Is this a reasonable math plan?!

[Kerileanne99]

We started back to school in the middle of this week...and Alex (newly 6!) accused me of keeping her from math by only doing 'review.'

It is true that I have been giving her review problems as part of her independent work plan, and I have been busy with baby Max. The truth is, I am not quite sure where to go with her!

She constantly surpasses and short-circuits my plans, and has completed mid December what I had hoped would last for her Kindy year. She has gone through: SM 4B and part of 5. LofF elementary/middle series and Fractions. BA 3A-3D, 4A. Key to Fractions (4 books), Key to Percents (2 books), and Key to Decimals (2 books), Hands on Equations, and random other supplements.The problem is that when she is interested in something we do it on the side-and somehow I am always caught off guard when we move to the next book and discover she already has been doing the work.

 

She thinks she should move into algebra../ I am not completely opposed to this as she has done the first couple of books in the Key to Algebra series, and there are no issues. But I also want something to stretch her imagination/problem solving while still balancing her often very immature mindset.

Today I pulled out the Jacobs Math: A Human Endeavor, and it occurred to me maybe I could squeeze a few months out of it. There are so many cool topics, it might be a chance to take what she knows and play with it. Has anybody done anything similar and used it as kind of a bridge or challenge year?is this doable, or am I looking in the wrong direction?

Any other ideas completely welcome as well...

Edited January 9, 2016 by Kerileanne99

[Arcadia]

Let her start algebra if she wants to :lol:

ALs typically know when they hit a wall. They'll double back themselves when they hit gaps

[hellojwolford]

My first thought: time for some AoPS prealgebra. But I found it to be parent intensive for my 7 y.o. So, my second thought: have you tried the FAN math Process Skills books? They can be purchased from the Singapore math website and the level on the book cover corresponds well with the Singapore math level. They teach how to work problems with drawing pictures, but it is really algebra that they are teaching. Instead of "x", you use a box. These books could be worked through fairly independently. I thought they were pretty cool, and my son gets a kick at looking back at these books (now that he has some algebra under his belt) and trying the same problems with algebraic methods.

Edited January 9, 2016 by hellojwolford

[Dmmetler]

LOF PA was a good bridge between Singapore and AOPS for my DD (at 7), and while she may not have needed it, I don't think it was wasted time, because AOPS goes so much deeper, and LOF adds the "cute, silly story" which I know my DD needed. Besides, I think she really liked being smarter than Fred :), who does some really dumb things :).

[Kerileanne99]

Lol, somehow I managed to post the original before I finished it:)

I should also say that we do plan to go through L of F prealgebra...but she has always done L of F as an extra supplement and doesn't seem to see it as 'her real math.' I am not quite sure how that happened:)

[Gil]

Well, I asked about something similar a long time ago, didn't get much response though. You might try talking to Alex and telling her that before you buy any more math books, she needs to work through what you guys have on hand so that you can trash/donate/pack it away/clean it out of the house and make room for a lot of great algebra stuff for the summer. Tell her that once she starts Algebra, you don't want to be constantly doubling back and cleaning up lower math resources etc...that might motivate her to do the rest of PM5, Keys to Decimals, Percents and Algebra along side Mathematics a Human Endeavor.

 

In your situation, I would insist on Alex completing the remaining parts of PM5 and Keys to books, because I would be loathe to leave off PM5/Keys to since she's made strong headway in each of the series, I can understand leaving off the revision year PM6, but I don't like to let my boys quit things and certainly not near the end. It can be a delicate balance between teaching them to persevere/finish what they start and breeding resentment though...You'll have to make the call for your own kid. I made my boys do ALL of math problems in every series prior to mastering my idea of the 8th grade level of math. I told them that we don't read just some of the words in a book, so we don't do just some of the problems in a book either. I made the argument that you don't skip words like "the" "to" "and" "for" etc when reading, and so we weren't going to skip problems because they were "easy"

 

(That made absolute sense to them a few years ago. It might not work on Alex, she seems loads smarter than my boys, lol.)

