JoJosMom Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 What are your opinions on the best progression through the sciences? When I went to high school, we started with Biology and followed with Chemistry and Physics, and that's really the extent of my experience (clearly, this is not my strength). By next year (9th), DD will have completed Algebra 1. Is there a better place to start than Biology? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Physics first is the most logical choice, since it is the most basic of sciences. All systems must obey the laws of physics. Chemistry is essentially an application of physics. Biology contains a lot of chemistry, so it is easier if the student had preceding chemistry. In practice, however, it is the math skills that drive the course sequence. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess in the Burbs Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 So if the child has the math done, and you do physics, chemistry, and Biology order.... are you using the books that normally would be chosen or some easier version of physics for this 9th grade class? DS wants to do physics for 9th. He's doing Apologia Physical this year. Can he jump to physics? He's doing geometry for math this year. Or will I need to find some integrated physics/chem book? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 So if the child has the math done, and you do physics, chemistry, and Biology order.... are you using the books that normally would be chosen or some easier version of physics for this 9th grade class? DS wants to do physics for 9th. He's doing Apologia Physical this year. Can he jump to physics? He's doing geometry for math this year. Or will I need to find some integrated physics/chem book? I am underwhelmed with the quality of the high school textbooks I have seen. I have used an algebra based College Physics text (Knight) for my kids in 9th grade. Math is the deciding factor. For a student who is solid in algebra 1 and has some basic trigonometry (that can be taught in 30 minutes), this is an appropriate level. Both my kids were taking geometry concurrently with physics. There is one section in the second semester that requires logarithms; it is perfectly acceptable to skip this material. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJosMom Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 I am underwhelmed with the quality of the high school textbooks I have seen. I have used an algebra based College Physics text (Knight) for my kids in 9th grade. Math is the deciding factor. For a student who is solid in algebra 1 and has some basic trigonometry (that can be taught in 30 minutes), this is an appropriate level. Both my kids were taking geometry concurrently with physics. There is one section in the second semester that requires logarithms; it is perfectly acceptable to skip this material. Sigh. I wish I could do this. I can teach my kid to argue. Science? Not so much. She's taking Physical Science from Derek Owens this year, and will take the B half of AoPS Intro to Algebra in the Spring. Perhaps I will email Mr. Owens and seek his opinion on Physics for my student next year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess in the Burbs Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 well do share if you get an answer! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdj2027 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Math has not been a problem in either physics (Derek Owens) or chemistry so far. It is the conceptual understanding that comes hard at times (quantum theory, mechanics are his particular foes). He took Algebra 1 with Derek which turns out to be an awesome thing to have done because he is really solid in it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsMe Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Physics first is the most logical choice, since it is the most basic of sciences. All systems must obey the laws of physics. Chemistry is essentially an application of physics. Biology contains a lot of chemistry, so it is easier if the student had preceding chemistry. In practice, however, it is the math skills that drive the course sequence. Then why do they have Biology in 9th or 10th? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Ds took Physics with Derek Owens in 9th grade after having completed Algebra 1 in 8th grade. You may read my review here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Then why do they have Biology in 9th or 10th? Because, as I said in the post you quoted: "In practice, however, it is the math skills that drive the course sequence." Since the math education in public schools is so delayed compared to other parts of the world, many 9th and 10th graders do not have the necessary math background to successfully take a math based physics course. They take biology because it is the only option without math. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJosMom Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 Ds took Physics with Derek Owens in 9th grade after having completed Algebra 1 in 8th grade. You may read my review here. Thank you, Sue. This was a very helpful post. We are only two chapters in to Physical Science, so this is very encouraging! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess in the Burbs Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Sue, that you for the review. My son would prefer Physics, and while I know he has the math I was concerned about doing it in 9th. I talked with my dh about it and your review and he thinks we should go for it. Thank you!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Then why do they have Biology in 9th or 10th? Regentrude is right on this. They take Biology first because it requires no math. However, I think with a good ICP class in 8th, there is enough introduction to Physics & Chemistry that the Biology first sequence makes a lot of sense and kids can handle the math of Physics far better a couple of years later. I'm sure Physics first works great for more mathy kids. But we were very happy staying with the traditional American sequence here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Then why do they have Biology in 9th or 10th? This is typically an older sequencing. There is a five year difference in age between my oldest and my youngest child. At our public high school, the two older children took studied biology for 9th grade and chemistry for 10th grade. When my youngest started there, he studied conceptual physics for 9th grade, did chemistry for 10th grade with me, and returned to the high school for AP Biology. The "physics first" sequence really does make more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 The "physics first" sequence really does make more sense. What would make even more sense would be not to compartmentalize sciences into single year packages, but to teach all sciences concurrently through middle and high school as is done elsewhere in the world. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 What would make even more sense would be not to compartmentalize sciences into single year packages, but to teach all sciences concurrently through middle and high school as is done elsewhere in the world. That could probably apply to math too and the separate year for geometry. The longer I homeschool and the more I learn, the more dissatisfied I become overall with math and science education in this country, and this comes from someone who is definitely more language arts oriented. Sailor Dude really loved his Physics course at the public high school, but in hind sight, I wish I had followed your (regentrude) advice and just taught him from the Knight book. I've tackled at least three college- level science texts since then and I am not so freaked out about doing it on my own. If you as the homeschooling parent think there is any chance your child will pursue a science career or even a science minor, please, please, take your time and research the science course sequence. Research the materials. If you can in any way shape or form, teach from good college-level texts, do so. Well-written, accessible college texts do a much better job of providing information for your student than a bare-bones high school science text often does. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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