wehave8 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) I can't narrow this down!!! I have searched until I can't read one more post. Ds12 will be in 7th and I want him to get an intro to lit. He will be doing America the Beautiful with as many of the extra reading list that we can fit in, but I don't want to overload him on other assigned reading. I've thought of PP, LL7, or CLE 7th. I can't decide what I even want after looking at the differences in these programs. The reviews are all so divided. It looks like there is not much lit. analysis in PP, but maybe I haven't looked closely enough. Maybe we could get a good amount from CLE and still have time for some whole books/classics???? Or should we just read the optinal AtB books and do LL7???? Or PP???? Can you help me decide???? :banghead: Pam Edited July 15, 2016 by wehave8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) Have you done much in the way of discussion of literature or introduced literary terms before? If you're brand new to doing beginning literary analysis/formal Literature, then LL7 is a super gentle way to ease into it. If you have a bit of experience under your belt, then you might find LL7 too "beginner" or "lite" and might prefer CLE 7 would be do-able. Either way, I'd focus the major time on the formal Lit. program, and then just enjoy however much of AtB fits the schedule as family read-aloud or as solo reading supplement. Since quite a few of the 10 books of AtB Lit are on the light / short / young end of reading level, you would probably get through a number of the books. Maybe see which titles are at your local library and just plan on doing those so you don't have to invest in books that you may/may not end up reading…? Below is a quick reading level guide to help in deciding. Enjoy your American studies next year! :) Warmest regards, Lori D. gr. 4-6 - Sign of the Beaver - Brady - All of a Kind Family - Blue Willow - Homer Price gr. 5-8 - Amos Fortune - Little Town on the Prairie gr. 7-10 - Across Five Aprils - Katy -- not familiar with it to know the reading level Edited June 25, 2016 by Lori D. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wehave8 Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share Posted June 25, 2016 Have you done much in the way of discussion of literature or introduced literary terms before? If you're brand new to doing beginning literary analysis/formal Literature, then LL7 is a super gentle way to ease into it. If you have a bit of experience under your belt, then you might find LL7 too "beginner" or "lite" and might prefer CLE 7 would be do-able. Either way, I'd focus the major time on the formal Lit. program, and then just enjoy however much of AtB fits the schedule as family read-aloud or as solo reading supplement. Since quite a few of the 10 books of AtB Lit are on the light / short / young end of reading level, you would probably get through a number of the books. Maybe see which titles are at your local library and just plan on doing those so you don't have to invest in books that you may/may not end up reading…? Below is a quick reading level guide to help in deciding. Enjoy your American studies next year! :) Warmest regards, Lori D. gr. 4-6 - Sign of the Beaver - Brady - All of a Kind Family - Blue Willow - Homer Price gr. 5-8 - Amos Fortune - Little Town on the Prairie gr. 7-10 - Across Five Aprils - Katy -- not familiar with it to know the reading level No, we haven't done anything with literary terms yet. Does LL7 teach writing, also? I was going to do WS, but if I do LL7, and it includes what WS would, I don't want to do both. If LL7 does include writing, would it be easy to skip that part? (Sorry, I had this all worded better and my page got refreshed and I lost it. Now I can't seem to find how to say what I did. :closedeyes: ) Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) No, we haven't done anything with literary terms yet. Does LL7 teach writing, also? I was going to do WS, but if I do LL7, and it includes what WS would, I don't want to do both. If LL7 does include writing, would it be easy to skip that part? (Sorry, I had this all worded better and my page got refreshed and I lost it. Now I can't seem to find how to say what I did. :closedeyes: ) Pam No, LL does not teach writing -- just has a 1 page "mini-writing lesson" at the end of each of the 8 units, followed by a choice of longer writing assignment. Yes, you definitely want something for teaching writing. We did read the mini-writing lessons as quick "bites" of review when we got to the end of a unit, but only did some of the end-of-unit writing assignments as a nice little break from the spine writing program we were doing. So yes, you'll definitely want a writing program to go with it. You didn't specifically ask, but I'm guessing you're trying to figure out how much time LL would take… Overall, you will very likely finish LL7 before the school year is out. We did all of the readings aloud together "popcorn style" ("you read a page I read a page") so we could discuss while we read, which is slower than solo reading. (We did aloud/together reading as DS