further about the latest research into dysgraphia and current recommendations for remediation and accommodations. Try those out and see if it helps.

 

Unfortunately, kids who have differences in the way their brains process are often called lazy because it looks like lack of effort when in fact their brains are putting in tremendous effort. The way they are processing is inefficient though so they may be putting in 10 times more mental effort but producing poor or very slow work. It can be tremendously demoralizing when you feel you are really trying but your effort is seen as poor. Eventually a lot of kids with unremediated learning differences develop a bad attitude and stop trying. Why put in all that effort when the effort is not appreciated and the results are poor?

 

By the way, if you are looking to use CLE, give the free placement test. It could show you where any gaps might be. You or a tutor could fill those in before he starts the program. Much greater chance of success that way.

 

Good luck.

[OnMyOwn]

My ds used CLE for a number of years, but we used CLE 700 as prealgebra and skipped the 800 level before going on to algebra. It would be a good idea to have him take the placement test. And tutoring might be your best bet, so if you can do that, that would be great.

Edited July 3, 2016 by OnMyOwn

[Sue G in PA]

I have never suspected dyslexia. He read at 2 (self-taught) and has never had issues in that area. Handwriting was and has been his only real challenge. I don't think the actual math is in itself the problem. It's the lack of focus. And I don't mean that he CAN'T focus. B/c he can. It's the lack of desire to focus. IDK. I'll see about the placement test over at CLE. That might give us a clue as to what he needs to know moving forward. Thanks.

[OneStepAtATime]

I have never suspected dyslexia. He read at 2 (self-taught) and has never had issues in that area. Handwriting was and has been his only real challenge. I don't think the actual math is in itself the problem. It's the lack of focus. And I don't mean that he CAN'T focus. B/c he can. It's the lack of desire to focus. IDK. I'll see about the placement test over at CLE. That might give us a clue as to what he needs to know moving forward. Thanks.

If he has ADHD (and what you are describing is frequently seen in kids with ADD/ADHD) then it very well may be that for some things (things that are harder or hold little interest for him) he may very well not be able to focus.  Or he may have other issues that are not easily tweaked out.  When was the last time he had an evaluation and who did it?  You might consider getting another one, maybe with a qualified neuropsychologist.  It might give you both better answers for how to handle the situation.  

 

How does he do if you scribe for him with the math?  The dysgraphia, like I mentioned up thread, can cause issues in many areas, not just how someone's handwriting looks.

 

Good luck and best wishes.