Another question about science credits

[Faithr]

So I just posted about trying to find an online class for my dd.  I am wondering about people who've done alternative courses for their science credits.  My dd wants to go to a 4 year college.  She is a huge theater buff so we are looking at colleges that have a classical oriented core and then a theater major.   I am just wondering if she can get away with 2 lab sciences but in Physical Science (not Physics but intro to chem/physics) for a 9th grade science credit and then something like Environmental Science for a second lab science.  Would that really limit her options?  Anybody done anything like that and gotten away with it???

 

Thanks.

[Jenny in Florida]

So I just posted about trying to find an online class for my dd.  I am wondering about people who've done alternative courses for their science credits.  My dd wants to go to a 4 year college.  She is a huge theater buff so we are looking at colleges that have a classical oriented core and then a theater major.   I am just wondering if she can get away with 2 lab sciences but in Physical Science (not Physics but intro to chem/physics) for a 9th grade science credit and then something like Environmental Science for a second lab science.  Would that really limit her options?  Anybody done anything like that and gotten away with it???

 

Thanks.

 

My son (now a dual major in musical theatre and dance) had the following science credits on his transcript:

 

Honors Earth-Space Science (FLVS)

Science in Popular Culture w/Lab (Homegrown course following his interests)

Chemistry w/Lab (ALEKS with home-designed lab sequence)

Physics (FLVS)

Astronomy (one-semester dual enrollment at local community college)

 

He applied to 11 schools and was accepted at nine of them. No one questioned his transcript at all.

[katilac]

So I just posted about trying to find an online class for my dd.  I am wondering about people who've done alternative courses for their science credits.  My dd wants to go to a 4 year college.  She is a huge theater buff so we are looking at colleges that have a classical oriented core and then a theater major.   I am just wondering if she can get away with 2 lab sciences but in Physical Science (not Physics but intro to chem/physics) for a 9th grade science credit and then something like Environmental Science for a second lab science.  Would that really limit her options?  Anybody done anything like that and gotten away with it???

 

Thanks.

 

Do you mean 2 lab sciences plus more science without labs, or 2 lab sciences period?

 

The latter would be much more limiting overall. Both would limit her options as far as more selective schools go.

 

There are plenty of colleges with plenty of different admission requirements, so it really depends on where she wants to wind up - and, if this is the 13-yr-old, her mind may change a few times before graduation. I wouldn't have thought even a year ago that my oldest would be meeting with math departments and considering a math major, but that's what's happening.

 

Kids who think they are "humanities only" or "STEM only" as freshmen can and do change their minds, so my preference is for a standard college prep sequence, with special interests pursued alongside and in addition. 

 

The best thing is to look at requirements of specific colleges that meet her criteria of classically oriented with theater major. 

 

Then look at the requirements of your state system and any local-ish colleges, without regard to majors. 

 

Pay special attention to the ones on each list that are financially feasible without counting on tremendous amounts of aid, and don't make any decisions that would knock those off of the list. 

[Chrysalis Academy]

I think, cautiously yet optimistically, that the whole idea of science credits in high school is slowly changing with the NGSS, and that homeschoolers should feel confident in designing nontraditional courses.  Seriously.  The NGSS have a lot of emphasis on earth, space and environmental sciences that don't fit into the traditional bio-chem-physics buckets, and they emphasize crosscutting ideas and integration. If I were to design such courses (and I plan to) I would definitely refer to the NGSS and how my course was helping my student meet those learning goals. And then I'd design the course that interested my student the most, and that would provide them with skills and knowledge that would help them to be a scientifically literate adult. Particularly if they weren't a STEM-focused student.

 

But, that's just an opinion, no experience of actually getting a student into college!  But check out a couple of ideas here:

 

A flexible set of materials that could be used as a year-long course in Global Systems Science, with lab, or pieces could be incorporated into other courses:

http://www.globalsystemsscience.org/

 

Next Generation Science Standards

http://www.nextgenscience.org/next-generation-science-standards

 

 

Curriculum planning info from National Science Teacher's Association:

http://ngss.nsta.org/About.aspx

 

 

 

[Faithr]

Thanks for your responses.  I did the standard science thing with my oldest two.  Actually we only did 2 lab sciences for each of them.  But neither of them was hampered by this.  But I feel like maybe standards are shifting as I home educate!  My middle son did three years of lab science (Bio. Chem and Physics) and he's the one who dropped out!  My youngest son has so many issues; he is clearly going to spend time at the community college and then he may or may not get an associates and switch to a 4 year school for a BA.  He's kind of unpredictable; he's got both LDs and ED issues.

