Spelling

[silver]

My son will be finishing level 4 of RLTL (so he'll have covered the entire Ayers list) this year. He's not a natural speller, but he's not terrible, either. I'd guess he spells at grade level. I'm looking for something to do with him for 4th grade.

 

I'm leaning toward studied dictation for next year. I'll give him a passage and have him mark it up like we do in RLTL (which is similar to Spalding or LOE). After he marks it, he'll copy it. Then I'll have him mark it up again the next day before I dictate it to him. I figured if we do this, it will help him visualize the words better and give him continued practice in analyzing words.

 

But I have found that my son tends to need explicit instruction, so I'm wondering if maybe I should continue with a more formal spelling program so that he can continue to have that explicit instruction. What might be good for him would be a combined spelling and vocabulary program (he's doing Wordly Wise, which I'm happy with, but I'm not devoted to).

 

One thing I know won't work for him is a spelling program that groups words by similar spelling. We've tried AAS, and he would quickly figure out the pattern ("we're using this particular phonogram this lesson") and use that pattern to spell the words, but promptly forget them after the lesson was done.

 

Anyone have a child like this? Needs spelling instruction but cannot have words grouped by pattern? What do you use? Anyone know of a good combined spelling/vocabulary program that may work? I'm okay with workbooks and I'm also okay with something requiring 1-on-1 instruction. I'd like if it could take about 30-40 minutes max a week (for just spelling) or 45-90 minutes a week for spelling and vocabulary combined.

 

[forty-two]

I'm leaning toward studied dictation for next year. I'll give him a passage and have him mark it up like we do in RLTL (which is similar to Spalding or LOE). After he marks it, he'll copy it. Then I'll have him mark it up again the next day before I dictate it to him. I figured if we do this, it will help him visualize the words better and give him continued practice in analyzing words.

 

My dd9 isn't nearly as good of a speller as your ds, but this is exactly what I have her do with WWE copywork/dictation and any other copywork/dictation we do (except we are using the Spelling You See marking system instead of WRTR-style markings).  We are going through a formal spelling program as well, because there's still a lot for dd9 to *learn* (and we add in each new thing she learns into our copywork/dictation marking system).  Basically, I think of the formal spelling program as how she *learns* all the components to spelling - phonograms and syllables and how to break apart and put together words into their syllables and sounds, along with prefixes/suffixes and how to add them to base words - and studied dictation as where she *practices* spelling and spelling analysis. 

 

Do you think your ds needs more advanced spelling tools, or do you think he already has all the tools he needs to analyze most any word that crosses his path and he just needs to practice them?  Personally I'd only do a spelling program if it was teaching him something new (or if you wanted already prepared copywork/dictation, with the passages already marked for you, instead of you needing to be able to analyze the spelling yourself) - if all he needs is to practice using the knowledge he already has, then I don't know that you'd really need anything more than studied dictation using the marking system he's already learned.  (And even if you were doing a formal program, I do think there's a lot of benefit in practicing with studied dictation alongside it.)

Edited January 2, 2016 by forty-two

[silver]

He's learned all the phonograms and syllabification rules. He can add suffixes to silent e words and knows about changing single vowel y to i when adding a vowel suffix. He knows when to double the last consonant with a one syllable word, but I'm not sure he could figure it out with a multi-syllable word. Schwa can give him trouble. He still needs practice with knowing which phonogram to use, but that's more of a visual thing than something a program could teach him. The longer and more syllables a word has, the less likely it is that he'll spell it correctly (which is why I say he's about on grade level and not a natural).

 

He's certainly not at the point where we can just ignore spelling. I'm not sure if he needs more instruction or if studied dictation will be enough practice to improve his spelling. Is there such a thing as a word root program that also works on spelling?

[Ellie]

He's learned all the phonograms and syllabification rules. He can add suffixes to silent e words and knows about changing single vowel y to i when adding a vowel suffix. He knows when to double the last consonant with a one syllable word, but I'm not sure he could figure it out with a multi-syllable word. Schwa can give him trouble. He still needs practice with knowing which phonogram to use, but that's more of a visual thing than something a program could teach him. The longer and more syllables a word has, the less likely it is that he'll spell it correctly (which is why I say he's about on grade level and not a natural).

 

He's certainly not at the point where we can just ignore spelling. I'm not sure if he needs more instruction or if studied dictation will be enough practice to improve his spelling. Is there such a thing as a word root program that also works on spelling?

 

I'm not familiar with...whatever it is you used. :-) You said you he'll have "covered" the Ayers list by the end of the year; how does he do that? And are you faithfully following the method you're using? One thing I have noticed when talking with unhappy Spalding users is that many of them don't actually do Spalding; that is, they might teach the phonograms and use the words in the spelling list, but they don't do the oral and written phonogram drills, or they don't dictate and then analyze the words, and so on. One friend complained that Spalding wasn't working for her children, but it turned out that she was using words from a spelling book and marking them ala Spalding (the next year she faithfully followed the Method and her dc's spelling levels improved dramatically). I'm not trying to sell you on Spalding; I'm just explaining that it's important when you're using a specific method that you follow the method as faithfully as possible for best results.

[silver]

We drill phonograms (both where I say the sounds and he writes and where I show him the phonogram and he says the sound). I dictate the words and he writes them, with help on using the correct phonogram when relevant. He marks the words and we review any applicable rules. But we don't camp out on a word if he is unable to spell it on his own, so finishing the list won't imply mastery of the list.

[Ellie]

We drill phonograms (both where I say the sounds and he writes and where I show him the phonogram and he says the sound). I dictate the words and he writes them, with help on using the correct phonogram when relevant. He marks the words and we review any applicable rules. But we don't camp out on a word if he is unable to spell it on his own, so finishing the list won't imply mastery of the list.

 

Well, you know, that sounds pretty good. :-)

 

Even Spalding doesn't expect "mastery" after completing one year. Children in schools that teach Spalding do it every year for five or six years, so there you go. :-)

 

You might consider letting him do Spelling by Sound and Structure, which has really comprehensive activities in each lesson that reinforce spelling rules and whatnot.

[MerryAtHope]

We drill phonograms (both where I say the sounds and he writes and where I show him the phonogram and he says the sound). I dictate the words and he writes them, with help on using the correct phonogram when relevant. He marks the words and we review any applicable rules. But we don't camp out on a word if he is unable to spell it on his own, so finishing the list won't imply mastery of the list.

 

In some programs you would do both, so that there is mastery of the method and of the list. In AAS, word cards stay in review until the student can spell them easily. Or, if it seems mastered but it later comes up in a dictation or in student writing and the student misses it, it would go back in review again, and the student would also work on analysis and the related spelling strategies again, until the student can easily teach it back to you and easily spell it. 

 

Sometimes kids just need more time actually applying the things they've learned, so you may want to use the words he's missing in his writing to give him those opportunities. This article on automaticity has some ideas that can help (it's based on AAS, but there are ideas you can use with other phonogram-based methods too). If he has trouble explaining a word, trouble correcting it, or trouble knowing what strategy to use to spell various parts of the word (like a visual, phonetic, rules-based, morphemic, or other strategy), add it to a "tricky words" list.

 

You can use a tricky words list for periodic review, or as a list of words for him to double check in his writing. When words are mastered, they can drop off the list and others might be added, etc... 

[Holly]

We like Spelling Wisdom for prepared dictation.  Have you looked at Kathy Jo's Spelling Journal?  We've been using those alongside Spelling Wisdom when they need to study a word.

[silver]

Thanks, everyone. I'll take a look at R&S spelling and SCM's spelling to see if they could work.