 

Look through the books and see if that trio of books will last you through the spring and how to loosely schedule them. We both know that Alex is very possibly capable of completing Primary Mathematics 5B + the rest of Keys to + Mathematics: A Human Endeavor (and whatever math resources are a part of your house hold math stash)  by the summer, so that seems like a natural breaking point for her. I would really make completing the series she's already working on an issue of character building and environmental friendliness (ie not wasting books/paper.)

 

Maybe when you are done with the Keys to series, you can shred the paper for math confetti and/or make a paper mache pinata. Alex might get a kick out of that sort of thing.

 

In the mean time, look up algebra resources that are the "next level" up from Hands on Equations and help Alex build a wishlist of Algebra resources that you will buy her for leading up to the summer. (Even if you order them ahead of time and hide them from her.) Try to convince her that once she's done with those 3 series, she'll be ready to full-on tackle Algebra. I'm sure that you have a ton of math laying around so I'm not going to bother you with the "rabbit trails" and "go broader" spiel. Clearly you guys are covering that part.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Gil

[Kerileanne99]

Well, I asked about something similar a long time ago, didn't get much response though. You might try talking to Alex and telling her that before you buy any more math books, she needs to work through what you guys have on hand so that you can trash/donate/pack it away/clean it out of the house and make room for a lot of great algebra stuff for the summer. Tell her that once she starts Algebra, you don't want to be constantly doubling back and cleaning up lower math resources etc...that might motivate her to do the rest of PM5, Keys to Decimals, Percents and Algebra along side Mathematics a Human Endeavor.

 

In your situation, I would insist on Alex completing the remaining parts of PM5 and Keys to books, because I would be loathe to leave off PM5/Keys to since she's made strong headway in each of the series, I can understand leaving off the revision year PM6, but I don't like to let my boys quit things and certainly not near the end. It can be a delicate balance between teaching them to persevere/finish what they start and breeding resentment though...You'll have to make the call for your own kid. I made my boys do ALL of math problems in every series prior to mastering my idea of the 8th grade level of math. I told them that we don't read just some of the words in a book, so we don't do just some of the problems in a book either. I made the argument that you don't skip words like "the" "to" "and" "for" etc when reading, and so we weren't going to skip problems because they were "easy"

 

(That made absolute sense to them a few years ago. It might not work on Alex, she seems loads smarter than my boys, lol.)

 

Look through the books and see if that trio of books will last you through the spring and how to loosely schedule them. We both know that Alex is very possibly capable of completing Primary Mathematics 5B + the rest of Keys to + Mathematics: A Human Endeavor (and whatever math resources are a part of your house hold math stash) by the summer, so that seems like a natural breaking point for her. I would really make completing the series she's already working on an issue of character building and environmental friendliness (ie not wasting books/paper.)

 

Maybe when you are done with the Keys to series, you can shred the paper for math confetti and/or make a paper mache pinata. Alex might get a kick out of that sort of thing.

 

In the mean time, look up algebra resources that are the "next level" up from Hands on Equations and help Alex build a wishlist of Algebra resources that you will buy her for leading up to the summer. (Even if you order them ahead of time and hide them from her.) Try to convince her that once she's done with those 3 series, she'll be ready to full-on tackle Algebra. I'm sure that you have a ton of math laying around so I'm not going to bother you with the "rabbit trails" and "go broader" spiel. Clearly you guys are covering that part.

Oh! See, that is what I get for posting late at night:)

We definitely will finish SM...but this is what she means by 'review.' We somehow have just 'played' with math that there isn't anything new that I can see. She is wanting 'something new.' I would imagine we will finish the final Key to books in the next month or so as well.

