Challenge... without overload

[Connections]

How do you advise a child on classes to take for a challenging workload without overloading his schedule. 

 

How do you avoid overload? How do you even define overload? Is this something that is child dependent or is there a universal definition you would apply? 

 

What are your thoughts on auditing AP classes instead of fully enrolling? I am wondering if that will help provide challenge without overload? 

 

Any other suggestions? 

 

Your thoughts on the subject are most welcome! 

 

 

 

 

[OnMyOwn]

I am looking at having my dd do some AP courses at home rather than outsourcing them all, specifically with the thought that we can be more efficient at home. I am really drawn to the PA Homeschoolers classes, but many of them seem to require 10 hours of work a week. I think there are some classes we can do at home in much less time than that. But, what I offer at home may very well not be as rich of an experience. I think it is a hard balance to attain.

Edited February 5, 2016 by OnMyOwn

[plansrme]

AP courses at home:  all the challenge without the fluff.  My daughter was extremely accelerated academically but also was, until a career-ending injury her junior year, an athlete in a sport that consumed 25 hours/week, year-around.  We started APs in seventh grade while she was homeschooled.  She had 5 APs (all 5s) under her belt before she started high school.  At home, we focused on content, not projects.  It probably wasn't the most fun way to learn world history, and who doesn't love to play the Stock Market Game in AP econ?  Surely, AP calculus should require at least one poster board and a glue stick. . ..  But projects and games are not necessary to learn the content, and I knew this student did not need projects to keep her interest.  She has a high tolerance for boredom, so ingesting the most substance as efficiently as possible was the answer for us.  A student who prefers more fluffy content (and there's nothing wrong with that--it just wasn't her style), on the other hand, might be bored by this approach. 

[Mom22ns]

How do you advise a child on classes to take for a challenging workload without overloading his schedule. 

 

How do you avoid overload? How do you even define overload? Is this something that is child dependent or is there a universal definition you would apply? 

 

What are your thoughts on auditing AP classes instead of fully enrolling? I am wondering if that will help provide challenge without overload? 

 

Any other suggestions? 

 

Your thoughts on the subject are most welcome! 

 

I think this is one of the hardest lines to walk. I'll start with the way I define overload. Overload in my mind is a load that does not allow students to pursue passions, or a load that makes them feel constantly stressed. It is NOT universal. Every child has a different point where they reach overload. Some kids thrive on a full schedule, some wilt under it. To define overload for your child and your family, you have to look at who your child is and what they want. 

 

As far as advising a child on classes to take, I think you look at what they are taking now. Are they floating? Is it easy? Are they already challenged? Are they already overloaded? Figure out where they are, then add or subtract to get where you/they decide they should be. 

 

I think auditing an AP class would be a waste of time. If you want to avoid the pressure, home study the subject at the level your child is capable of, whether that is high school level, college level, or somewhere in between.

 

My suggestion on the subject is to increase load carefully until you find the level that challenges your student, but where they are still happy!

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I would suggest spending some time clarifying your goals in regards to APs.

 

There are many skills that are learned in classes that cannot be learned and refined in a course at home. Maybe these skills are of no interest to some students, there's nothing wrong with that, but they are important to some. Studying at home, on the other hand, is stifling and limiting to many, especially if they have studied at home their whole lives. 

 

If the prized 5 or college credit is your only goal, APs might be approached very differently than if the goals are of a broader sort.

 

[OnMyOwn]

I would suggest spending some time clarifying your goals in regards to APs.

 

There are many skills that are learned in classes that cannot be learned and refined in a course at home. Maybe these skills are of no interest to some students, there's nothing wrong with that, but they are important to some. Studying at home, on the other hand, is stifling and limiting to many, especially if they have studied at home their whole lives. 

 

If the prized 5 or college credit is your only goal, APs might be approached very differently than if the goals are of a broader sort.

 

I definitely agree that some of the outside classes have a lot of value.  But, I think that can be balanced with still taking some classes at home, no?  My dd does take outside classes, but, in trying to meet our goal of challenging her, but also having free time to explore other interests, we are thinking of doing some of the AP classes at home.  It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

[Luckymama]

The AP classes dd takes at home with me are more challenging than the (same course) ones her older siblings did at two different high schools. I was able to eliminate repetition, busy work such poster presentations, and huge amounts of review-worksheet-type activities in favor of deeper readings and discussions and writing.

