mild dyslexia?

[caedmyn]

I was doing some reading on dyslexia for my 7 YO who still isn't reading fluently, and was a bit shocked to see how many of the reading and spelling symptoms from this list at www.dys-add.com fit my 10 YO, who's been reading fluently since she was 4.5 YO and reads well above grade level.  She is very easily distracted/hard to keep on task so she may have some mild ADD issues.

 

 

 

Reading

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• Can read a word on one page, but won't recognize it on the next page.
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• Knows phonics, but can't—or won't—sound out an unknown word.
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• Slow, labored, inaccurate reading of single words in isolation (when there is no story line or pictures to provide clues).
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  • When they misread, they often say a word that has the same first and last letters, and the same shape, such as house-horse or beach-bench.
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  • They may insert or leave out letters, such as could–cold or star–stair.
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  • They may say a word that has the same letters, but in a different sequence, such as who–how, lots–lost, saw–was, or girl–grill.
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• When reading aloud, reads in a slow, choppy cadence (not in smooth phrases), and often ignores punctuation.
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• Becomes visibly tired after reading for only a short time.
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• Reading comprehension may be low due to spending so much energy trying to figure out the words. Listening comprehension is usually significantly higher than reading comprehension.
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• Directionality confusion shows up when reading and when writing.
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  • b–d confusion is a classic warning sign. One points to the left, the other points to the right, and they are left–right confused.
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  • b–p, n–u, or m–w confusion. One points up, the other points down. That's also directionality confusion.
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• Substitutes similar-looking words, even if it changes the meaning of the sentence, such as sunrise for surprise, house for horse, while for white, wanting for walking.
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• When reading a story or a sentence, substitutes a word that means the same thing but doesn't look at all similar, such as trip for journey, fast for speed, or cry for weep.
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• Misreads, omits, or even adds small function words, such as an, a, from, the, to, were, are, of.
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• Omits or changes suffixes, saying need for needed, talks for talking, or late for lately.
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Spelling

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• Their spelling is far worse than their reading. They sometimes flunk inventive spelling. They have extreme difficulty with vowel sounds, and often leave them out.
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• With enormous effort, they may be able to “memorize†Monday's spelling list long enough to pass Friday's spelling test, but they can't spell those very same words two hours later when writing those words in sentences.
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• Continually misspells high frequency sight words (nonphonetic but very common words) such as they, what, where, does and because—despite extensive practice.
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• Misspells even when copying something from the board or from a book.
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• Written work shows signs of spelling uncertainty—numerous erasures, cross outs, etc. 

   

 

I bolded the ones she has trouble with.  She pronounces most words correctly, but if there's a word she doesn't know how to pronounce (typically a word of 3 or more syllables), it is about like pulling teeth to get her to pronounce it correctly.  She inserts sounds, leaves out sounds, reverses sounds, guesses, sounds it out and then can't put it back together, etc. The bottom 3 items in the reading list are what she tends to do when reading something like math instructions out loud (though she reads fast, not slowly).  She had made a lot of progress this year, between re-learning phonics rules, going over rules of syllable division, and me making her sound out all unfamiliar words in either her history or geography chapter each day, but this still doesn't come super easily.

 

Spelling has been an issue in the past too.  She was using a workbook-style spelling curriculum, and after 2-3 weeks in each workbook, would still miss 8-12 out of 50 words on the pretest.  We'd study them, and she would commonly (finally) spell the words right, and then take the test, and still miss several of them (plus one or two she hadn't missed before).  And then a week later she'd likely misspell them all again.  She also misspelled all sorts of common sight words.  At the beginning of this school year we did several things to help her spelling (memorizing phonics rules/rules of spelling, studied dictation, doing the dictation passage as copywork several days and marking vowel blends, consonant blends, and r-directed vowels like they do in Spelling You See) and she has made huge progress.  I would actually say she is a good speller now, though there are a few common sight words that she still misspells like because, where, and were.  I think she will get these straighted out over the next few months like she did the others.

