What do you use as an aid to working through the Illiad?

[Sharon in MD]

We are probably going to delve into The Illiad in about a week and I am getting a bit nervous about tackling it. I have rather unpleasant memories of plowing through The Odyssey when I was a high schooler so I thought I'd ask you all how you went about it.

 

What have you found to be the best way to tackle it? Is there any particular study guide that would be beneficial?

 

Thanks!

[Lori D.]

We used the Novel Unit study guide to The Iliad, but I thought it was only "okay". See it at: http://rainbowresource.com/product/Iliad+Teacher+Guide/006359/1220717485-616106 Perhaps it was only "okay" because we only got the teacher's manual; this also comes with a student pack and that might have had more in it.

 

I wished I had used the free online guide from Spark Notes. See it/download it at: http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/iliad/ We used the Spark Notes for doing Oedipus the King and Antigone, and the notes and analysis are quite meaty. Not much in the way of discussion questions, though.

 

If you do The Odyssey, *definitely* use the lit. guide from Garlic Press Publishers! It is fantastic! I wish they had one for The Iliad. See it at: http://rainbowresource.com/product/Odyssey+Literature+Teaching+Guide/007442/1220717485-616106

 

We read the Fagles translations and the study guides aloud together and discussed "in the moment" with 8th and a 9th grade boys. They really enjoyed both -- although I do have to say that The Iliad is quite a bit longer and all focused on battle, battle, battle, whereas The Odyssey was a more interesting adventure story and a man's quest to get home.

 

BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

[Moira in MA]

The Teaching Company has a 12 lecture course on the Iliad by Elizabeth Vandiver, she's great.

[LisaNY]

The Teaching Co. courses by Andiver are *excellent*! I highly recommend them.

 

We read through the Iliad & Odyssey ala WEM, watched the lectures, and made use of Sparknotes as needed.

[Sharon in MD]

I'm already kinda maxed out on video supplements for the course we are pursuing.

 

We are doing ancient history for a one semester course. I'm using Spielvogel as a spine text and heavily using TTC lectures. We will be watching and taking notes using all of the lectures from Origins of Great Ancient Civilizations (12 lectures) Ancient Greek Civilization (24 lectures) and History of Ancient Rome (48 lectures). I am also using the Cengage website student supplements for Spielvogel for additional exercises and research topics using infotrac.

 

I am trying to add in a bit of Ancient literature to include some of the following: Gilgamesh, The Iliad or The Odyssey, Homer; Aristophanes; The Histories, Herodotus; The Republic, Plato; The Lives of the Noble Greeks and Romans, Plutarch. Ds is almost finished with Gilgamesh and then we were going to move on to The Iliad as he said he was interested in reading it. I'm a bit worried that we are biting off more than we can manage. I know we don't have time in our schedule for a full Ancient Lit credit...but I don't want to just skip it either.....sigh.

 

So, perhaps my question should be also along the lines of what and how much to do....as well as how to do it.

 

any suggestions or hand holding would be great!

[Sharon in MD]

We're using Spark notes for Gilgamesh now too.

 

I'll be sure to check out those links.

 

Thanks a bunch!:D

[Lori D.]

I'm already kinda maxed out on video supplements for the course we are pursuing.

 

We are doing ancient history for a one semester course. I'm using Spielvogel as a spine text and heavily using TTC lectures. We will be watching and taking notes using all of the lectures from Origins of Great Ancient Civilizations (12 lectures) Ancient Greek Civilization (24 lectures) and History of Ancient Rome (48 lectures). I am also using the Cengage website student supplements for Spielvogel for additional exercises and research topics using infotrac.

 

I am trying to add in a bit of Ancient literature to include some of the following: Gilgamesh, The Iliad or The Odyssey, Homer; Aristophanes; The Histories, Herodotus; The Republic, Plato; The Lives of the Noble Greeks and Romans, Plutarch. Ds is almost finished with Gilgamesh and then we were going to move on to The Iliad as he said he was interested in reading it. I'm a bit worried that we are biting off more than we can manage. I know we don't have time in our schedule for a full Ancient Lit credit...but I don't want to just skip it either.....sigh.

 

So, perhaps my question should be also along the lines of what and how much to do....as well as how to do it.

 

any suggestions or hand holding would be great!

 

 

That is a LOT to cover in ONE semester! You do realize that your video lectures = 84 hours of classwork alone! That's a one-semester course right there, with no other writing, reading, discussing, etc. If you do want this as a one semester course, then I'd suggest cutting back to about 36 hours of video lectures, and either do just 2-3 ancient classics, or if you want wider exposure but don't mind not going deep: find a book with lots of excerpts/abridgements.

 

We did the ancients in a similar way last year with our 8th and 9th gr. boys, but it took us a whole year to cover the list below -- and in order to have ANY time for discussion (and to have time to write about the various works) we had to roll along at a pretty good clip. We did the reading/discussing aloud, so maybe your son will get through the works faster reading silently on his own.

 

We were also doing the Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings full year study guide, plus the boys each read (solo reading with no writing) about ONLY 6 historical fiction books (ancients) that were below their reading level. They picked 6 from the following list: Golden Goblet; God King; Shadow Hawk; Archimedes and the Door to Science; Galen and the Gateway to Medicine; Ides of April; Beyond the Desert Gate; The Bronze Bow; Eagle of the Ninth.

