New to homeschooling - R&S English

[bfw0729]

Someone I know is considering homeschooling her kids next year. Kids will be in 6th and 7th grade. The question is regarding which Rod and Staff English book for them? They have had an average public school education - no real sentence diagramming or explicit grammar instruction. Would you start them off with R&S 5 or 6 or go even two levels below grade level?

 

The mother wants the kids to be very independent with English and to essentially self-teach themselves the book. Is this realistic with R&S English at this level?

[MyLittleBears]

You can put kids right at grade level prior to the 5th book. For older students the 5th book is a good starting point because it starts from the very beginning.  And yes, it is very independent. They are for classroom use so they need to be modified a bit for home, assigning maybe half the problems in a section, etc. Work is completed in a separate notebook. You can skip the writing portions if they are using something else for writing, but the instruction in these books is very good. hths!

[2_girls_mommy]

agree with above.  Mine have used R&S from the beginning and have a strong grammar base as well as years of Latin under their belts.  We still are each a year behind grade level in R&S just because we take it slowly.  It is thorough enough at that grade level even for strong grammar students. 

[SilverMoon]

With the must be independent requirement I'd put the 6th grader in 5 and the 7th grader in 6. But I think that's asking a LOT of a kid who's new to homeschooling (ie not being spoon fed) and sturdier English programs.

 

My ideal would be Mom teaching and working actively with both kids in the 6 book. If they did the exercises primarily orally with instant corrections she'd find it would take less time from their day and they'd be learning the concepts more efficiently. Then they could more easily be independent the next year.

Edited May 25, 2016 by SilverMoon

[gratitude]

Rod and Staff recommends that older students new to their program, without extensive grammar, start with book 5. Book 5 reviews books 2 - 4 fairly quickly and then starts new material 1/2 way through the book.

 

I wouldn't put a student new to diagramming and complex grammar in book 6.

 

It is a fabulous English program. I have been very pleased.

Edited May 25, 2016 by gratitude

[SilverMoon]

I'd go with Analytical Grammar before I'd hand a 5 book to a seventh grade child who just went through a major educational and social change. There's no grade on the cover, and the optional DVDs would make it more feasible to get done all on their own.

[gratitude]

I know Highschool students who have used book 6 for grammar study. Heart of Dakota recommends books 7 & 8 for Highschool grammar study. I personally like them at grade level, but the diagramming is extensive and starts in grade 3 and increases from that point forwards.

 

Susan Wise Bauer recommends on her writing talks, which are exceptional, Rod and Staff for grammar.

 

This information is not to start a debate. It is for the mere purpose of giving the original poster additional information to help her in making an educated decision.

 

Prayers for your choices and transition from school to home.

[bfw0729]

I really appreciate all this great information. I will definitely share it with her. She is willing to be involved with math, but she is nervous about grammar and writing. She wants those subjects to be student-driven.

 

I looked up Analytical Grammar and seems interesting. I have never heard of it. So this program is done independently and considered a "good" program?

 

 

[bfw0729]

Bump - looking for more input and possibly trying a different grammar curriculum?

[OneStepAtATime]

The new IEW Fix-It Grammar would be easier to implement if she is nervous and needs them to be more independent.  Very short lessons, too.  15 minutes a day, 4 days a week.  They could both start with book one.  It isn't based on grade levels but building blocks, so there wouldn't be the issue of a student feeling they were doing something too below their grade level.  You build a foundation with book one and add to that with each addition book.  There are 6 books and they definitely ramp up with each level but the program does it so gently that you don't really notice.   And at least with DD the information is translating into her writing. 

 

If you buy the TM you get access to the electronic version of the student book for free so she could print out copies for both students for just the price of the TM and the paper and ink.  Each would have their own notebook.  I would recommend that she still sit with them for the first lesson of each week and check their lesson at the and of each day to confirm understanding but the TM lays everything out very clearly for her to discuss things with them, check their work, etc.  It is VERY easy to follow.  And as I said, the program starts out incredibly gently but continues to ramp up with each level.  It might be better for all of them to start slow, just one lesson a day, 4 days a week.  Once they get their homeschooling legs under them if they decided they wanted a faster pace they could easily do two books a year without the lessons increasing in time all that much.  Shift to two lessons a day, 5 days a week and you would essentially be completing 2 1/2 weeks worth of lessons every 5 days.  It would still only take about 30 minutes a day.

 

I would recommend starting with book one.

 

http://iew.com/fix

 

IEW has a 100% money back guarantee but I don't remember if that is just for the primary writing program or if that includes their grammar program, too.