has stealth dyslexia and wasn't ready to jump up into the older/Victorian vocabulary, writing with special jargon or accents, and the Victorian-style complex sentences of several of the works in LL7.) AND, we only did LL7 4 days a week, and we still finished a few weeks before the end of our 36-week school year. On a daily basis, plan on 40-50 minutes for reading, the teaching info, and the work pages (which put the literary element discussed into practice, plus there are exercises in beginning literary analysis.) We would read for about 30 minutes, then take 15-20 minutes to go over 2-3 pages at a time of the literary lesson teaching info in the student guide (which can be done solo by the student), and then DS would do 1 work page (occasional 1/2 page if it was one of the rare extended exercises). The other nice thing about LL7 is that several of the works will fit in very well thematically with your AtB study -- American works include: - The Adventures of Tom Sawyer (Twain) -- novel - Story of My Life (Helen Keller) -- autobiography - "Bride Comes to Yellow Sky" (Crane) -- short story CLE From the sample of the student reader and teacher guide, it looks like the literature that CLE7 covers stories written by CLE rather than works and excerpts by traditional/classic authors). You can also see the scope and sequence of what literary elements and activities are included in CLE7 by scrolling half way down on that linked page to the chart entitled Sunrise Reading 700 - Road Less Traveled. PP I have only used some of the high school guides, not middle school. I found them to be rather hit-and-miss, depending on who wrote the guide as to how in-depth and useful it was. All of the PP guides I purchased focused heavily on thematic ideas and comparing with Scripture, but there is very little in the way of introducing literary elements or guiding the student into understanding HOW to dig deeper into a work. So if that is the goal this year, I'd say LL or CLE would fit your need better. My guess is that you might consider using 1-2 of the PP guides that go with 1-2 of the works in AtB's Lit. to get a little more out of those works -- Across Five Aprils or Amos Fortune are the only 2 PP guides at a middle school level that match up with the AtB Lit. works. Whatever program you choose you might consider also doing Figuratively Speaking, which covers 40 literary elements. You can knock that out in a year by doing 1 or 2 literary elements per week, aloud together -- only takes about 10 minutes per lesson to read the definition, the paragraph from classic lit. that shows the example, and to orally do the page of exercises/activities to practice finding/using that literary element. I do recommend doing it aloud/together so you can discuss as you go, both learn the literary devices, and then can use the rest of the week seeing if you can find that element at work in whatever literature you are reading. There are some optional extension activities, which you can choose to do or not, if you have extra time. We did Figuratively Speaking alongside of LL7, and they worked together very nicely, with LL7 going into more depth on just a few elements, and Figuratively Speaking giving us an overview of the "whole toolbox" of literary elements that you'll see/discuss in high school literature. BEST of luck in finding what is the best fit for your family! :) Warmest regards, Lori D. Edited June 25, 2016 by Lori D. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wehave8 Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share Posted June 25, 2016 Thank you, Lori D. Gives me a lot better insight on what each program is like. Now, to take some time to let it all sink in. :) Pam 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloradomomof5 Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Love the idea of FS alongs side LL. I have my 8th doing LL and my 9th doing illuminating lit. Felt like both would be light compared to what we have done in the past but needed something independent. If we add and they bring me and expanse or two of each... Nice idea!! Who makes FS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Who makes FS? Figuratively Speaking is a Creative Teaching Press publication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 I used LL7 and was really pleased with it as a beginning to literary analysis. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wehave8 Posted July 14, 2016 Author Share Posted July 14, 2016 (edited) I used LL7 and was really pleased with it as a beginning to literary analysis. This is what I chose to go with. I got FS to have on hand if we choose to do some of that, too. I hear LL is light, but I think it will be just right for 7th grade. I just want him to get exposure to work into high school material when the time comes. Pam Edited July 14, 2016 by wehave8 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 This is what I chose to go with. I got FS to have on hand if we choose to do some of that, too. I hear LL is light, but I think it will be just right for 7th grade. I just want him to get exposure to work into high school material when