 

We also do the SM mental math and challenging word problems, although these are a separate session. In our house math gets (by request) two hour long sessions. One is independent (where she works through things like SM) and one is with me for any new material or questions. This is when she is wanting new material. I have been venturing down the road of chemistry and physics applications of late, and that seems to catch her attention:)

 

I absolutely agree that she must finish them:)

[Gil]

Oh! See, that is what I get for posting late at night:)

We definitely will finish SM...but this is what she means by 'review.' We somehow have just 'played' with math that there isn't anything new that I can see. She is wanting 'something new.' I would imagine we will finish the final Key to books in the next month or so as well.

 

We also do the SM mental math and challenging word problems, although these are a separate session. In our house math gets (by request) two hour long sessions. One is independent (where she works through things like SM) and one is with me for any new material or questions. This is when she is wanting new material. I have been venturing down the road of chemistry and physics applications of late, and that seems to catch her attention:)

 

I absolutely agree that she must finish them:)

Would you be willing to list every algebra resource you currently own? It will be fun to see what your family owns and will trigger a scavenger hunt for resources that you don't own yet.

 

I have a few suggestions but you probably already have them.

[Gil]

As for "new" material for your one-on-one sessions, I'd consider things that don't feature prominently in beginning algebra.

I have a book called Hard Math for Elementary Students. Its actually poorly written and I don't recommend it, despite the glowing reviews on Amazon, however it includes several unusual topics for the elementary grades. ElmerRex did an extensive review of the book here. The noteworthy topics that you may not have done extensively are

02 - Base 8 alternatives binary, base 3 and 5, base 4 and 7

04 - Tiling Floors (Tessellations) alternatives Tessellations, tessellations, tessellations.

05 - Addition Puzzles these are logic puzzles and you can use an alternative too this.

10 - Finding Areas I'm going to assume that Alex is an old-timer with this, but you can draw really funky two-dimensional shapes on graphing paper and find the perimeter and area of them. ETA: You can find the volume of regular and totally weird shapes also. Talk about whether they are approximations or exact calculations.

11 - Modular Arithmetic clock math, Modular math, modular arithmetic and more modular math

13 - Combinatorics Combinatorics for the 3rd Grade Classroom

15 - Regular Polyhedron Polyhdron, more polyhedron and even more polyhedron

 

Honestly, the book Hard Math for Elementary is NOT well written, if you can get it from the library go for it. If not, don't waste money/time/shelf space on this volume.

 

ETA:

Another topic that Alex may enjoy is calculating dates/days of the week for any date given, which I'm sure you could look up online, but it is also in the book Secrets of Mental Math by Art Benjamin, which you may already own.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Gil

[Dmmetler]

And, now that Gil's mentioned Art Benjamin, if you can get his Great Course videos, they're awesome. His joy and love for math comes through, and the topics tend to be things outside the typical course sequence, unless you're a college math major (and possibly even then). My DD got to do a live workshop with him last summer, and then went on a quest to watch all his videos and read everything she could find by him.

[Kerileanne99]

Would you be willing to list every algebra resource you currently own? It will be fun to see what your family owns and will trigger a scavenger hunt for resources that you don't own yet.

 

I have a few suggestions but you probably already have them.

Ooh, fun:)

The ridiculous number of math books, textbooks, supplements, and games around here is a bit out of control, lol. However, I haven't collected nearly so many upper level materials so this will be fun:)

 

Off the top of my head:

Life of Fred Pre-Algebra, Algebra, and the Biology one

Jacobs Math: A Human Endeavor

Foerster's Algebra book

Algebra for Dummies

Pizzazz Algebra materials

Saxon Algebra 1/2 and 1

I just ordered the AOPS Number Theory book as she really has fun with that sort of thing. I have no idea how it will work. No way could she actually take the class. She is severe ADHD and her recent PANDAS diagnosis has involved lots of OCD/strange tics. When she is reading or doing math it is the only time she is not a ball of noise and motion:) and even then, neither activity is quiet or stationary!