 

My youngest really is a liberal arts girl all the way.  What I would really like to do for science is 1) Finish Physical Science 2)Environmental Science 3) Health  For math I'd love to be able to just do Algebra, Geometry, Consumer/business math.  I am already dreading the very idea of Algebra II with her!    She is very talented in other ways.  Right now she is doing make up for the local community theater production of A Christmas Carol and she is on top of it! In her areas of interest she is 14 going on 30.  I am proud of her but she definitely has strengths and weaknesses are making high school a bit painful!

 

[Mom22ns]

My youngest really is a liberal arts girl all the way.  What I would really like to do for science is 1) Finish Physical Science 2)Environmental Science 3) Health  For math I'd love to be able to just do Algebra, Geometry, Consumer/business math.  I am already dreading the very idea of Algebra II with her!    She is very talented in other ways.  Right now she is doing make up for the local community theater production of A Christmas Carol and she is on top of it! In her areas of interest she is 14 going on 30.  I am proud of her but she definitely has strengths and weaknesses are making high school a bit painful!

 

All the schools my kids have applied to have listed 3 years of science as a requirement. I don't think doing Physical and Environmental for 2 of the 3 will be a problem, but I would toss in another year of science.

 

OTOH, if she does those two and then has a better idea of where she will go to college, she can check their requirements and make the decision based on that. If she decides she wants to go somewhere that requires 3 science credits, she can always throw one more in her senior year.

[kiana]

For a situation like this another option could be (if fiscally feasible) to do some sort of one-semester science for non-majors as DE senior year. Geology, Astronomy, and other off-the-beaten-path options would work just fine. This would satisfy a science credit for college admissions and also give her one class less to take in college, where she could use the potentially freed-up time to do more classes in her major. 

[Kareni]

I'd strongly recommend looking at admission requirements for several colleges or universities that your daughter might apply to.  At a minimum, look at the requirements for admission to your state university.

 

It's possible that two lab sciences might be a minimum requirement, but doing three sciences would make your daughter a stronger candidate.

 

I think too that the majority of colleges are looking for a minimum of Algebra 2, and many are looking for even higher levels of math.

 

 

... I'd love to be able to just do Algebra, Geometry, Consumer/business math. 

 

 

Also, look at the college degree requirements for a few possible majors that your daughter might be interested in.  Many, many college degrees require precalculus for many majors.  It would be a real challenge to face upper level math in college if this is all she does.

 

We tried to have our homeschooling open as many doors as possible for our daughter.  Taking challenging math and science was part of that plan.  And my daughter went on to major in Latin at college; she also minored in Geology. 

 

Regards,

Kareni

[kiana]

Oh my, I misread the math thing the first time around as well.

 

For math I would really recommend doing something like algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2, and then DE college algebra or stats depending on where she's planning on going to college and what they require. I would recommend stats if she knows it will be acceptable, but some colleges with good theatre departments require college algebra instead. If this is fiscally unfeasible, I would try a self-study college algebra and CLEP test. This should satisfy her college graduation requirement at most schools and again free her up to concentrate on her major.

 

She does not want a long gap between algebra classes. The students who struggle the hardest in my college math classes are the people who don't like math and know they aren't good at it and didn't take it senior year, then put it off in college. Now they're seniors and they MUST pass the class and they have forgotten literally everything from high school math.

[MerryAtHope]

The colleges we looked at all preferred 3 sciences. Some said 1 had to be a lab, some said 2. Many specified that either biology or chemistry needed to be one of the sciences. Our local CC requires biology with lab on the transcript. I let my oldest do Physical science, robotics, and biology for his 3. My youngest will do the traditional 3 and probably advanced biology, but she is interested in going on in biology. 

 

Health is not usually considered a science credit, though it includes aspects of science. I would not put that on the transcript as a science credit. I'd strongly encourage considering biology or chemistry as one of the three, but let the other two be non-traditional or interest-oriented if you want. 

[Mom22ns]

Oh my, I misread the math thing the first time around as well.

 

For math I would really recommend doing something like algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2, and then DE college algebra or stats depending on where she's planning on going to college and what they require. I would recommend stats if she knows it will be acceptable, but some colleges with good theatre departments require college algebra instead. If this is fiscally unfeasible, I would try a self-study college algebra and CLEP test. This should satisfy her college graduation requirement at most schools and again free her up to concentrate on her major.

 

I'd throw out there that if the college will accept the College Algebra CLEP, it really just covers algebra 2. I got a study guide for it and found there was not a single problem that wasn't covered in Lial's Intemediate Algebra. It is definitely far easier than actually passing College Algebra.