 

Anyways, below is what we covered for ancients, and about how long it took us. Hope something here helps! BEST of luck getting everything in!! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

- Spielvogel's Human Odyssey

(5-6 pages a week, 36 weeks)

We read only the first 200 pages, which was the on the ancients.

 

- various other non-fiction resources

(maybe 2 pages a week, 36 weeks)

 

- Epic of Gilgamesh (abridged version by Jennifer Westwood)

(4 weeks)

We used the SMARR guide, but it was pretty useless. Wish we'd used the Spark Notes free online guide.

 

- The Iliad (Fagles translation)

(12 weeks)

We used the Novel Unit lit. guide. It was okay.

 

- The Odyssey (Fagles translation)

(10 weeks)

We used the Garlic Press lit. guide. It was fantastic!

 

- various Greek myths

(2 weeks)

No lit guide; just read for interest and background on various Greek characters.

 

- Oediups the King

(2 weeks)

We used the free online Spark Notes lit. guide. Very meaty background info and analysis.

 

- Antigone

(2 weeks)

We used the free online Spark Notes lit. guide. Very meaty background info and analysis.

 

- The Aeneid for Boys and Girls (abridged, prose version by Alfred Church)

(3 weeks)

We used parts of the free online Spark Notes lit. guide. Very meaty background info and analysis.

[SusanAR]

We will finish Gilgamesh this week and begin the Iliad Thursday. I really enjoy the insight of Peter Leithart in 'Heroes of the City of Man'.

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Heroes-City-Man-Christian-Literature/dp/1885767552/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220743683&sr=8-1

 

 

It also includes chapters on The Odyssey, The Aeneid,

Sophocles trilogy and several others.

 

I own several GB study guides by Wes Callahan, but Leithart's book is much more in-depth.

 

Susan

[Janice H]

I have referred to this link often, posted by Kate in Seattle. I keep a copy in my history planning notebook.

 

http://wtmboards.com/HSboardFeb192007/messages/3002.html

 

Re: The Iliad: I would listen to the Fagles audio book which is abridged (gasp), and then read whatever version you like--Fagles, Lattimore, Fitzgerald, are the usual choices. If you can borrow a few from the library, see which one you like. The best version of the Iliad is the one you and dc will look forward to reading. Enjoy your discussions and puzzling over the text. Try not to kill it with too much vocabulary analysis, excessive map work, poetry meter study, or whatever you can remember that seems to have contributed to your suboptimal high school experience.

 

Among other resources, I used Cliffs Notes (both the pamphlet-sized one specifically for The Iliad as well as their thick paperback entitled Greek Classics which has overviews of the major histories, poems and plays of ancient Greece) and Who Killed Homer? as a guide to the important themes and the action in The Iliad. FWIW, the two authors of Who Killed Homer?, both classics professors, consider The Iliad the "more important" book when compared to The Odyssey.

 

I hope this experience with Homer will be rewarding for you and ds.

[love2read]

The Teaching Company's Iliad of Homer is outstanding.

[Sharon in MD]

the lectures are 30 minutes each...so not quite as long as you thought...but it IS still alot.

 

Which is why I've been asking for some advice on the lit side of things. I feel like the 42 hours of video plus the spielvogel reading leaves a little bit of wiggle room for some lit.....emphasis on little bit.

 

THanks for the commiseration and well wishes...as well as the advice and links!

[anissarobert]

Eliana,

 

Thanks for you information on translations. I am trying to figure out which to use for the great books class I am teaching. The philosophers are very familiar to me as I studied philosophy in college, but I am playing catch up with some on the poets and playwrights.

[Sharon in MD]

And commentary info! I will check and see which translation we have here at home vs our libraries.

 

What a wonderful and informative post!

[Sharon in MD]

Thank you for the helpful tips Janice! I may look into the abridged audio.....that might help.

 

I know we are up against too many titles and not enough hours in the day!

[Peela]

I did the Iliad with two 12 years olds and an 11year old, after reading LCC. I found this very useful:

http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1984/2/84.02.09.x.html

In particular I found it useful because it showed the most important chapters to cover.

We listened to an audio sometimes, although we all also took turns reading parts aloud. I did have the TC lectures by Vandiver, and we did listen to a few of them, but timewise, the Iliad is already so long, we didn't have time to do it all.

I also found these useful:

http://edsitement.neh.gov/lesson_images/lesson587/HeroCycle.pdf

http://www.learningtogive.org/lessons/unit141/lesson1.htm

 

One assignment I gave the kids was to write about a battle, or the battle, from the perspective of one of the characters. Both the boys chose Achilles. My dd wrote from the perspective of Andromache. It was very touching.

Since my kids were younger, and we were using a full length version, we read parts, I chose assignments appropriate to their age, and overall we all got a lot out of it.

[kate in seattle]

Logos School in Moscow, Idaho sells a guide to the Iliad, written by Trude Marston (one of the most engaging, humble teachers I have had the pleasure of meeting). It is basically a worksheet/assignment (but they are fun - draw the shield, do a storyboard of the chapter, etc.) for each book.

 

Kate in Seattle

 

I too believe the Lattimore translations are supposed to be some of the best (and hey, he WAS the Greek prof at my alma mater) but for those of us who can't compare it to the original Greek, I think the Fagles does a good job of being readable. which in the case of 9th grade boys, might be a strong argument.