 

Is it likely that she has mild dyslexia?  If so, is schoolwork likely to be extra difficult for her through her school career, and more teacher-intensive for me?  This year it has felt like all of her subjects are more teacher-intensive than they should be.  She just seems to need more help than I think a 4th grader should, and is very, very easily distracted.  I can't spend this much time with her next year with a K'er to start and a new baby due in September, plus a 2nd grader who's not independently reading and likely has ADHD. 

 

Is there any good reason to switch spelling programs now that she is spelling well with what we are doing (Simply Charlotte Mason's Spelling Wisdom, which is studied dictation)?

 

Also looking for a couple of curriculum suggestions for her.  I think she needs to continue extra practice reading unfamiliar words--is there something (inexpensive, not time consuming) that she could do independently for this? 

 

Also wondering if there might be a math program that would be a better fit for her (something not too expensive, not teacher-intensive, and not needing a bunch of manipulatives).  We used Saxon 1st-3rd, and switched to Math Mammoth this year.  She did fine in Saxon.  The only thing she struggled with in Saxon 3 was long division.  She does fine in MM too, and seems to have good retention, but when she doesn't understand something, it is fairly difficult to come up with a way to explain it that she will "get".  I think sometimes MM unnecessarily complicates things by breaking them down too far (like 2 digit multiplication, which she understood fine in Saxon 3, but had a hard time putting all the parts back together after the MM explanations).  She wants to go back to Saxon as she thinks the explanations are clearer.  Is this likely to be a better fit for her?  Or other suggestions?

 

And we've been using notebooking to go along with her science (God's Design for Life, currently using the Human Body book).  She has a hard time coming up with things to write, even though she's probably done 30+ notebooking pages at this point.  The material isn't too difficult, she just doesn't seem to know what to write.  Is notebooking likely to be a poor choice for her, or is there a way to help her figure out how to do it without me having to walk her through it each time?

 

Also wondering what the chances are that my younger kids will have reading issues that don't show up til they've been reading for a while.  I looked at the pre-k/k symptoms list at that website and the only ones I remember her showing are trouble pronouncing "r" correctly...she was around 8 when she started saying it properly, and it seems like it took her a while to really keep left and right directions straight.  I thought she was pretty bright when she was younger, before it seemed like she struggled a little with everything.  Neither DH nor I have learning issues, and AFAIK they don't run in either of our families either.

Edited March 22, 2016 by caedmyn

[PeterPan]

Just as easily the ADHD.  The low working memory would cause her to stumble over words like that.  I'll bet she has similar errors with digit spans as she does with decoding lengths of words.  

[caedmyn]

I don't know how accurate it is, but I had her do the free online dyslexia screening at dynaread.com, and she tested fine in working memory (they used an card matching game for the working memory part) but didn't do well in the reading nonsense words. Iirc all the nonsense words were one syllable.

[mamamoose]

If you go check out Susan Barton Reading and Spelling, there are tests on there you can take, to determine if you are qualified to test her (phonologically correct in your speech and hearing), and then tests you can give yourself, although I highly recommend just having your child tested. Its possible she is dyslexic, but dyslexic is 100% genetic, so if it doesn't run in your family, that you know of, its unlikely (although not impossible because people don't often admit to learning troubles). All that said, it sounds like it could be, and the older the child gets, the harder it is to remediate, and often by 5th grade, the child is beyond fully remediating, or so I've been told. If you think it might be, its worth looking into now, as reading only gets harder, and the biggest problem with dyslexics is their comprehension starts to fade as decoding becomes more difficult. It is very intense--I have a K'er with dyslexia and a 2nd grader, and they require a LOT of my time. I end up dumbing stuff down for my K'er and teaching them together, very often. 

[caedmyn]

I wonder if Megawords would be helpful for her reading. I know it's designed for spelling help, but it looks like it might be helpful for reading too.

[Incognito]

You should google "stealth dyslexia".

