Pursue Testing?

[ReadingMama1214]

I didn't post this in accelerated learners, because I thought I might get a wider range of answers here.

 

My daughter is 4. she's pretty intelligent, but I would hesitate to call her gifted. She is not a prodigy or profoundly gifted. I had looked into giftedness in regards to her long attention span and advanced fine motor skills. She is 4 and can write well (needs help spelling), draw detailed pictures, started sounding out words at 3y10ml, and can do simple math. However, I see these things as results of her personality and interest in academics. I also know of other kids who are gifted and much beyond this ability.

 

However, a few people have recently suggested we look into testing for giftedness. Their suggestions are not based off of DDs academic abilities, but more of her sensitivities and personality. A few personality traights that led them to suggest testing:

-emotional intensity: sensitive to sounds, clothing, gets extremely upset over these sensitivities. But they're not consistent enough to be labeled SPD. Sensitivity come and goes.

-perfectionism: she is a self driven perfectionist in regards to drawing, writing, ability to do certain things (build a project, ballet, ride a bike). She has pretty severe tantrums over her perfectionism regardless of our encouragement and allowing her to see our mistakes.

-long attention span from an early age

-worrier. She's been afraid of growing up and dying since 3 (perhaps younger)

 

The only reason I would seek testing would be to better understand her emotional intensity and perfectionism. I did take a pre-screen for a gifted development center that local and it did suggest that she was gifted. I struggle because I do not see her as being exceptionally different than her peers

[nature girl]

I'm sure you'd get more responses if you asked about the benefits of testing in AL. I don't have real experience, but my DD (who's probably just garden-variety bright) exactly matches all of your daughter's "negative" traits (and also taught herself to read early and intuits math skills easily). So since nobody else has responded yet I'll give my (probably conflicting) thoughts.

 

I think first I'd just ask what you want to accomplish from the testing...Just to understand the intensity and perfectionism? Well...I guess testing might help you understand what was behind the issues, but is that understanding worth the cost? (Maybe it would give you techniques to help deal with those issues, that may be a question for AL.) On the other hand, if you want to know so that you can help her reach her fullest potential, or even just for your own curiosity, then other than cost there's no real reason not to. And...from my personal perspective, we pursued a neuropsych eval last year--without IQ testing--and confirming that there were reasons behind some of my DD's behavioral issues (she's been diagnosed with ADHD), that it was actual differences in her brain and not just her being a difficult child or mistakes I'd made in parenting, really helped me to parent her better and more sympathetically, to meet her needs.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Anna's Mom

[ReadingMama1214]

I'm sure you'd get more responses if you asked about the benefits of testing in AL. I don't have real experience, but my DD (who's probably just garden-variety bright) exactly matches all of your daughter's "negative" traits (and also taught herself to read early and intuits math skills easily). So since nobody else has responded yet I'll give my (probably conflicting) thoughts.

 

I think first I'd just ask what you want to accomplish from the testing...Just to understand the intensity and perfectionism? Well...I guess testing might help you understand what was behind the issues, but is that understanding worth the cost? (Maybe it would give you techniques to help deal with those issues, that may be a question for AL.) On the other hand, if you want to know so that you can help her reach her fullest potential, or even just for your own curiosity, then other than cost there's no real reason not to. And...from my personal perspective, we pursued a neuropsych eval last year--without IQ testing--and confirming that there were reasons behind some of my DD's behavioral issues (she's been diagnosed with ADHD), that it was actual differences in her brain and not just her being a difficult child or mistakes I'd made in parenting, really helped me to parent her better and more sympathetically, to meet her needs.

Thanks! I might post there as well.

 

My daughter doesn't seem to demonstrate symptoms of ADHD or a learning disability. I'm fairly familiar with them since my Master's is in psych and I haven't seen any red flags beyond perfectionism and emotional intensity.

 

I don't know how testing would benefit academically. Schools here do testing, but I've heard it's different than private testing and less comprehensive. She's only in pre-k though and won't start K until 2017/18. I don't think schools provide testing for pre-k here. Just K and up. I don't think testing would Change our schooling choices. We plan to send her to a classics school that does have a gifted specialist, but not gifted classes.

