dauphin Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 More info on our situation: DD is 7.5, this will be her first year homeschooling (2nd grade). She is coming from a Montessori school. I adore Montessori methods, materials, and philosophy, but the amount of self-teaching that I think it will take to be prepared to TEACH DD math that way overwhelms me. But don't ask me how much Montessori materials I have purchased....:hide: (*ignore the bead cabinet over there*) I liked the idea of the gentle spiral and VERY thorough coverage in the CLE Math materials. It appealed to my box-checker side and new-to-homeschooling-this-kid anxiety. DD took the placement test and had mastery of a LOT of grade 2 content but lacked a few things to be able to skip to 300s level and I thought I'd rather review some and catch any gaps than jump ahead and risk frustrating her. I think that may have been a mistake because the 200s levels appear to be TOO easy, and that's frustrating for her. We are crossing off most of the addition and subtraction fact reviews, and still most of it is super easy for her. With us doing CLE for Reading and LA also (and that's been all we've been doing since doing an early start this summer), that appears to be TOO MUCH workbooks for her. So what does she not have mastery of yet? fractions subtraction with borrowing (she doesn't have it down cold but gets the idea well enough to solve independently and correct mistakes) geometry (right angles, line segments vs lines, naming line segments) math terminology (factors, product) problem solving with money (although she can add coin values mentally) multiplication (not solid on all times tables, multiplying by 0) she also missed calendar, measurement, and clock skills on the placement test but has quickly knocked those out in the first few LUs of CLE. Likely just a lack of exposure or review IMO. It is my intention to utilize BA, and I think she'd enjoy them but I'm not sure I'm comfortable using it stand-alone. Also, DD took the "Are you ready for BA" and while she answered enough questions to "pass," she required a fair amount of prompting/scaffolding. I'm not sure how OK that is... Although Singapore often appears to be recommended to work alongside BA, when I've looked at it, the delivery just weirds me out. Rightstart speaks to me a LOT more (hello Montessori influence!). But I've heard/read enough comments about how teacher intensive it is (is that mainly 1st edition?) that I have shied away from it. Now I'm back and thinking it might be a better transition? I think I would appreciate the increased emphasis on problem solving skills and mental math skills, as well as deeper conceptual understanding that comes from making mathematical abstractions as concrete as possible. IF we do RS, care to opine about 1st or 2nd Edition? (I have 1st Edition A and all the materials. Don't ask - I think I was thinking of after schooling a few years ago...or for younger DS who is also in school.....naaah). That might tie in to the next question - should we start with C or D? I would say she does not have all of the content of C down pat but much of it would be review. I hear that the beginning part of each level is a review of the previous one...Anyway, if you suggest D for that reason, then currently it is only in 1st Edition although they state that it is expected late summer. I see that they recommend Transition lessons for students moving to C+ (e.g., from 2nd-4th grade) as an intro to the methods/materials. We also have the RS Fractions kit that I did as a review with older DD (GREAT review, BTW!) I also have the entire MM set but if DD is sick of workbooks IDK how much that will help. I already have BA 3A and 3B guides and practice books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiara.I Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 We use RS. If you only have one child (that you're teaching at home), I don't really understand the problem with teacher-intensive. I love RS, but I do see how it might be impossible if you're homeschooling 6 kids. ;) But it doesn't sound like you are? I just *expected* to need to be sitting with my children doing math for the first while. Or at least sitting with them and doing the lesson, they can often do the worksheet part on their own. Ed. 1 and 2 are pretty much equally teacher-intensive. (I did 1 A & B, and 2 B & C--two kids.) Because you're jumping in part-way, you might want to speak to RS about what level would be best for your daughter. Yes, Level D is expected this summer, so probably late-ish August. The only thing with that is that if she races through D, Level 2 E won't be out until next year, late August probably... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssavings Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 In 2nd grade, I pretty much assume all math to be teacher-intensive, honestly. Even with self-teaching workbooks, I tend to want to be involved to ensure they're actually understanding the ideas. So, I wouldn't necessarily let the fact that a program is teacher-intensive scare you away. We're using Singapore with BA on the side for my older DC. I think RS is a fine choice, if that appeals to you and your DC. :) I have the RS games, and we certainly have liked them for fluency and review. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnMomof7 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I'm not really sure what the main problem is? She's a bit bored? Honestly, I'd stick with CLE :). It's rock solid and it sounds like she can still use the practice. At 7, a solid foundation is a great gift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauphin Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 The first two of you who commented about 2nd grade math being teacher intensive, I'll agree. Even with using CLE, I've been sitting beside her as we go thru the math lessons. Most of the time it's just reminding her to slow down a little and read the new content, and then also adapting it heavily (skip this, do every other one of those, etc). I just thought I remembered complaints about RS being MORE intensive than other programs for this age. For the record, I went and looked at samples and the 2nd edition looks a lot more open and go....a lot like the formatting for Fractions, which I did with DD12. I'm not homeschooling JUST this child, I also have DD 12 who is going into 7th grade. I'm entering my third full year of HS'ing with older DD but I still feel like I'm getting my feet under me and fearing not having time to do everything I want to with both girls. As far as why to switch, boredom may be a part of it,but I mean she is really under-challenged on much of it. Perfect scores on all drills, quizzes, and tests, etc. But I think an even bigger problem is too.many.workbook (particularly for a child coming from a far more concrete materials-driven context). Too much the same. I think we could try to push through a little longer, but I have a far lower threshold for switching math than I would for something like LA based on several things but including past experiences with older DD who has proven to be math-advanced/gifted but tricky to find the right balance of challenge without too much frustration from being either too easy or too hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanDiegoMom Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 "fractions subtraction with borrowing (she