sunshineslp Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) I have a boy that's intimidated by tough topics. He shuts down if things get too abstract or deep but yet he is very good at some mental math concepts. I wouldn't say he's terrible mathy though. I am using right start now and it's going well. We are moving to Singapore standards 1a (just to cover any gaps and move more slowly) in a month or so. He's in 2nd grade and finishing up RS B. do you think Singapore is a good choice for this type of kid? I wonder sometimes if I've made a good choice. Of course we can change if need be, but I hate waffling. So what would you say is a good math that is strong on the mental/conceptual side but doesn't overwhelm the student with too many concepts too quickly? Is SM fit the bill? I've heard of MiF but after oolong at it, I felt it was so textbook'y. I thought SM looked easier to teach. Also, separate question, of using CLE, what would you add to cover the conceptual side that CLE lacks? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited December 30, 2015 by sunshineslp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiara.I Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 So, what I'm not clear on... If RS B is working well, why wouldn't *that* be the conceptual math to use? It's a very conceptual program. It does well at teaching non-mathy kids. Why move away from it? I haven't noticed a ton of gaps in RS. There may be some, but it covers every topic in my area's outcomes, easily. If you want to slow it down, you can add more games and do fewer lessons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshineslp Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 I just don't care to stay with it. I don't like C and my son is getting frustrated with it. It skips around too much and it's not visual enough (he does better with worksheets daily, which RS does not have). The excessive amount of manipulative are distracting to him. He's very much ready to move on from the great foundation it's laid. I also need something a bit less parent intensive. I'm schooling four kids and RS is too much for me to get done with all four. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacell Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Funny because I was planning to use my Right Start to cover conceptual gaps in CLE. Singapore is very visual but not as gentle as Math in Focus. Ronit Bird is super gentle - aimed at dyscalculia. If he truly understands the concepts in RS B, I would think that would carry over to a lot of areas as a great foundation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshineslp Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 Yes he does understand some tricky concepts due to RSB. I don't like how it skips around. It's not mastery in my mind. Not really. And he needs something different at this point but I do firmly believe RSA and B to be crucial. I think you can introduce concepts with RS for sure. Have you looked at the Activities for Al Abacus book? It teaches all the concepts and is great. It's like a mini version of the full program. You could use it along with CLE. I actually considered this too. But for my guy I think (or I'm hoping) that SM will fit the bill. He's just a "math hesitant" guy. I'd say, he's good at it but it can stress him out. I'm hoping sm won't do that. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syllieann Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Sounds like you are looking for math mammoth. The concepts are presented very incrementally, there is plenty of practice, and it is mastery. It has chapter reviews and cumulative reviews for each chapter. There is also some review built into the word problems. Concepts are presented pictorially. You could add manipulatives, but it sounds like you would be better off without them. The aio work text has instruction right in it. It is great for fostering independence, and it's unlikely to be eaten by a toddler. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshineslp Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 We tried it. I own grades 1-3. It was truly hated by my kids and it was drudgery for me too, really! It's too much on a page and for a math anxious kid, the second he looked at it he was crying:-/ I wanted to like it and I still might try it later on when he's a bit older. SM is visually more appealing to him. And maybe CLE would work too. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacell Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 CLE has some pretty generous samples to print. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshineslp Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 Yes I've seen! And they sent me a free light unit to try too. Just call and ask[emoji5] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) I'd just try the samples from Singapore, Math Mammoth, and CLE and see what he likes best. There are reasons why any one of them might not be right (Singapore can be too tough for a math hesitant kid, MM can be too many problems and too intimidating pages, CLE is lacking in the conceptual end) so I'd follow the kid's lead. I don't use CLE, but I would just supplement by doing the sort of fun math stuff that's in the relaxed math thread (it's pinned on the gen.ed. board now). Read living math books, do math and art projects, try tricky problems like the ones in Process Skills in Problem Solving or the Ed Zaccaro books... ETA: Also, now that you have a sense of how RS works, just pull out the abacus and card games again if you think he needs them. You have a sense of how they work and you can return to them even if you stop using RS. Edited December 30, 2015 by Farrar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshineslp Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 Thanks;) do you think SM is too tough that is isn't able to be adapted? What I mean is, if it gets too complex is it easy to slow down or alter? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgrace Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Actually, I'd look again at Math in Focus. It won't have any gaps/conceptual leaps to make and is just as strong as Singapore/Math Mammoth/etc. conceptually. It is visually appealing and seems to have just enough problems. It's not at all confusing--do a textbook lesson, practice problems, complete the workbook for that section. My not particularly mathy child and my mathy one did well with it. I really prefer the way RS C teaches multiplication and division, though I preferred the way RS teaches addition and subtraction to Singapore as well). If you want to try CLE, it's been pretty easy for me to add conceptual teaching. Add Singapore FAN math Process Skills and Problem solving books, beginning at the first book even if the math is too easy, for word problems. I go through each booklet and add notes to supplement any missing conceptual teaching. Education Unboxed (free online) and c rods will teach the concepts behind the elementary math when you need to do that. If you already own Math Mammoth 1-3, you can use her instruction to teach missing concepts too if you can't find it on education unboxed or want a different approach. When you get further, the resources will change, but the idea is the same. CLE, at least the level's I've used, didn't need as much additional conceptual as I expected. I started with 5th grade though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshineslp Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 So you're saying you felt CLE wasn't AS lacking in conceptual? So MiF- when I looked people said that it was less independent than SM because there were many lessons where there was no corresponding worksheet, only textbook work. That turned me off because I NEED to be able to teach a lesson and then (hopefully) have him complete a lesson independently while I then teach math to the others...) do you disagree and think MiF is as independent as SM? Well, truth is I already bought all of SM standards for level 1. So I'll try it. But if it's a terrible disaster I'll consider CLE or MiF. Conceptual is important to me. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I think Singapore will probably be fine. It's adaptable in many ways with different books to give extra practice or more challenge, etc. In general, I think it's easier to teach than MiF because it has the HIG. You've got Singapore. It'll be fine. And if it's not, no big, you'll have learned something and you'll change gears. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Since you have it, using SM is definitely the best plan for now. But since you asked about CLE, I completely agree with sbgrace: If you want to try CLE, it's been pretty easy for me to add conceptual teaching. Add Singapore FAN math Process Skills and Problem solving books, beginning at the first book even if the math is too easy, for word problems. I go through each booklet and add notes to supplement any missing conceptual teaching. Education Unboxed (free online) and c rods will teach the concepts behind the elementary math when you need to do that. If you already own Math Mammoth 1-3, you can use her instruction to teach missing concepts too if you can't find it on education unboxed or want a different approach. When you get further, the resources will change, but the idea is the same. CLE, at least the level's I've used, didn't need as much additional conceptual as I expected. I started with 5th grade though. CLE has this reputation for not teaching concepts, but they do a pretty decent job of it overall. Does CLE teach concepts as well as a program like MM or BA? No. But in almost every case the teaching is there - they just don't stress it as strongly as a couple other programs. The only place I can think of where CLE truly doesn't teach the concept is division of fractions. Multi digit multiplication and long division are a place where I would like to see better terminology and more discussion of what you are actually doing with these operations. Other than those I can't think of a place where CLE is lacking in conceptual teaching... They do a great job with place value, fractions (with the one exception), decimals, single digit multiplication and division, exponents, negative numbers... CLE is lacking in strong word problems and building problem solving skills. Some people don't see this as a problem in the early elementary years, but if you do it is easy to add this in. Personally, I haven't bothered until the 3rd/4th grade level. At that point I added MM for my oldest and BA for #2. I like what I have heard about/seen of the FAN books, so that might be the direction I go for #3. For anyone using CLE, beefing up this portion of CLE is where I would recommend focusing my resources - not on the so called lack of conceptual teaching. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgrace Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) So you're saying you felt CLE wasn't AS lacking in conceptual? So MiF- when I looked people said that it was less independent than SM because there were many lessons where there was no corresponding worksheet, only textbook work. That turned me off because I NEED to be able to teach a lesson and then (hopefully) have him complete a lesson independently while I then teach math to the others...) do you disagree and think MiF is as independent as SM? Well, truth is I already bought all of SM standards for level 1. So I'll try it. But if it's a terrible disaster I'll consider CLE or MiF. Conceptual is important to me. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Huh. I used MIF 1B through 5A. I don't recall anywhere that had textbook without a workbook. It would be text instruction/teaching, guided practice (to be worked together) in the textbook, independent practice in the textbook, workbook over that same material. I don't recall any variation in that. Perhaps there was and it just didn't catch me at the time or forgot over the years. My son did the independent practice in the textbook and the workbook sections of MIF independently. I meant that CLE has more conceptual teaching than I expected based on reading I had done. I didn't need to supplement instruction nearly as much as I anticipated. TracyP explained more. I think SM Standards will probably work fine for you! Had I realized you owned it, I wouldn't have made other suggestions! Edited December 31, 2015 by sbgrace 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshineslp Posted January 1, 2016 Author Share Posted January 1, 2016 (edited) That's ok, that's what i wanted was other suggestions! Just in case this fails miserably. He gets frustrated with the advanced topics of right start at times (multiplications and division introduced in RSB...)but he does ok. I just worry I hope with SM it doesn't push to hard to fast and make him hate it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited January 1, 2016 by sunshineslp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer2911mom Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 If Singapore is too much for him, you could try BJU math, which is conceptual but good for kids who are a bit intimidated by tough topics. I find it to be middle ground between Singapore and CLE as far as having all the conceptual teaching I want, but also more of a traditional format. It offers facts sheets on the CD in the TM, so the practice is available but not as scheduled out as CLE. It does some basic bar modeling starting in the 5th grade level. It is very explicit in teaching the concepts, and in such a gentle way that it's not difficult to catch on. I like the word problems as well. We did RS A and half of B. Hope this helps, Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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