[Kerileanne99]

And, now that Gil's mentioned Art Benjamin, if you can get his Great Course videos, they're awesome. His joy and love for math comes through, and the topics tend to be things outside the typical course sequence, unless you're a college math major (and possibly even then). My DD got to do a live workshop with him last summer, and then went on a quest to watch all his videos and read everything she could find by him.

Ooh, I didn't realize there was one! We have the Math Secrets book and she has picked up quite a bit of 'fun' from it. He was the first to introduce her to the idea that once she had memorized all her basic squares, cubes, square roots, cube roots, she could use them to find much larger ones:) I think he also spurred her fascination with primes...

 

I should also say that I don't have any need to just keep moving forward linearly on a traditional math path. I just feel like her joy with mayh is something to foster and encourage. I just can't justify making her use anything (at this point) that would stifle that. Yes, I do have her practice more problems in some areas than she would like but on a 'you have to be a hard worker' idea rather than a 'you must do x number of problems' deal.

[Kerileanne99]

As for "new" material for your one-on-one sessions, I'd consider things that don't feature prominently in beginning algebra.

I have a book called Hard Math for Elementary Students. Its actually poorly written and I don't recommend it, despite the glowing reviews on Amazon, however it includes several unusual topics for the elementary grades. ElmerRex did an extensive review of the book here. The noteworthy topics that you may not have done extensively are

02 - Base 8 alternatives binary, base 3 and 5, base 4 and 7

04 - Tiling Floors (Tessellations) alternatives Tessellations, tessellations, tessellations.

05 - Addition Puzzles these are logic puzzles and you can use an alternative too this.

10 - Finding Areas I'm going to assume that Alex is an old-timer with this, but you can draw really funky two-dimensional shapes on graphing paper and find the perimeter and area of them. ETA: You can find the volume of regular and totally weird shapes also. Talk about whether they are approximations or exact calculations.

11 - Modular Arithmetic clock math, Modular math, modular arithmetic and more modular math

13 - Combinatorics Combinatorics for the 3rd Grade Classroom

15 - Regular Polyhedron Polyhdron, more polyhedron and even more polyhedron

 

Honestly, the book Hard Math for Elementary is NOT well written, if you can get it from the library go for it. If not, don't waste money/time/shelf space on this volume.

 

ETA:

Another topic that Alex may enjoy is calculating dates/days of the week for any date given, which I'm sure you could look up online, but it is also in the book Secrets of Mental Math by Art Benjamin, which you may already own.

See, I like the way you think!

Fridays are fun math Fridays here and we do something just like these ideas. Origami, math games, tesselations, just exploring a fun math concept.

Did I mention that I am *not* a mathematician?! I am learning right alongside of her. I did a traditional math path through college Cal III and differential equations-but freely admit it was a grind and only a means to my chemistry/biology degrees:) it took a child's love of numbers to open my eyes to the fun of it. Now I plan to go back for a Maths degree just for fun when the kiddos are a bit bigger. But in the meantime I am playing right along with the kid!

 

That Combinatorics activity looks really good. I think that is the sort of thing that she would enjoy:)

[Mike in SA]

TT wouldn't be a bad bridge - it doesn't require as much attention.  But, be sure to explain that you'll double back with a deeper review with something like AoPS Pre-A next year or later.

[Gil]

In your shoes, since she is already (quickly) completing the stuff that she's working on, then I would let new be the unusual topics we discussed until she was done with PM5, Keys to series and working out of Mathematics: A Human Endeavor. You have an AoPS text on the way, so I'd let that stay as our challenging math and accelerate through the early parts of Foerster as the spine for Algebra.

 

If she really flourishes with AoPS, then I'd try her out in the AoPS (pre)Algebra text after covering most of it via Foerster.

Spend that would-be-math budget on other subjects unless you just have tons and tons and tons of open space for math texts.