[OneStepAtATime]

I wonder if Megawords would be helpful for her reading. I know it's designed for spelling help, but it looks like it might be helpful for reading too.

If your child is dyslexic, she needs a more targeted program that will break things down into smaller pieces then pull it all together again.  To know if she is dyslexic you really need an evaluation through a neuropsychologist or an edu-psychologist or at least a qualified language assessment specialist like perhaps a C.A.L.T. trained in assessment.

 

You might look at something like All About Reading/Spelling if you don't want to seek testing.  Barton Reading and Spelling is designed specifically for dyslexics and is designed for a layman to implement without OG training but it may not be necessary to go to that level of remediation.

[OneStepAtATime]

If you go check out Susan Barton Reading and Spelling, there are tests on there you can take, to determine if you are qualified to test her (phonologically correct in your speech and hearing), and then tests you can give yourself, although I highly recommend just having your child tested. Its possible she is dyslexic, but dyslexic is 100% genetic, so if it doesn't run in your family, that you know of, its unlikely (although not impossible because people don't often admit to learning troubles). All that said, it sounds like it could be, and the older the child gets, the harder it is to remediate, and often by 5th grade, the child is beyond fully remediating, or so I've been told. If you think it might be, its worth looking into now, as reading only gets harder, and the biggest problem with dyslexics is their comprehension starts to fade as decoding becomes more difficult. It is very intense--I have a K'er with dyslexia and a 2nd grader, and they require a LOT of my time. I end up dumbing stuff down for my K'er and teaching them together, very often. 

I wanted to address this post.  While I don't know if dyslexia is 100% genetic, I do agree that there is a strong genetic component indicated and I also agree that people from previous generations might not admit they have dyslexia or might not even know they are dyslexic.

 

My husband is dyslexic.  He was not aware he was dyslexic.  He is also dysgraphic.  He was not aware that he is dysgrahic.  He is brilliant but did not connect his struggles in school with those terms and was not willing to share with me that he had had those struggles until we finally had our daughter tested.   Traditional school was 10 times harder for him than your average student but he is gifted.  He made it through, but only barely and only because his parents fostered outside interests that led to a great career in Engineering.

 

My oldest nephew is dyslexic.  His mother is a teacher.  Not once, in all the years I fretted over DD and her struggles, did my SIL ever mention that her son was dyslexic.  It was hush hush.  She didn't share with her siblings, either, including DH.  She was too embarrassed, needlessly so.  

 

Our daughter had challenges in school all through 5th grade and DH never once mentioned he might have had similar issues in school and he frequently discouraged me from getting her tested.  When I finally did it anyway and found out she is dyslexic he cried.  He felt like he had failed her by passing on some horrible disease.  It took quite a bit of convincing to show him that she isn't defective.  She has some terrific gifts that come because she is dyslexic, just like he has some amazing gifts, too.  She just needs to learn reading and spelling a different way from your average kid.  Is it harder for her? Yes.  But not impossible by any means.  We didn't start remediation until she was 12.  She is reading well and her spelling has made a huge turnaround.  It was a lot harder at 12, though, than if we had started when she was younger because she already had some ingrained inefficient reading habits and was already feeling demoralized and had developed a negative attitude towards reading.

[caedmyn]

Stealth dyslexia fits her very well.  When she was younger I thought she was bright.  By the time she finished 2nd grade I didn't think so anymore.  She went to a school that used Accelerated Christian Education K-2, and it was apparent by then that she didn't understand the grammar, was a poor speller, and didn't do as well on tests as I thought she was capable of doing (all the tests have pre-tests that are virtually identical to the tests, so it is not difficult to get perfect scores on them).  Not to mention the amount of homework she tended to have because she was so easily distracted, and any work not done at school came home as homework. 

 

I do think she must have mild dyslexia if she has it, though, because it has not been that difficult, relative to what I have heard others say about working with their dyslexic children, to figure out how to work her through things.  Extra work, yes, and frustrating for my low patience level, but not a slow endless process.  I do not see DH ever agreeing to an evaluation.  He thinks my 7 YO reads fine, and he clearly doesn't read as well as a 1st grader should.