 

I gues the only consideration I would make based on testing was whether her perfectionism is worth keeping her home for. She does not perform or exhibit a skill ph locally until it's perfect. For example, her pre-k teacher has no idea she can read or do basic math. They do standard assessments to gauge where the class is at in order to teach to the kids skills. My daughter didn't test well. I think this will resolve, but I'm not sure since she's so young still.

 

I also don't know the cost associated with this center. I do not plan to pay an excessive amount for testing.

[nature girl]

Oh, I wasn't suggesting she had ADHD! You mentioned she has a long attention span. :) I was just telling you how we benefited from testing and knowing there was a reason behind DD's behaviors.

 

There are ways to work on perfectionism, and that's also a good question for the AL group. I know there are books on giftedness that discuss how to deal with all the issues you're seeing. And for the worrying, I'd strongly recommend this book (probably available from your library.) Some of it may be a little above her, but we used it successfully last year with a little tailoring.

[ReadingMama1214]

Oh, I wasn't suggesting she had ADHD! You mentioned she has a long attention span. :) I was just telling you how we benefited from testing and knowing there was a reason behind DD's behaviors.

 

There are ways to work on perfectionism, and that's also a good question for the AL group. I know there are books on giftedness that discuss how to deal with all the issues you're seeing. And for the worrying, I'd strongly recommend this book (probably available from your library.) Some of it may be a little above her, but we used it successfully last year with a little tailoring.

Oh, I didn't think you were suggesting it. I was just saying I didn't think she had other issues that testing would address.

 

Thanks for the resources!

I have read some threads on perfectionism and have tried the suggested tips. However, they haven't seemed to help yet. But, I'm guessing it take a lot of work to actually see progress.

[Arcadia]

I have read some threads on perfectionism and have tried the suggested tips. However, they haven't seemed to help yet. But, I'm guessing it take a lot of work to actually see progress.

Perfectionism without anxiety is a lot easier than people (kids & adults) who has perfectionism and anxiety co-existing.

 

My kids insurance would pay for autism, adhd, spd testing but there is no clear cut diagnosis of perfectionism that I know of or that my kids' pediatrician could suggest.

 

Perfectionism doesn't go away. It is more about acknowledging and coping with it. That is hard for a child as young as your child is now. My perfectionist kid doesn't even think he is perfectionistic because he isn't all the time. I had a vent and advice needed thread in AL because of his perfectionistic strings teachers :lol:

 

The cost of testing other than what insurance covers put us off IQ testing until kids are much older. Besides we read tests are more accurate after 8 years old and we had no need to get results early.

 

My kids public school does not have a gifted specialist but their teachers are used to gifted kids. So that was very useful since the teachers are with my kids most of the time other than music and PE. They are also patient and great at testing kids like my oldest who doesn't want to talk all the time and my youngest who can be totally silent at times. Their kindergarten tests were almost all written other than the reading aloud tests.

 

ETA:

Oldest was the only one who didn't attend preschool. So his cohort of 120 mostly read well and write simple short sentences from day one of K.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Arcadia

[kbutton]

There are ranges of gifted IQs. You don't have to be all that far over the line to be gifted and need different support than neurotypical kids while also not being like an exceptionally or profoundly gifted kid. Also, not all kids wear their smarts the same way.

 

Sensory and anxiety can be two sides of the same coin. You might have more sensory than you realize--some kids are inconsistent in displaying genuine difficulties until they are in __________ circumstance. Sometimes they are using that powerful cognition to govern the difficult areas, and what you see as minor or inconsistent is where their control over the difficulty is failing and something is squeezing through the armor. If so, it's often going to get harder and harder to keep things all together as they mature and face higher demands.

 

If you get testing, I recommend finding someone familiar with 2e even though you don't think you are looking at LDs. They often look deeper at things while not pathologizing gifted quirks. They see a lot of sensory stuff as well.

[ReadingMama1214]

There are ranges of gifted IQs. You don't have to be all that far over the line to be gifted and need different support than neurotypical kids while also not being like an exceptionally or profoundly gifted kid. Also, not all kids wear their smarts the same way.

 

Sensory and anxiety can be two sides of the same coin. You might have more sensory than you realize--some kids are inconsistent in displaying genuine difficulties until they are in __________ circumstance. Sometimes they are using that powerful cognition to govern the difficult areas, and what you see as minor or inconsistent is where their control over the difficulty is failing and something is squeezing through the armor. If so, it's often going to get harder and harder to keep things all together as they mature and face higher demands.