doesn't have it down cold but gets the idea well enough to solve independently and correct mistakes) geometry (right angles, line segments vs lines, naming line segments) math terminology (factors, product) problem solving with money (although she can add coin values mentally) multiplication (not solid on all times tables, multiplying by 0)" My daughter did k-2 and then we started Beast Academy last fall. She had never heard of factors, did very poorly with money, had never done multiplication and only a smidgen of fractions. The only thing I had to do was supplement with some mental math at the beginning and we worked on subtraction with borrowing - we did this slowly for the first two weeks as she's started on Beast Academy. And then when we got to Multiplication I gave her extra review from Singapore- she just needed a little help solidifying. The other things just fell into place. By the time we got to Money, she just understood it better naturally- and time as well. She just needs maturing rather than extra help. Beast Academy 3 assumes no prior multiplication,fractions or factoring. No need to know those ahead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebot Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I too love Montessori. Maybe your bead cabinet can have a play date with my bead cabinet. I found that without other kids around (especially older) that Montessori at home just doesn't work for us. We are using RS and My DS enjoys it. I plug in Montessori demonstrations when they seem to fit (only because I have a lot of the materials). It is teacher intensive, but it's only about 20 minutes. Typically the games are done in the evening with dad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 So what does she not have mastery of yet? fractions subtraction with borrowing (she doesn't have it down cold but gets the idea well enough to solve independently and correct mistakes) geometry (right angles, line segments vs lines, naming line segments) math terminology (factors, product) problem solving with money (although she can add coin values mentally) multiplication (not solid on all times tables, multiplying by 0) she also missed calendar, measurement, and clock skills on the placement test but has quickly knocked those out in the first few LUs of CLE. Likely just a lack of exposure or review IMO. It is my intention to utilize BA, and I think she'd enjoy them but I'm not sure I'm comfortable using it stand-alone. Also, DD took the "Are you ready for BA" and while she answered enough questions to "pass," she required a fair amount of prompting/scaffolding. I'm not sure how OK that is... My two cents: in that list of topics, mastery of multi-digit subtraction would come first in a grade level sequence and that is where I'd focus efforts prior to BA. All the other topics will be covered later in much greater depth anyway (e.g. mastery of operations with fractions is, or was, the major focus of 5th gr). This topic will hopefully not be very difficult as your child's prior Montessori experience probably included a large emphasis on place value, the concept which underpins this topic. (If she left off prior to that emphasis, now would be an important time to throw some in.) My suggestion would be to work on that topic using whatever methods you prefer (e.g., pull the relevant lesson from CLE or MM or simply instruct on a white board and follow with some practice worksheets) as well as any other non-problem-solving topics for which you noticed shakiness on the BA placement test. Then start BA. If your intent is to use BA supplemented with another program, choose one for the spine rather than try to complete two full programs. If BA is to be the spine, decide specifically what you want to add to BA that isn't already there in light of your child's individual needs (e.g., practice, review, instruction on some random particular topics). Then decide how to fill that need without excessive duplication. Maybe you will decide that you can periodically add practice as you go along on topics (e.g. times tables) and add review on some regular schedule that fits your child's needs (e.g. once every week or two or brief daily review or every other day, whatever). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauphin Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 So I called RS today and their advice, if I was going to use RS, was to start with D. Upon reflection, DD gets multi-digit subtraction except for when a 0 is involved. I haven't attempted to correct her but as the lady at RS said today, it would probably be a pretty quick fix once I do; especially using concrete materials like the abacus, that illustrates why you have to go to the next place value up to borrow from :) Wapiti, in order to work that plan, that requires that I have a good handle on what DD does and does not yet know (and what she needs - how much review vs practice, etc.) - and I think that part of the appeal of CLE was that I didn't have to always be watching trying to gauge where she was at, I could count on them to cover all the bases. But I think I can do this now :). It was a lot harder when I pulled older DD out of private school in 4th grade (also following a few years in a Montessori setting) and she was more or less ready to tackle algebra conceptually but didn't necessarily have all the foundational skills - so what to cover, in what order, and how deeply? Oh it has been a journey. Here's the tricky thing that might influence which edition: RS2 D won't be out until August. I could live with that, but RS2 E isn't planned to be out until August 2016. So it leaves us in the lurch if DD blows through D, IF we want RS to be the spine. Now, we could do BA until E comes out, but that feels rather haphazard when it doesn't really HAVE to be. So the leaning, for me, is towards RS1. I just don't know yet which I would like to keep as a spine. I think I'd like a little more experience with both RS and BA before deciding.... Decisions, decisions..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauphin Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 I could also approach this kind of like others have BA's publication schedule - just go with it and fill in when I have to with other good stuff (in this case, perhaps BA and Zaccarro or Singapore CWP?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateingr Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Both RS (either edition) and Beast are great (and I love them both), so I don't think you can go wrong here. Maybe try sitting down with both and imagining you have to start teaching them tomorrow? Whichever you'd enjoy teaching more and would fit into your daily routine better is probably the best bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutingmom Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 We are using RS 1st edition, and I think it is great. It has had many happy users for years. Note that if you go 1st edition, you will need the transition lessons too. Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauphin Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 Update: I ordered D, 1st Edition. It should be here end of this week or beginning of next. I think DD will love it. Older DD found my Math Card Games book and decided to try and tutor DD7 and DD4 with it. LOL. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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