Please help interpret test scores (Very Long)

[Slipper]

Thank you!

[Arcadia]

I don't know how to interpret testing results.  What I can tell is what I experience daily with my two boys who have vastly different processing speeds scores on the WISC-IV. 

 

DS9 100, 50th percentile

DS10 126, 96th percentile

 

DS9 was so slow that we thought he might have ADHD (inattentive).  We had him tested and he didn't fit the profile.  Work that my DS10 took 10 mins to do, took my DS9 close to an hour.  DS9 answers were accurate and free from careless mistakes while DS10 has the occasionally carelessness.  DS9 takes a long time to read a book.  We end up renewing library books because he takes a long time to digest a book (regardless of fiction or non-fiction).

 

I can let DS10 plan his school day but I need to help DS9 plan.  If he starts something time consuming like math first, he may not get anything else done. Instead we have to get the shorter tasks like practicing his instruments for 30mins done first followed by vocabulary/grammar practice for German and do math last.  I am still figuring out how to best help my DS9 so that he has close to as much play time as DS10 and still finish what he wants to finish.

 

I have to nag both my boys to write their math out :(  I think they use their working memory strength to "compensate" for not writing out their math working.

 

Are any of her testers used to children who have anxiety? The testers experience with keeping the child calm when testing would have an effect.

 

Hopefully someone else can interpret the scores for you.  If no one is able to,  aeh at the Davidson gifted issues forum could help if you post there.

 

ETA:

My boys are used to timed and untimed tests.  The testers tells them if the tests are timed one.

 

 

[luuknam]

Some of my thoughts:

 

Did she realize that some of the tests were timed? When I was 10 or so a psych gave me an IQ test once and I didn't realize it was timed, so I was pretty leisurely about it. Which wasn't the end of the world because the psych just wanted to have a general idea of whether he was dealing with a below average, average, or above average kid, but if your daughter didn't realize it was timed, then that would have an effect.

 

If she did realize it was timed but insisted on doing things in her head I'd be curious why. Was she just feeling like that that day, or does she not like writing things down, period? Did she realize that for tests like that, it's better to be a little faster and occasionally get something wrong than to go slower and get 100% right? Or was it an anxiety/perfectionism issue that she feels she *has* to get everything right, even if it'd be better to be a little less accurate.

 

IMO, her scores are lower than they should be because she was working so slowly and purposefully, so she's probably more intelligent than her scores suggest.

[Slipper]

I don't know how to interpret testing results.  What I can tell is what I experience daily with my two boys who have vastly different processing speeds scores on the WISC-IV. 

 

DS9 100, 50th percentile

DS10 126, 96th percentile

 

DS9 was so slow that we thought he might have ADHD (inattentive).  We had him tested and he didn't fit the profile.  Work that my DS10 took 10 mins to do, took my DS9 close to an hour.  DS9 answers were accurate and free from careless mistakes while DS10 has the occasionally carelessness.  DS9 takes a long time to read a book.  We end up renewing library books because he takes a long time to digest a book (regardless of fiction or non-fiction).

 

I can let DS10 plan his school day but I need to help DS9 plan.  If he starts something time consuming like math first, he may not get anything else done. Instead we have to get the shorter tasks like practicing his instruments for 30mins done first followed by vocabulary/grammar practice for German and do math last.  I am still figuring out how to best help my DS9 so that he has close to as much play time as DS10 and still finish what he wants to finish.

 

I have to nag both my boys to write their math out :(  I think they use their working memory strength to "compensate" for not writing out their math working.

 

Are any of her testers used to children who have anxiety? The testers experience with keeping the child calm when testing would have an effect.

 

Hopefully someone else can interpret the scores for you.  If no one is able to,  aeh at the Davidson gifted issues forum could help if you post there.

 

ETA:

My boys are used to timed and untimed tests.  The testers tells them if the tests are timed one.

 

The testers are Lindamood Bell are probably used to anxiety issues as they deal with children who struggle academically. I administered the Iowa Test and CogAt. I would think the psychologist would have experience as we discussed it prior to the test being scheduled. 

 

My daughter reads incredibly fast and retains it well. She also reads books that are considered complex for her age/grade. She can schedule her own day and completes most independently. We bog down with math. She takes twice as long and needs a lot of help. In hindsight, she doesn't write out her math here either. (That's definitely something I will work on this year).

 

Thank you!

[Slipper]

Some of my thoughts:

 

Did she realize that some of the tests were timed? When I was 10 or so a psych gave me an IQ test once and I didn't realize it was timed, so I was pretty leisurely about it. Which wasn't the end of the world because the psych just wanted to have a general idea of whether he was dealing with a below average, average, or above average kid, but if your daughter didn't realize it was timed, then that would have an effect.