the time comes. This was our experience with LL -- it is only "lite" for those who have already been doing a bit of formal Lit. study before. Our DSs had not had formal Lit. studies previously, so it was a great fit -- enjoyable selection of Lit., a wide variety of types of Lit. for exposure, work pages (we skipped the "busy work" crossword and word search) that were helpful in practicing using the literary elements and beginning analysis, and very gentle informational text written to the student (nice, informal tone) for teaching about literary elements, literature topics, and beginning analysis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 This was our experience with LL -- it is only "lite" for those who have already been doing a bit of formal Lit. study before. Our DSs had not had formal Lit. studies previously, so it was a great fit -- enjoyable selection of Lit., a wide variety of types of Lit. for exposure, work pages (we skipped the "busy work" crossword and word search) that were helpful in practicing using the literary elements and beginning analysis, and very gentle informational text written to the student (nice, informal tone) for teaching about literary elements, literature topics, and beginning analysis. My boys were big readers, so the other thing that we altered was the scheduling of the reading, which seemed to go on and on. I ignore the schedule in general, actually. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 I'll throw another option into the mix. Our co-op used it last year in a class that ds wasn't in, and everyone loved it. I'll be using it in 8th. https://www.memoriapress.com/curriculum/literature-and-poetry/poetry-short-stories-american-literature-set/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wehave8 Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 I'll throw another option into the mix. Our co-op used it last year in a class that ds wasn't in, and everyone loved it. I'll be using it in 8th. https://www.memoriapress.com/curriculum/literature-and-poetry/poetry-short-stories-american-literature-set/ Thanks! Just what I need. :) Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaChicken Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I recall reading about a middle school lit program based entirely on short stories, but I can't find it. Does anyone know anything about it? I'm sure there was some Ray Bradbury in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wehave8 Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 Now that I got LL7, I think I'll send it back and get CLE 7 and add a few classics besides. We will be doing Writing Strands for writing, so we'd be skipping what composition is in LL. I looked at the TOC of LL, which I don't know how I overlooked this before, and this is what they cover for Literary Lessons: Ch. 1: Plot line Ch. 2: Plot Line in a Novel Ch. 3: Introduction to Poetry and Rhyme Ch. 4: Creativity Ch. 5: Dialogue Ch. 6: Autobiography Ch. 7: Sound in Poetry Ch. 8: The Character Sketch Okay, I wasn't impressed, but after I wrote it out it didn't seem too bad, but I still think CLE will fit the bill better for us, even if I was wanting 'light' for literature this year. Oh, how I need to make a choice NOW! Any suggestions or opinions???? Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 (edited) Now that I got LL7, I think I'll send it back and get CLE 7 and add a few classics besides. We will be doing Writing Strands for writing, so we'd be skipping what composition is in LL. I looked at the TOC of LL, which I don't know how I overlooked this before, and this is what they cover for Literary Lessons: Ch. 1: Plot line Ch. 2: Plot Line in a Novel Ch. 3: Introduction to Poetry and Rhyme Ch. 4: Creativity Ch. 5: Dialogue Ch. 6: Autobiography Ch. 7: Sound in Poetry Ch. 8: The Character Sketch Yes, total contents of LL7: unit 1 = "Rikki-Tikki-Tavi" (short story) literary lesson: plot line mini writing lesson: openings unit 2 = The Adventures of Tom Sawyer (realistic novel) literary lesson: plot line in a novel mini writing lesson: outlines unit 3 = poetry unit -- 7 poems literary lesson: rhyme mini writing lesson: limerick and haiku unit 4 = Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (fantasy novel) literary lesson: creativitiy mini writing lesson: nonce words unit 5 = "The Bride Comes to Yellow Sky" (short story) literary lesson: saying it with style mini writing lesson: writing about yourself unit 6 = The Story of My Life (autobiography) literary lesson: autobiography mini writing lesson: brainstorming unit 7 = poetry unit -- 6 poems literary lesson: sound mini writing lesson: cinquain and the list poem unit 8 = All Creatures Great and Small (realistic/humorous novel) literary lesson: character sketch mini writing lesson: choosing a topic … Okay, I wasn't impressed, but after I wrote it out it didn't seem too bad, but I still think CLE will fit the bill better for us, even if I was wanting 'light' for literature this year. Oh, how I need to make a choice NOW! Any suggestions or opinions???? I'd suggest getting your hands on CLE and do an in-depth side-by-side comparison