 

Of course, dd is an odd duck whose level of appropriate challenge has yet to be met, even this year with university Arabic, five APs, and bio done in a semester, so take what I say with a gigantic grain of salt ;)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I definitely agree that some of the outside classes have a lot of value.  But, I think that can be balanced with still taking some classes at home, no?  My dd does take outside classes, but, in trying to meet our goal of challenging her, but also having free time to explore other interests, we are thinking of doing some of the AP classes at home.  It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

 

In no way is it all or nothing. 

 

Again, it is important to clarify one's goals.  Some students have goals and needs met at home, some don't. Some have goals and needs met with a mix. 

 

My dd falls in the last group. We do a mix. 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

The AP classes dd takes at home with me are more challenging than the (same course) ones her older siblings did at two different high schools. I was able to eliminate repetition, busy work such poster presentations, and huge amounts of review-worksheet-type activities in favor of deeper readings and discussions and writing.

 

Of course, dd is an odd duck whose level of appropriate challenge has yet to be met, even this year with university Arabic, five APs, and bio done in a semester, so take what I say with a gigantic grain of salt ;)

 

Challenging in what way?

 

Challenge can mean so many things.  All students are odd ducks in my mind. Each one is a puzzle to be solved.

[OnMyOwn]

In no way is it all or nothing. 

 

Again, it is important to clarify one's goals.  Some students have goals and needs met at home, some don't. Some have goals and needs met with a mix. 

 

My dd falls in the last group. We do a mix. 

 

Totally agree.

[quark]

We take baby steps. My guy seems to enjoy academics but there is an obvious limit point for him. So we just ramp up slowly. We started quite early though because he was ready so we've had more time.

 

In our home, we've had to outsource academics since quite early on. It started with one class + all others as home brewed with mixed and matched resources.

The next year was one outsourced class again but this time a harder, year-long class and more high stakes (but still customizable -- we used a private tutor so it didn't feel like deadlines were absolute). We continued with the home brewed for other subjects. And we unschooled a few that we just couldn't fit in time wise.

The year after that was 2 outsourced classes, both on the harder side + home brewed for the rest. One was the same private tutor, and another was Derek Owens but since Derek's course was asynchronous/ recorded lectures and DS didn't need to collect high school credit at the time, we asked Derek to extend it to an 18-month course vs 10.

 

Rinse and repeat but leaning towards adding more challenge step by step, changing up the schedule when needed, dropping things when it feels like too much (like a pp said, too much = less time for interest subjects/ hobbies/ work eating into sleep time which is an absolute NO for me...I told him that we cannot compromise where sleep is concerned and for him, free reading time is very important so we also try not to let anything encroach too much on that).

 

Now we do the home brewed to supplement the outsourced. We follow a college semester system. He does well with 4 outsourced classes at a time per semester, and most are now in person DE classes. We use additional resources at home to supplement the outsourced classes, e.g. additional readings and discussions, documentaries and Great Courses, Coursera if he's interested and I lean a little heavier on writing expectations (e.g. if college prof assigns an essay, I expect DS to add at least one more quality research source than would be normally expected). We noticed that adding to the four courses/ semester pattern significantly eats into the supplement time and we enjoy the supplementing too much to add challenge for the sake of challenge. But I am noticing increased stamina now. Baby steps have worked very well for him but it requires some monitoring and fine tuning and that is so different from child to child.

 

No APs here though so maybe not a good comparison? The in-person college classes are given higher priority in our schedule and we take careful note of the without W drop dates in case it starts to feel too much.

Edited February 6, 2016 by quark

[DebbS]

I would suggest spending some time clarifying your goals in regards to APs.

 

There are many skills that are learned in classes that cannot be learned and refined in a course at home. Maybe these skills are of no interest to some students, there's nothing wrong with that, but they are important to some. Studying at home, on the other hand, is stifling and limiting to many, especially if they have studied at home their whole lives. 

 

If the prized 5 or college credit is your only goal, APs might be approached very differently than if the goals are of a broader sort.

 

Yes this.

 

I created one at home AP course (CB certified) but my son took four AP tests and received 15 hours of college credit. His colleges of interest gave the same credit for 4s as they did for 5s so we aimed for 4s, though he got a few 5s anyway.  My daughter has taken one AP test so far without taking the AP level course and she got a 4. A decent background in the subject, the ability to write an essay and a little bit of time reviewing with the study guides is all that they needed to get 4s. We have found that the 5s require a little more preparation.

 

That said, actually taking advanced courses is beneficial. Overall, they require higher level critical thinking and better prepare your student for college level coursework.