 

If she did realize it was timed but insisted on doing things in her head I'd be curious why. Was she just feeling like that that day, or does she not like writing things down, period? Did she realize that for tests like that, it's better to be a little faster and occasionally get something wrong than to go slower and get 100% right? Or was it an anxiety/perfectionism issue that she feels she *has* to get everything right, even if it'd be better to be a little less accurate.

 

IMO, her scores are lower than they should be because she was working so slowly and purposefully, so she's probably more intelligent than her scores suggest.

 

I'm not sure if she realized it or not. We were trying to not cause anxiety, so the psychologist and I had both told her the test was to help me plan for next year's school year and wasn't really about her. Her only worry was that if she didn't do well then it might look bad on my teaching skills. 

 

We talked briefly about it afterwards and she said that she doesn't like writing things down. (She dislikes writing completely). The psychologist noted that she would stop and erase frequently, more than other kids her age. She appeared nervous on the spelling portion. She mis-spelled words like 'laugh' but was able to spell more complex words that gave more phonetic clues. (I know she knows how to spell laugh). 

 

Thanks!

[Arcadia]

 

My daughter reads incredibly fast and retains it well. She also reads books that are considered complex for her age/grade. She can schedule her own day and completes most independently. We bog down with math. She takes twice as long and needs a lot of help. In hindsight, she doesn't write out her math here either.

Mine is just all round slow. Yours is slow only for math. Is she willing to let you sit next to her and mark her work as she do it? For example letting you check if the equations or inequalities are written correctly before she solves them. Also checking if she draw the diagrams for geometry problems correctly before she work out the solution. That has help cut down the time wasted by DS9 for holding everything in his head and then getting distracted by DS10.

 

It could just be the math curriculum of course instead of the child :)

 

ETA:

He does fall asleep almost immediately which is a nice skill to have :) He slept on the plane and in the transit lounge easily.

My oldest on the other hand takes forever to fall asleep :P

[Mike in SA]

Woodcock, to me, is the most telling of the bunch.  It really highlights differences in many different areas, which is completely normal for kids.  DS8 has swings of up to 60 points from one subscore to the next.  I wouldn't discount it.  It gives a great view of relative strengths and weaknesses.

 

Although I do believe that scoring can depend on how the child is feeling that day, it isn't likely to differ by 20 points due to the nature of the test.  What is more interesting to me is how things change on a year-over-year basis, or even two years apart.  We have seen subscores wobble by up to 20 points over that period, as kids develop differently in each space. 

 

Generally, though, the relative strengths and weaknesses stay roughly the same, and that's what is useful.  Don't worry about total IQ, et al - they rarely are of any practical use to parents or kids.

 

[8filltheheart]

My Aspie had radically different scores. The first time he was anxious and didn't want to be there. The second time the psy sat joking around with him for about 30 mins before he started the testing. Ds was relaxed and in a good mood. His 2nd wISC score was over 40 pts higher. (I should clarify that our ds is disabled by his anxiety, so I am not surprised by the difference.)

[Tiramisu]

I think that there could be three things slowing her down in addition to any possible processing speed problem:

1. anxiety (See 8Fill's post above)

2. perfectionism 

3. coordination problem

 

Look up dyspraxia or developmental coordination disorder. You'll read about extreme cases but very subtle motor skills problems can really slow down fluency and written expression. I never suspected that my dd had those weaknesses but once I was told through testing, things about her started to make sense. Educational testing (as opposed to neurospych testing) doesn't carefully sort out the effects of those issues. 

 

The curious thing about your post to me was that my dd's cogat scores in her younger years were very, very high, too.. Based on those and what I saw in real life, I thought she was truly gifted. Then they went down over time and we began to see issues starting in around fourth grade as the academic demands became more complex. She also had anxiety.

 

When we got the first round of testing she was a lot older than your dd, but we had just the WISC done. Bare bones. We were told her weaknesses were due to perfectionism and anxiety. Her processing speed and working memory were relatively low, not terribly low because there were discrepancies in those subtests, too. Her scores were all over the place from the high nineties to single digits in different subtests. A few years later, we got a full neuropsych evaluation and that tester was able to select a variety of tests that showed it wasn't as much a processing weakness as a motor weakness that was bringing her scores down. She also had problems with abstract reasoning, which reminds me of your dd, too. By the way, the neuropychologist told us depression can affect reasoning scores, too, and attributed the results of some tests to that.

 

In our case, the educational testing seemed to indicate ADHD but the neuropsych testing explained it all differently. I'm just throwing that out there because of the similarities.

 

There are workbooks you can get to help with higher order reasoning. I wish I could remember what they are. Perhaps you can search for inference workbooks as a start.

 

Anyway, those middle grades can be tough, but with help here you can learn to accommodate. Once my dd had her emotional stuff treated and found what she really liked, she blossomed and is doing very well in college. She does have a disability plan that enables her to get notes OR a device to record classes. She also can get extra time on tests, which she has rarely used.

