WahM Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 For those who have switched to BA from Sinngaoore PM did you find your dc missed/needed that hands on aspect of being introduced a topic the way PM introcudes concepts and practices them before going on to pictorial and then independent study practice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateingr Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 My son used Singapore 2A and 2B before Beast Academy. I didn't find he needed any hands-on extras with Beast. I suspect this is partly due to a maturing mind that has become more comfortable with abstractions. But it's also partly due to the excellent visual representations that Beast uses in the Guides. They seem carefully chosen to convey the concepts well, so they're very effective despite not being concrete manipulatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Didn't "switch," added Beast. While I love the creative problem solving in BA, the mental math and strategies for manipulating numbers that are so strong in PM are not the strong suit of BA. I like both. Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 We switched but discovered DS8 was missing on computational skills (double digit division...) so we added back SM 5 albeit lightly. My son hates the monotony of SM, but if think for this particular kid, it's needed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WahM Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 Thanks for the input. It's been very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetpea3829 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I'm with Bill. We added Beast and love how Beast and SM complement each other, filling math needs that the other doesn't. To answer your question, I have not found my DS to really need the hands-on concrete aspect of SM when he is working with Beast. But...he also doesn't really need it for SM either. He's more of a math discussion kid. He does pretty well on his own, absorbing most of the concepts pretty readily...but when he is stuck, he likes to sit with me and discuss it...go over it a few different ways. At most, I may need to draw some pictures. He never really did need the concrete manipulatives...even as a preschooler. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I also don't think manipulative (or lack thereof) are an issue in BA. The lessons are very clear, and have pictorial support in the text. It is just the nature of what's being taught that is so different. Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 It is just the nature of what's being taught that is so different. Bill This is it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal_Bear Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I find value in doing both. We are doing SM first and follow with Beast. I find that the experience is deeper/richer by learning the topic via SM and then playing/discovering/exploring with Beast. It is also a way for me to keep math interesting and challenging without rushing into the calculus trap that RR (AOPS) talks about. That being said I still quite like using SM's IP and CWP as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeviolin Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 For my very mathy-child, the hand-holding teaching of mental math in SM was very frustrating. He wants to do it his way. That may be partly age. But if his way is correct and not overly cumbersome, then I can't fault him. For my non-mathy child, the mental math sections of SM were frustrating because she wanted one way to do the problems and practice it a few times. AFTER she felt comfortable with what she was doing and why, we could talk about other ways to do it. BA works well for my son because it gives him a chance to practice concepts without killing his love for mathematical thinking. It was good for my non-mathy child because it introduced how mathy people might approach a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WahM Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 I'm still stuck as to which would be a better fit. I guess I should just pick one. She really loves the concrete presentation PM offers and the game ideas, but I know she would love the format of BA and the challenge. She gets bored and starts to complain and get distracted with the easier problems of PM, but on the challenging problems her focus is much better and she doesn't whine about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dramorellis Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Why pick just one? We use MiF as our spine and then add in BA when it makes sense. Sometimes we take a break and do only BA. I think they compliment each other nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WahM Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 I'd prefer to just use one program and use our extra time for other fun supplements instead of another full program. Just my personal preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I'm still stuck as to which would be a better fit. I guess I should just pick one. She really loves the concrete presentation PM offers and the game ideas, but I know she would love the format of BA and the challenge. She gets bored and starts to complain and get distracted with the easier problems of PM, but on the challenging problems her focus is much better and she doesn't whine about them. I'd prefer to just use one program and use our extra time for other fun supplements instead of another full program. Just my personal preference. Same here. PM does have its "boring" aspects. Learning the standard algorithms isn't going to make many children do cartwheels. Let's be honest. But for the scaffold of mental math and developing mastery of the standard argorythms PM is hard to beat. But math adept students typically need a break for the "boring" stuff. The IP Singapore books help, creative MEP problems help, and Zaccaro books help. There are no doubt some students who don't require the methodical approach of PM (which is more streamlined than most programs in any case), but mine does. For him the creative part is generally more natural, certainly more engaging, but practical competency has its place too. BA is a great antidote for breaking up "boring" work with creative challenges. I just don't think BA does a great job of teaching the "boring" parts. BA seems to take it as a given that the "boring parts" are covered. For students who are such math intuitive that practicing the standard algorythms or mental math strategies is unnecessary then BA alone might be a good fit. Otherwise, it seems like an exceptional good depth-curriculum/supplement that serves the place of bringing math-joy into the mix. I love BA for that. Mileage may vary. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerforest Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 BA is the only math curriculum we used in its entirety, and we did very little math until we started BA 3A when it first came out. That was in March 2012 so DD was in 2nd when we started. We had basically just done living math before then. But, it's not the only curriculum we've ever used. We have used so many things, even a couple Singapore books. But, for her learning style and my teaching style, it works best for us to pull from a variety of sources. She's intuitive about many math concepts, and she's a very strong math student. However, she doesn't particularly like math. So, we spend a lot of time looking at math from different perspectives. We went from BA 4C with lots of other supplements to AoPS pre-algebra just about 3 years after we started BA. She did really well with chapter 1, but then she decided she didn't know anyone else doing pre-algebra yet so she didn't want to continue yet. In her case, it didn't matter if she had the skills, she didn't have the interest, and she was already ahead, so I didn't push it. We stepped back and did lots of fun math again--games, puzzles, reading. Did BA 4D which was all fun and review. Now we're back to pre-algebra, but I've accepted that we won't stick to a single curriculum for this either. She goes through some things so quickly and others need different perspectives. She's in 6th now, but if it takes us 2 years to get through pre-algebra, I really won't care because I'm going back to our roots of being very focused on a living math approach. I'm just sharing to explain that I don't think that there is a single recommended path here. I think BA would be perfect on its own, and it might have worked like that for us if we weren't always outpacing it because of the publishing schedule. She never liked Singapore, but thrived in BA. You can find examples of pretty much every combination and progression of BA and other math programs. Kids will get a superior math instruction using Singapore or BA so you'll just have to choose based on your required learning and teaching styles and interests. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Did BA 4D which was all fun and review. . Last chapter of 4D was review? I haven't seen counting/probability like the way Beast does anywhere else. I am asking because I would love to know what other materials you used for that topic specifically. DS 8, who otherwise flies through BA, is having a tough time with some concepts in that chapter. I would love to reinforce with extra material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerforest Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Last chapter of 4D was review? I haven't seen counting/probability like the way Beast does anywhere else. I am asking because I would love to know what other materials you used for that topic specifically. DS 8, who otherwise flies through BA, is having a tough time with some concepts in that chapter. I would love to reinforce with extra material. I outsourced that chapter to DH because I despise probability, and DH loves it. There was no arguing so I assume it went fine. I don't think she liked it enough to ask to do more of it, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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