of the two programs to decide which is the better fit for your family and will best accomplish your goals for Literature this year, and then send back the one that is not the better fit. Just to get you started, here's a beginning comparison: CLE: - uses a reader book of story selections written for CLE rather than classic literature** - stories are Christian moral/teaching examples (7th grade program = "examples of others whose choices affected their lives") - worksheet-based** - covers more literary elements/Literature topics, but in less depth** - designed to take half a year (if done daily), OR, a full school year if done at a light pace (2-3 lessons/week) -- can't see inside the workbooks to see how much/how little teaching info there is or to estimate how long it would take for a lesson ** = could get a few in-depth Lit. guides to go deep with a few classic Literature selections LL7 - uses classic Lit. -- 8 units (3 novels = 1 long, 1 medium, 1 short; 1 autobiography (short-ish), 2 short stories, 2 poetry units (6-8 poems per unit)) - student guide -- 6-10 pages of informal, written-to-the-student info on the literary lesson / literary device and how it works - student work pages -- 8-10 work pages practicing the lit. lesson, or guided beginning lit. analysis on a paragraph from a classic work of Lit - covers fewer literary elements/Literature topics, but in more depth - mini-writing lesson and end-of chapter choice of longer writing assignment ideas - takes about 40-50 min/day (read the Lit for 30 min., do the student guide or work pages for 10-20 min), 4x/week - scheduled for 36-weeks, but takes more like 26-32 weeks depending on how fast of a reader you are ** = could get Figuratively Speaking and cover more literary elements One other option: do both programs. Do it daily, and CLE will take 1 semester, and then pick-and-choose units from LL7 to do in the other semester. Or, alternate units of LL and CLE. And you could either drop entirely, OR, finish whatever units of LL7 not done next year in the following year. BEST of luck in finding the best Lit. option for your family! :) Warmest regards, Lori D. Edited July 15, 2016 by Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeljenn Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 (edited) Oh man... I am dealing with this same decision!! I am going to go with CLE 7 and add in a few novel studies. I know that the stories in CLE are not "classic" but I love how they are character building stories. I also think that having an easier, smaller story will help my dd focus on learning the literary elements without it being too difficult. We are also using CLE LA 7 which includes a full novel study, so I think we will be good in the literature department. **edited to add** I also wanted to say that my daughter is NOT a reader. Every once in a while she will find a good book or a series that she can't put down, but it is very rare. My thoughts were to just giver her a reading program that teaches literary elements without having to read too many books right now. We did Sonlight last year and it pretty much wore her out with all the books she had to read. She read them, but only really likes a few. Edited July 16, 2016 by 4pillars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wehave8 Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 CLE: - uses a reader book of story selections written for CLE rather than classic literature** - stories are Christian moral/teaching examples (7th grade program = "examples of others whose choices affected their lives") - worksheet-based** - covers more literary elements/Literature topics, but in less depth** - designed to take half a year (if done daily), OR, a full school year if done at a light pace (2-3 lessons/week) -- can't see inside the workbooks to see how much/how little teaching info there is or to estimate how long it would take for a lesson ** = could get a few in-depth Lit. guides to go deep with a few classic Literature selections LL7 - uses classic Lit. -- 8 units (3 novels = 1 long, 1 medium, 1 short; 1 autobiography (short-ish), 2 short stories, 2 poetry units (6-8 poems per unit)) - student guide -- 6-10 pages of informal, written-to-the-student info on the literary lesson / literary device and how it works - student work pages -- 8-10 work pages practicing the lit. lesson, or guided beginning lit. analysis on a paragraph from a classic work of Lit - covers fewer literary elements/Literature topics, but in more depth - mini-writing lesson and end-of chapter choice of longer writing assignment ideas - takes about 40-50 min/day (read the Lit for 30 min., do the student guide or work pages for 10-20 min), 4x/week - scheduled for 36-weeks, but takes more like 26-32 weeks depending on how fast of a reader you are ** = could get Figuratively Speaking and cover more literary elements Lori D., What makes LL Literature Topics 'more in depth than CLE? I thought by reviews I've read, CLE covered them more thoroughly. Interesting. I'll have to read up more. :) Pam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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