New MATH help for 5th grader

[LAmom]

My son is currently doing CLE Math 500 and is on book 509.  We switched last year from MM because he needed more review and I also thought spiral would be better for him.

 

Here is the situation:  He completes the new lessons with me.  He then does the big review.  Every day he gets the same types of problems wrong.  So, in the past I would go over the ones he got wrong and walk through how to do it.  Explaining it again.  He would then get the answer correct.  But, he continues to get most of his problems wrong, generally the same section as the day before.  Yes, I have reviewed it, done it with him, had him explain it to me, etc.  Generally, on the third or fourth try he gets it correct.

 

That has been the pattern for the last few months.  Continually going over the ones he got wrong and redoing them.  

 

Why does he continue to get the SAME ones wrong?  And it is not that I need to explain it again, review it again, etc.  We have done all of that. What am I missing?  Do I need to start all over for 5th grade?  Maybe start over at Math Mammoth beginning 5th grade and see if he is just missing some basic concepts?  He needs a lot of hand holding, which I have done.  When will he just be able to get the problems right the first time?  

 

I am so frustrated.  It doesn't make sense to me for him to keep pushing through if I see no improvement.  I can't move him to 6th grade math if he can't even pass the section in his book that is review.  

 

Any suggestions?  :(

[mommy5]

So, it is the same type of problems he is getting wrong each day?  Could you just do some sort of remediation work on those types of problems (like fractions, for instance) ... I recently tried A+ Interactive mini courses for one of my sons and I'm about to add it in for my 11 year old.  If it is only one or two types of problems he is missing I would not do the entire 500 series of CLE again...

[kateingr]

:grouphug: Hang in there. Explaining the same thing over and over is no fun at all.

 

What kinds of problems is he getting wrong over and over? It might give us a better sense of what's going on if you shared a few examples. 

[J&JMom]

Frustration is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. You need to change up the approach. There are tons of resources online to teach math concepts. When my non-mathy fifth grader gets 'stuck' I throw everything but the kitchen sink at him.  First, he misses the problem in homework, lets say. I'll reteach the concept using that problem, assign additional problems (usually IXL - a subscription service, but can do 20 problems a day for free - fabulous site as an endless worksheet generator. A great thing about IXL is if he/she gets a problem wrong, it will explain step by step the solution. And you still work the topic again after achieving a 100. I love IXL.). Then quiz the next day on the concept. Still lost? The try Khan academy and do those problems. Still lost, search for online math textbook (you can find free resources by googling),use their videos, examples,and quizzes. Rinse and repeat.  It took my guy several cycles to get fractions and still need to assign a refresher IXL medal to keep it in his brain. Here are some sites:

 

IXL.com  - first 20 a day are free:  https://www.ixl.com/math/grade-5

Public school textbook site: videos, games, quizzes.:

   http://www.mhschool.com/math/2009/tx/student/grade5/index.html

   http://www.mhschool.com/math/mathconnects/grade5/sg5c1lesson1.html

   https://www.eduplace.com/math/mw/g_5.html

 

Good Luck!

Edited April 25, 2016 by J&JMom

[Paige]

If he gets it right by the 3rd or 4th time, I wouldn't sweat. That's the point of CLE's spiral. They really don't teach enough or give enough practice to expect the average kid to get it right on the first or maybe even 2nd try.

[Storygirl]

How is he doing on the tests and quizzes? If he is passing those, that is a good sign. You say that he can get it right on the third or fourth try.  After that, can he do another of the same type of problem and get it correct?

 

I understand the frustration. Math is hard here at our house. With CLE, my kids would get many things wrong in the practice and review sections, and I would work through every incorrect problem. Reworking the incorrect problems is where the learning happens for my kids -- seeing where they went wrong and trying it again.

 

I think with math, getting things right on the first try isn't a reasonable goal. It takes time and practice to learn the concepts; some kids need more practice than others. If you can use additional resources to review the things that are troublesome, that might be helpful.

[LAmom]

Thanks everyone for the help and encouragement! Changing it up is a good (and obvious) thing. I will look into using some Khan to explain things and try using MM for the concepts he is struggling with.

 

His tests are the same--filled with red pen. It is either silly calculation mistakes or just using wrong method to answer or simply forgetting how to do it! He has struggled a lot with dividing fractions, decimals and rounding to a certain place, and division of 3 or more numbers. He can't figure out how to line up decimals even though I feel like I explained that sufficiently.

 

Sounds like I need more patience and more review. I will have to find review problems to work on with him. Maybe put a hold on new concepts for now? It has been ultimately frustrating because it takes him about 1 hour to do his work and then we spend another 30-60 minutes re-doing it.

Edited April 26, 2016 by LAmom

[kateingr]

Thanks everyone for the help and encouragement! Changing it up is a good (and obvious) thing. I will look into using some Khan to explain things and try using MM for the concepts he is struggling with.

 

His tests are the same--filled with red pen. It is either silly calculation mistakes or just using wrong method to answer or simply forgetting how to do it! He has struggled a lot with dividing fractions, decimals and rounding to a certain place, and division of 3 or more numbers. He can't figure out how to line up decimals even though I feel like I explained that sufficiently.

 

Sounds like I need more patience and more review. I will have to find review problems to work on with him. Maybe put a hold on new concepts for now? It has been ultimately frustrating because it takes him about 1 hour to do his work and then we spend another 30-60 minutes re-doing it.

 

Perhaps he's not quite understanding the why behind the how? For a lot of kids, the procedures just slip away from them when they don't have a strong idea of why the procedures work. CLE has some real strengths--I personally adore the language arts books--but conceptual math teaching isn't one of them. The bite-size introduction of the new topics can make it hard for big-picture kids to see how it all fits together.

 

Using Khan to help him understand the concepts behind the procedures he's been learning sounds like a great plan. The Key to Decimal books and Key to Fractions books are other good books for helping kids develop a solid understanding of those concepts. Using some manipulatives could be helpful, too. If you have base-ten blocks, using the 100-flat as 1, the 10-rod as a tenth, and the unit cubes as hundredths are great for helping kids develop decimal number sense and understand why the procedures for the operations work. 

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

Perhaps he's not quite understanding the why behind the how? For a lot of kids, the procedures just slip away from them when they don't have a strong idea of why the procedures work. 

 

Yes!  My kids (and dh) all need to know the whys in math and science.  My younger kids are using Singapore PM and my oldest is using Beast Academy and Jousting Armadillos.  I also still use manipulatives if needed with the 4th grader on down for new concepts that make more sense when visualized or just make sure to word discussions so that they whys come through with the hows.