[swimmermom3]

I think, cautiously yet optimistically, that the whole idea of science credits in high school is slowly changing with the NGSS, and that homeschoolers should feel confident in designing nontraditional courses.  Seriously.  The NGSS have a lot of emphasis on earth, space and environmental sciences that don't fit into the traditional bio-chem-physics buckets, and they emphasize crosscutting ideas and integration. If I were to design such courses (and I plan to) I would definitely refer to the NGSS and how my course was helping my student meet those learning goals. And then I'd design the course that interested my student the most, and that would provide them with skills and knowledge that would help them to be a scientifically literate adult. Particularly if they weren't a STEM-focused student.

 

But, that's just an opinion, no experience of actually getting a student into college!  But check out a couple of ideas here:

 

A flexible set of materials that could be used as a year-long course in Global Systems Science, with lab, or pieces could be incorporated into other courses:

http://www.globalsystemsscience.org/

 

Next Generation Science Standards

http://www.nextgenscience.org/next-generation-science-standards

 

 

Curriculum planning info from National Science Teacher's Association:

http://ngss.nsta.org/About.aspx

 

Rose, thanks so much for keeping us up to date on some of this. Now that I am knee-deep into our custom-designed Earth science/marine biology class, I can't for the life of me see why this wouldn't be an option for a high school student. 

 

In my MBA program, you'd spend a bunch of time with your course work in marketing, finance, accounting, and management and then at the end of those sequences, you'd have "the cake" - the case study class where you put it all together. Our class this year, feels like that. Ds did the physics, the chemistry, the biology, and now we are seeing if he is truly scientifically literate and can he take what he learned and apply it to the world around him and in ways that are relevant to him?  It's all about synthesis.

 

I always thought Earth Science was the poor cousin to the others and that's why you don't do it in high school. I was sooooooo wrong.  We are learning so much, I think our heads are going to explode.

 

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

Rose, thanks so much for keeping us up to date on some of this. Now that I am knee-deep into our custom-designed Earth science/marine biology class, I can't for the life of me see why this wouldn't be an option for a high school student. 

 

In my MBA program, you'd spend a bunch of time with your course work in marketing, finance, accounting, and management and then at the end of those sequences, you'd have "the cake" - the case study class where you put it all together. Our class this year, feels like that. Ds did the physics, the chemistry, the biology, and now we are seeing if he is truly scientifically literate and can he take what he learned and apply it to the world around him and in ways that are relevant to him?  It's all about synthesis.

 

I always thought Earth Science was the poor cousin to the others and that's why you don't do it in high school. I was sooooooo wrong.  We are learning so much, I think our heads are going to explode.

 

 

 

 

I agree so strongly.  Trying not to plan ahead too far, but I'm thinking we will save GSS and do it in a very synthesized capstone year later in high school. I can see covering this alongside modern history, economics, and reading a lot of the classics of the environmental movement alongside very recent books on climate change and modern economics, which would include economic psychology/how people make decisions about big/long term questions.  And include a capstone project that will be focused on a relevant (local?) problem that she could get her arms around and apply her knowledge to.  

 

Even before this, I'm really trying to figure out how to make all the sciences more integrated in high school. We've done it very successfully the last two years and I'm not sure why we couldn't do truly integrated science throughout high school. it would take more work to put together, because most materials aren't written that way, but I think its doable.  I think the risk is trying to cover too much and failing to go deep enough, but that's a risk with any science class.  What I don't want to do is to try and cover all the sciences in one year, but I want to try to cover all the sciences in an integrated way across multiple years. I can't find a perfect roadmap for that. I should probably be looking at international textbooks.

 

Partly my problem is that I have no trouble evaluating materials and understanding connections in biology, ecology, earth system science, but I'm less knowledgeable about physics and chemistry, so it's harder to see the ideal points of connection and how to integrate those concepts in at just the right moment.  And what's essential and what isn't.

[laughing lioness]

fwiw: BJUP has Physical Science listed for 9th grade for everyone doing their pkg. Many BJUP kids do 3 yrs of science, counting Phys. as one. Also, many kids do 3-4 yrs of science with no lab. Lab is often counted as an extra 1/2 credit on the transcript.

 

It's totally fine to do science out of sequence, or split the class between 2 yrs. For instance 1/2 credit of Bio 9th grade yr. 1/2 credit 10 gr, etc. 

Last year ds had the opportunity to do 1/2 cr Chem lab on-line even though he was taking Adv. Bio at that time. 

Health is considered an elective. 

I would try to get through Alg II, if only for ACT/SAT test, as it tests through Alg. II. If Math isn't your kids thing, I'd check out TT, LoF, MUS or ACE to get familiar with the math and do a test prep course so she has strategies in place. Test scores= scholarship money. For the transcript Alg I and Geo with Biz math is still counted as 3 math credits, so it would be considered an VoTech, possibly Academic versus an Honors transcript, which would show 4 yrs of academic math and 4 yrs of academic science.