 

Ooh, fun:)
The ridiculous number of math books, textbooks, supplements, and games around here is a bit out of control, lol. However, I haven't collected nearly so many upper level materials so this will be fun:)

Off the top of my head:
Life of Fred Pre-Algebra, Algebra, and the Biology one
Jacobs Math: A Human Endeavor
Foerster's Algebra book
Algebra for Dummies
Pizzazz Algebra materials
Saxon Algebra 1/2 and 1
I just ordered the AOPS Number Theory book as she really has fun with that sort of thing. I have no idea how it will work. No way could she actually take the class. She is severe ADHD and her recent PANDAS diagnosis has involved lots of OCD/strange tics. When she is reading or doing math it is the only time she is not a ball of noise and motion:) and even then, neither activity is quiet or stationary!

Well, it sounds like you have everything that you'd need for a very strong start in Algebra already. Personally I wouldn't buy another Algebra book just yet, unless it was something very unique.

 

Are you still using Hands on Equations? There is a Verbal Problems book for that series and if she's enjoying the series, she might like it and it may stretch the program. It may help her feel more like she is doing Algebra. I don't know that much about the series personally though. If she likes blocks and manipulatives than she might like some of the manipulatives geared toward Algebra such as Algebra Tiles. For a kid who blows through and out grows stuff, you might want to make your own out of cereal boxes and construction paper as a craft project rather than invest in them for her to use them one day and never look back.

 

I would grab Algebra for Dummies and add it to the pile of stuff that is being used currently--there aren't that many problems in it and you shouldn't need the additional workbook that goes with it, though it may help Alex feel like she is doing something "new". Algebra for Dummies goes nicely with Keys to Algebra and its fairly readable. Depending on the edition you have, there may be errata in it, so I'd challenge her to find errors in the Dummies book.

 

I was going to recommend Algebra Word Problems book 1, but if you have the Verbal Word Problems book for HOE and/or Foerster then you shouldn't need it. I hear that Foerster has tons and tons and tons of word problems.

 

Pizzazz PreAlgebra, Bridge to Algebra and Algebra materials are packed with sets of worksheets for virtually every topic that you could need so I can't think of what good buying an Algebra workbook would do you, unless you have trouble printing and binding worksheets yourself.

[lewelma]

Wow Gil, you're awesome!

[quark]

Ooh, fun:)

The ridiculous number of math books, textbooks, supplements, and games around here is a bit out of control, lol. However, I haven't collected nearly so many upper level materials so this will be fun:)

 

Off the top of my head:

Life of Fred Pre-Algebra, Algebra, and the Biology one

Jacobs Math: A Human Endeavor

Foerster's Algebra book

Algebra for Dummies

Pizzazz Algebra materials

Saxon Algebra 1/2 and 1

I just ordered the AOPS Number Theory book as she really has fun with that sort of thing. I have no idea how it will work. No way could she actually take the class. She is severe ADHD and her recent PANDAS diagnosis has involved lots of OCD/strange tics. When she is reading or doing math it is the only time she is not a ball of noise and motion:) and even then, neither activity is quiet or stationary!

 

There's a reason why I'm keeping our non traditional math resources linked in my siggy. :D Have you taken a look at that list? Is there something there she would like? I can't give you a structured plan to go with it because we don't do structure for non traditional math. When I started that thread, he had just turned 9 and worked on a lot of those resources already because he started from about 5+ years old. Just not in a consistent finish every page from cover to cover way because that's not how his mind works. It's not because he is lazy or doesn't mind wasting paper. He just isn't a linear learner.

 

Just a thought with the OCD and strange tics, I am not disrespecting any diagnosis, only adding that introducing more nuts (he isn't allergic to tree nuts) and bananas and prunes to DS's diet helped to reduce tics completely after a few months. For him I think it was a magnesium deficiency but it doesn't explain why tics spiked when his OCD spiked. Just something for you to try if you haven't.

Edited January 9, 2016 by quark

[Gil]

Wow Gil, you're awesome!

I know right! I should have my own holiday or something.