 

 

[Slipper]

Thanks again for everyone's advice. These tests were done (in the order posted) within about a 9 month span. I took Arcadia's advice and asked another poster at the Davidson Boards for advice which has been incredibly helpful. Something that I didn't mention here, my daughter's trauma heavily influenced academics. We pulled her out of school in 1st grade. During 2nd she had a complete regression of skills in all areas. School didn't really start for her until 3rd grade and she just finished 4th. It was suggested that there will probably be a lot of fluctuation for another couple of years. 

 

I did talk to my daughter a bit about her test with the psychologist. She knew that the test was timed but felt it was better to be correct than fast. She also said that she didn't write things down because she likes doing things in her head. (She's a bit baffled as to why anyone would want to write things down). She dislikes writing and forms her letters from bottom to top, right to left. (Not even an OT could straighten it out). 

 

She said she wasn't nervous about the test but she wasn't comfortable. (She couldn't explain why not, just said that she wasn't). She starts cognitive behavior therapy this fall with a new therapist to address anxiety issues. Her anxiety is still fairly high. 

[Arcadia]

How is she with cursive? I ask because then she could write from the bottom up if she want to. Could she be ambidextrous or left handed?

 

I think her comment about not being comfortable during the test could be like what my oldest was commenting about the Math Kangaroo test center. The environment wasn't security blanket/comfy couch kind of comfortable. It was rather sterile. The prometric center where he took the scat test was his kind of comfortable, computers in testing cubicles.

 

ETA:

If she is a very sensitive child, she could pick up vibes from the testers regardless how experienced they are. My DS10 would not talk to someone unless he picks up a "good" vibe.

 

I have an elementary school ex-classmate from a domestic violence home. It took years to recover.

[Mike in SA]

Based on your other comments, I'd really listen to the doctor on this one.  Be sure to express where you feel scores are lower than you'd expect, or higher.  Sometimes, there is an explanation, and sometimes, it really doesn't matter at all in terms of being able to function at a very high level.

[Slipper]

Arcadia - She hasn't learned cursive yet but we are starting it this year. I had wondered similarly about if cursive would be easier. I just asked her to write something with both hands and that's a definite no. lol She enjoys building things, crafting and snap circuits type things (robots, levers/pulleys and so on). I don't suspect fine motor problems (in terms of physical problems) but writing is a problem for her. The psychologist and OT both ruled out dysgraphia. 

Her testing areas have been either at home or at Lindamood Bell. (They were aware of her issues and made sure it was a quiet day, lots of privacy, female tester, lots of reinforcement). The only other place was the psychologist office which was nice but not warm. :) It didn't bother me, but she said today that it was not as comfortable as Lindamood Bell.

 

Mike - I did talk to the psychologist and she was concerned that my main worry was over a lower than expected iq. I wasn't able to convey that my worry about the test scores was that they didn't seem to line up with the other scores that she received previously last year. Also, that the advice she gave me (slow down and take more time) also did not line up with other test scores or my experiences with my daughter. I give the doctor a ton of credibility in that she knows what she's doing but it was like we were discussing different children.  Our psychiatrist had also reviewed the first two testing reports (but hasn't had a chance to review the most recent one) and his advice was to challenge her with harder work because she was capable of much more and was working below her ability. (In contrast the psych report indicates that she should slow down and was at the expected level). 

[Mike in SA]

I agree, something sounds out of alignment on the report vs recommendation.  I'd want a detailed explanation to help connect the dots on the reasoning process, but that's probably just me.  I'd want to understand the theory behind the reasoning so that I would know if I were abiding by the spirit of the recommendation, instead of by the letter of it.

 

I really wouldn't know what else to suggest.  With the circumstances, I could see scores varying from test-to-test. 

 

Our psych did allow our older son to re-do a section a few years back, because he felt the testing environment had degraded by that point (6 hours is a LONG time for a child!).  It mattered, too -- the score went up from a grade equivalence of 5 to a grade equivalence of 9, one day later.  It might be worth inquiring about?

 

[Slipper]

She typed up about 16 pages of information including background and other recommendations, so it was thorough, just confusing. We talked for about two hours total. She was confused on some of it as well. She said that based on other tests and my comments, she thought the scores for reading would have been higher. She said that perhaps I didn't understand what most upcoming 5th graders are reading because we homeschool. (She didn't mean for that to sound as offensive as it did). Wherever possible, I've tried to merge the recommendations. Some of them are impossible to merge (such as the psychiatrist suggestion to push harder and the psychologist's recommendation to slow down). In those cases, I've tried to sort out what's most important. In our case, history is more enjoyable so we'll accelerate that one and slow down on science. If I see the time is working out, I can add to science later.

 

I agree that the circumstances of our situation support that we might see a lot of variation so I'll just sort out where I can. :) I don't want to re-test any of it as I worry that would add to the anxiety of the situation. She should take the Explore test this year, so we'll see what that says.