 

If you get testing, I recommend finding someone familiar with 2e even though you don't think you are looking at LDs. They often look deeper at things while not pathologizing gifted quirks. They see a lot of sensory stuff as well.

Thank you for the information! The place we are looking at does a variety of testing and emphasizes that they look into 2e possibilities. Their testing seems comprehensive.

[Roseto27]

I honestly thought when reading your description of your daughter that it sounded very much like my oldest son who is 2e. He was diagnosed with Asperger's and profoundly gifted when he was four. My son had perfectionism, anxiety, spd traits, a very long attention span, wonderful ability to draw and write, and emotional intensity.

 

When we went in for his 12 month check-up, I took along a list of the 127 words that he was using. He taught himself to read at 27 months, and he wasn't just memorizing words, but actually sounding them out/decoding. He memorized not only the names of the planets in our solar system (including all the dwarf planets), but also tons of detailed information about each. He was capable of very deep conversations at the ages of 3 and 4 and people were constantly commenting on the depth of his understanding of complex topics and situations.

 

When we decided to get him assessed, we knew that he was gifted but had no clue about the Asperger's. None of the online checklists took into account the hyperlexia or high expressive vocabulary. And when I had asked about the possibility of autism at his 15 month checkup (bc of the perfectionism, emotional intensity, and spd), his pediatrician said very confidently that he was too verbal and too social for autism and he seems to be "just" gifted.

 

So, that said, I enthusiastically second the recommendation to find a testing facility that understands 2e traits in girls (yes, it matters).

 

Also, one last bit of encouragement for you: I went to see Temple Grandin speak last year and she said that she's often asked to speak at GT conferences in addition to the ASD conferences and that there's more overlap there than many realize with regard to the HFA/Asperger's group and the gifted kids. It's the same kids, just different books on the confrences' book tables. ;)

Edited March 31, 2016 by Roseto27

[ReadingMama1214]

I honestly thought when reading your description of your daughter that it sounded very much like my oldest son who is 2e. He was diagnosed with Asperger's and profoundly gifted when he was four. My son had perfectionism, anxiety, spd traits, a very long attention span, wonderful ability to draw and write, and emotional intensity.

 

When we went in for his 12 month check-up, I took along a list of the 127 words that he was using. He taught himself to read at 27 months, and he wasn't just memorizing words, but actually sounding them out/decoding. He memorized not only the names of the planets in our solar system (including all the dwarf planets), but also tons of detailed information about each. He was capable of very deep conversations at the ages of 3 and 4 and people were constantly commenting on the depth of his understanding of complex topics and situations.

 

When we decided to get him assessed, we knew that he was gifted but had no clue about the Asperger's. None of the online checklists took into account the hyperlexia or high expressive vocabulary. And when I had asked about the possibility of autism at his 15 month checkup (bc of the perfectionism, emotional intensity, and spd), his pediatrician said very confidently that he was too verbal and too social for autism and he seems to be "just" gifted.

 

So, that said, I enthusiastically second the recommendation to find a testing facility that understands 2e traits in girls (yes, it matters).

 

Also, one last bit of encouragement for you: I went to see Temple Grandin speak last year and she said that she's often asked to speak at GT conferences in addition to the ASD conferences and that there's more overlap there than many realize with regard to the HFA/Asperger's group and the gifted kids. It's the same kids, just different books on the confrences' book tables. ;)

 

I am still trying whether or not to assess. I sent in an assessment to the gifted center nearby and am waiting for them to contact us. 

 

My daughter did talk very early, but from what I've read she didn't have hyperlexia. She probably had around 100 words at one and 300 by 18 months, but didn't read until 3.5+ and is still not fluent and outside of CVC was not self taught. However, she does have some sensory issues that we have discussed with our pedi. He did give us contact information for a therapist, but they did not think she would qualify as SPD. She is sensory sensitive and it is still something each day that she struggles with sensory wise.

 

Your son sounds remarkable! His memory sounds amazing. My daughter has a good memory, but definitely not like that. I don't think she could memorize the planets without a lot of exposure and drilling from me. But, her imagination astounds me and she is extremely creative in that manner. 

 

I will definitely look into 2e testing. I could see the sensory and anxiety being connected to something else.