 

:rofl:

[Kerileanne99]

There's a reason why I'm keeping our non traditional math resources linked in my siggy. :D Have you taken a look at that list? Is there something there she would like? I can't give you a structured plan to go with it because we don't do structure for non traditional math. When I started that thread, he had just turned 9 and worked on a lot of those resources already because he started from about 5+ years old. Just not in a consistent finish every page from cover to cover way because that's not how his mind works. It's not because he is lazy or doesn't mind wasting paper. He just isn't a linear learner.

 

Just a thought with the OCD and strange tics, I am not disrespecting any diagnosis, only adding that introducing more nuts (he isn't allergic to tree nuts) and bananas and prunes to DS's diet helped to reduce tics completely after a few months. For him I think it was a magnesium deficiency but it doesn't explain why tics spiked when his OCD spiked. Just something for you to try if you haven't.

I am totally willing to try anything at this point:). Dietary deficiencies and issues are at the top of my list to check when we see her doctor next week. We are vegetarian (although we consider her to be just the child of vegetarian parents-we can and will do meat for her if she chose or needed it.) she is also incredibly picky with sensory issues, so bloodwork is routinely done by her ped nutritionist...still, it has been more than 6 months.

[Kerileanne99]

I know right! I should have my own holiday or something.

 

:rofl:

I agree:)

 

Moreso, so does my kid today! I started a bit of play today, with the Combinatorics PDF. After a few minutes she drew on our huge dry erase board and was so excited. She had noticed that on our street there are three families with kids: one family has 2 girls, one family has 2 boys, and we have 1 girl/one boy. She is now extremely excited by the possibilities for calculations of all manner of combinations of things! I should have thought about it before, as she has always loved trying out ways to sort and classify things.

However, something tells me I am going to have to have more than a few late nights to stay ahead of her.

 

Oh, we do use the verbal problems book for HOE. We have actually gone through so much, and have done the fractions kit as well. Dr. Borenson is amazing and has even done Skype sessions with Alex in a mentoring capacity. There is a video of her on his YouTube channel, I think when she was 4? Can't say enough great things about HOE:)

[Gil]

I agree:)

 

Moreso, so does my kid today! I started a bit of play today, with the Combinatorics PDF. After a few minutes she drew on our huge dry erase board and was so excited. She had noticed that on our street there are three families with kids: one family has 2 girls, one family has 2 boys, and we have 1 girl/one boy. She is now extremely excited by the possibilities for calculations of all manner of combinations of things! I should have thought about it before, as she has always loved trying out ways to sort and classify things.

However, something tells me I am going to have to have more than a few late nights to stay ahead of her.

 

Oh, we do use the verbal problems book for HOE. We have actually gone through so much, and have done the fractions kit as well. Dr. Borenson is amazing and has even done Skype sessions with Alex in a mentoring capacity. There is a video of her on his YouTube channel, I think when she was 4? Can't say enough great things about HOE:)

Silly mom, don't you know by now to give yourself a 3+ day head start on the kid? If not, this oughta teach you.

If you start to run low on resources, I can recommend a few more that'll be novel, but not directly related to algebra.

 

I've never held or seen HOE up close, but how do you find the HOE Verbal Problems? How are the more challenging/advanced problems in the HOE book? How do the HOE word problems compare with the problems found in (the beginning of) Foresters? Since she knows and likes prime numbers and algebra then she might also like to play those number-guessing games where a multi-digit number is described using clues for each of its digits based on either divisibility or algebraic equations.

[AEC]

ohhh....

 

DD12 has been asking for more 'fun math' to go with Alg.

 

02 - Base 8 alternatives binary, base 3 and 5, base 4 and 7

05 - Addition Puzzles these are logic puzzles and you can use an alternative too this.

11 - Modular Arithmetic clock math, Modular math, modular arithmetic and more modular math

 

sounds exactly like what she's looking for.  Thanks!!!