 

I am going to have her do Abecedarian which is supposed to be OG-based.  It is workbook-based and I think will be manageable for me...I cringe when I look at descriptions of some of these other programs.  I think it will be enough for her.  I'm going to switch my struggling 7 YO over to it too.  Not sure if I should have my 5 YO do it for learning-to-read also just in case he has problems reading?  He doesn't seem behind like my 7 YO did even as a preschooler, but then DD didn't either.

 

Is math likely to continue getting more difficult for her as she progresses in it?  Not sure if I should be looking for certain things in a math program or not.  Like I said earlier she seems to do fine in both a spiral and mastery-based program, other than having some difficulty grasping a concept in MM if she doesn't initially understand it (and mostly she does understand them the first time).  I don't know if this is a MM thing or if she would have trouble with some concepts in any program.  MM explanations often don't make much sense to me either.

 

 

[PeterPan]

In general (just really a general statement), a dyslexic reader who learns to read will still be a *slow* reader.  So if she's *slow* that's really different from if she's fast.  My dd was struggling with decoding longer words, blah blah, but she was a blisteringly fast reader.  She's just ADHD and the working memory and visual processing was balking her down.  Her decoding kicked in with VT.  For her I think it was the tracking and the working memory.  She had convergence problems and it had made her visual processing very glitchy.  Her eyes were jumping a lot.  After a month of VT she started trying to decode words.  I remember this moment where we're in a parking lot and she asked what sounds C makes.  She says "I know you told me this once."  I'm like no, not once, THOUSANDS of times darling!!!!!!!!  LOL  We had done SWR for YEARS.  

 

So I think if you want to know you're targeting correctly, you eval.  A developmental optometrist can do a regular eval and *screen* for the developmental vision problems.  If she's an otherwise fast, excellent reader, that's what I'd be thinking, that it's a vision and working memory problem.  

[PeterPan]

PS.  The reason for that is that RAN/RAS (rapid naming) will typically be low in dyslexics.  It's kind of a lagging indicator, even when they finally learn to read.  It's something you can work on with a dyslexic, and I certainly have with my ds to good benefit.  I had my dd tested thoroughly, including with a CTOPP, and her RAN/RAS was fine.  Her decoding was a bit lower than you'd expect, given her IQ and the extent of her instruction with SWR.  However the conclusion was with that profile (normal RAN/RAS, high reading achievement, slightly lower decoding) that it's the ADHD.  Oh well.  Spell check is glorious.  :)

[caedmyn]

If it's a vision/working memory problem, is it likely that the things I did with her that helped her spelling (phonics/spelling rules and highlighting vowel and consonant blends in a copywork passage several days in a row basically) would have worked as well as they did?  And that just forcing her to take the time to sound out difficult words would have shown some definite progress in how well she can read unfamiliar words?

 

I can look into a developmental vision screening.  If it's not too expensive DH might go for it. 

[PeterPan]

You might google vision therapy tests and see what pops up.  I think there are some sites that will suggest ways for you to test your convergence, etc.  

 

Yes, I take my kids to the developmental optometrist for annual visits and the doc just *screens* for developmental stuff.  Has she ever had her eyes checked?  It would be a conservative thing to eliminate as a factor.

[mmasc]

If it's a vision/working memory problem, is it likely that the things I did with her that helped her spelling (phonics/spelling rules and highlighting vowel and consonant blends in a copywork passage several days in a row basically) would have worked as well as they did? And that just forcing her to take the time to sound out difficult words would have shown some definite progress in how well she can read unfamiliar words?

 

I can look into a developmental vision screening. If it's not too expensive DH might go for it.

I know all doctors/areas of the country have different pricing, but I just wanted to say that I was able to take my DS to the only COVD within 100 miles and he still charged a very reasonable price, IMO. For the full eye exam, it cost about $90. Not bad, considering he has basically no local competition to make him keep his prices down.