[Mrs Twain]

I use both R&S English and Fix It.  I know everyone says that Fix It is a complete grammar program, but I can't understand why they say that.  R&S English is a little quirky and old fashioned, but it is absolutely clear, concise, and straightforward in explaining grammar. Fix It is not written that way at all.  Fix It's exercises are good for some purposes, but they are not what I would use exclusively to teach my children grammar.  I would definitely recommend R&S over Fix It for kids who have little grammar background.

 

Having used levels 2-7, I agree about starting in the R&S 5 book.  Don't worry at all about the number on the cover.  R&S English is a very advanced program IMO. 

[OneStepAtATime]

I use both R&S English and Fix It.  I know everyone says that Fix It is a complete grammar program, but I can't understand why they say that.  R&S English is a little quirky and old fashioned, but it is absolutely clear, concise, and straightforward in explaining grammar. Fix It is not written that way at all.  Fix It's exercises are good for some purposes, but they are not what I would use exclusively to teach my children grammar.  I would definitely recommend R&S over Fix It for kids who have little grammar background.

 

Having used levels 2-7, I agree about starting in the R&S 5 book.  Don't worry at all about the number on the cover.  R&S English is a very advanced program IMO. 

I'm not disagreeing with you regarding R&S being a good fit for this situation because it may very well be.  I did want to ask you about your response regarding Fix-it.  Are you using the new or the old Fix-It?  The old was not a complete program.  The new one is.  It does not do diagramming but it does cover an extensive amount of grammar.  I know some are militant about diagramming but diagramming is not necessary for everyone. Fix-it can look light at first because it starts out very gently and the lessons are short.  It uses a less in your face approach but it is still a full grammar program.  By book 6 it is covering a LOT of grammar.  Have you seen the higher levels of the new Fix-It?

[Mrs Twain]

I'm not disagreeing with you regarding R&S being a good fit for this situation because it may very well be. I did want to ask you about your response regarding Fix-it. Are you using the new or the old Fix-It? The old was not a complete program. The new one is. It does not do diagramming but it does cover an extensive amount of grammar. I know some are militant about diagramming but diagramming is not necessary for everyone. Fix-it can look light at first because it starts out very gently and the lessons are short. It uses a less in your face approach but it is still a full grammar program. By book 6 it is covering a LOT of grammar. Have you seen the higher levels of the new Fix-It?

I have used the old ones in the past, but now I am using the new Fix It books. My kids are currently in books 2 and 3 of the new series. Honestly I don't see why people think it is such a wonderful stand-alone program. Feel free to disagree with me, but my opinion is that R&S is much better for explicit grammar instruction.

[Guest]

Hake Grammar and Writing- can be used at grade level. Each one is pretty basic to begin with. 

 

Honestly, at those ages with high school coming up, I would focus more on writing instruction than grammar and sentence diagramming. Essentials in Writing would be a good choice because it does cover gramamr needed for writing. I would have her call EIW to discuss her kids and go with their rec's. for placement.

 

Edited May 29, 2016 by Paradox5

[PeachyDoodle]

We have used R&S since we started homeschooling in 3rd, and dd has used it independently with no problems since that time (well, unless you count things like not reading directions, but those are habit-training issues, not problems with the curriculum). I think it is an excellent program, both in terms of its instruction and thoroughness, and in terms of its ability to be student-driven. DD was in public school before and had little to no formal grammar instruction.

 

We do not do all the exercises in each lesson -- I assign them based on what dd needs to practice (at this point, usually just the new material, but the review exercises are excellent for students who need more practice) -- and we do none of the writing lessons since we cover those elsewhere. If your friend is nervous about teaching writing, I would recommend assigning those lessons; they are very solid and easy to follow. She can adjust the topics to coincide with things the students are studying in history or science if she likes. I like that R&S includes things like dictionary skills and using a Bible concordance and even how to properly answer the telephone, which I might neglect otherwise. Other programs may do the same, but I only have experience with R&S.

 

I personally think that any 5th or 6th grader who reads on grade level should be able to do R&S fairly independently. The teacher's manual also gives good instructional information, board work, etc., if that helps your friend feel more comfortable assisting her children when they need help. I would agree that there's no harm in dropping back a grade level, although many of the topics in R&S are reviewed from year to year and don't assume previous exposure. We've just completed book 5, and the diagramming in that level was not overly cumbersome and was introduced slowly over the course of the year. (Again, lots of review from previous years.)