Alessandra Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Usually I go to funerals, so not much wake experience. I would like to go, but I do not like open caskets. Does the family usually stand right near the casket? Or at the opposite end of the room? The wake is at a funeral home. Any tips on behavior would be appreciated. Also, dress advice. It is 16 degrees here, and there will probably be a walk from where I park. And it snowed again last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 First, is it really called a wake? I've never heard that term in EO circles. Since it's at the funeral home and not at the church it makes me wonder exactly what it is. I suspect there will be a short memorial service - probably the 20ish min. one. The casket may not be open (although the tradition in EO funerals is to have open caskets - so just be aware it's a possibility.). If it is open, there is usually a line after the service to go pay your respects to the reposed (we believe that since we were made in the image of God that the body is holy) and then pay your respect to the family (they will be next to the casket). You do not need to do this... you can wait until after the service is completely over and go speak with the family and pay your respects that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolatechip Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Also wondering about the term wake. I've never heard that term used either. Wondering if it is either a pannikhida (short memorial service) like Princess Mommy suggested, or a time when they read the Psalms over the reposed before going to the church for the funeral? Often someone is there continuously, but sometimes they might have a time when more people might come. ?? Not really sure. As far as dress goes, I'd dress warm. Usually people wear dark clothing. It doesn't need to be super formal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 As observed, not a "wake", but probably what is called in Greek Orthodox tradition a "Trisaghion" (for the Trisaghion, or "thrice holy" prayers), and in Slavic Orthodox tradition called a "pannykhida". Princess Mommy summed it up. The service normally is held in the church, because the open coffin normally is kept in the church (post-preparation of the body) until the funeral service itself. That this is in a funeral home makes me think that it may be for a family that attends a Greek Orthodox parish. (My experience of contemporary US Greek Orthodox practice is that they have shifted to the funeral home for whatever reasons.) The actual funeral probably is tomorrow. The only thing that I would add to Princess Mommy's post is that the priest might speak briefly after the prayers, sharing his personal memories of the departed. Dress as you would for any formal religious service, with emphasis on warmth, given your local weather! Memory Eternal for this departed soul! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Thank you for the replies. I double checked my email, and they did use the term 'wake.' It is from 2-4 pm and 7-9 pm. The funeral in the church is tomorrow. I did wonder about today though, because usually when people from that church die, the are in the church on the day before the funeral for people to come visit. 'Lie in repose' perhaps, but I am not sure. Orthodox6, you are right. It is Greek, religiously and ethnically. So it is different from OCA or whatever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Dp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Thank you for the replies. I double checked my email, and they did use the term 'wake.' It is from 2-4 pm and 7-9 pm. The funeral in the church is tomorrow. I did wonder about today though, because usually when people from that church die, the are in the church on the day before the funeral for people to come visit. 'Lie in repose' perhaps, but I am not sure. Orthodox6, you are right. It is Greek, religiously and ethnically. So it is different from OCA or whatever? Inquiring minds want to know.....You'll have to educate us Orthodox about what exactly this "service" is :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I think some Orthodox feel like the Greek Orthodox or maybe specifically the American Greek Orthodox aren't "Orthdox" enough. Not my expressed perspective. There are differences in practice, though, including the service about which OP enquired. It makes sense to distinguish between U.S. practice, with which I am familiar, and Greek and Cypriot practice, with which I am less so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Well, I know from attending an OCA church that, in Holy Week, services were anticipated, with Matins in the evening and Vespers in the morning. I was surprised when my Greek friends did not do this. Not saying one way was better, just different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I think some Orthodox feel like the Greek Orthodox or maybe specifically the American Greek Orthodox aren't "Orthdox" enough. That is the impression I have got from some of the comments not only here but on the Exploring Orthodoxy group as well. It reminds me of how some Protestant denominations consider Roman Catholics or other Protestant denominations that are different from theirs as not "Christian" enough or "real" Christians. I do apologize if this has been the case, IJF. I haven't seen it myself -- or maybe it's me that has done it!. If so, I do apologize. Some of us (self included) are from a very, very non-ethnically diverse area, especially when it comes to Orthodoxy. Not counting babies, we have maybe three cradle Orthodox in our parish; the other 98% is made up of those who have converted. I think I can say that it's not the purpose of the Exploring Orthodoxy group to differentiate between canonical Orthodox jurisdictions at all -- we're all Eastern Orthodox even though our path into the faith and practices may look different. If you have concerns, please do PM me (the group's moderator). I'm happy to listen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 There are two main typicons in the Orthodox Church, one that the Greeks follow and one that the Russians follow. They are pretty similar in most ways, but they describe different practices The different jurisdictions follow one or the other. Regardless of which one is followed by any particular jurisdiction, they are both *wholly* Orthodox. The typicons were written descriptively based on practices in the Church at the time they were written. Typicon: is a book of directives and rubrics that establishes in the Orthodox Christian Church the order of divine services for each day of the year. It assumes the existence of liturgical books that contain the fixed and variable parts of these services. In monastic usage, the typikon of the monastery includes both the rule of life of the community and the rule of prayer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 There are two main typicons in the Orthodox Church, one that the Greeks follow and one that the Russians follow. They are pretty similar in most ways, but they describe different practices The different jurisdictions follow one or the other. Regardless of which one is followed by any particular jurisdiction, they are both *wholly* Orthodox. The typicons were written descriptively based on practices in the Church at the time they were written. Typicon: is a book of directives and rubrics that establishes in the Orthodox Christian Church the order of divine services for each day of the year. It assumes the existence of liturgical books that contain the fixed and variable parts of these services. In monastic usage, the typikon of the monastery includes both the rule of life of the community and the rule of prayer. I had not realized that there were two strands of liturgy. Are the services different for special seasons or just in ordinary time? I have some liturgical books -- the Lenten Triodion is my favorite -- that I got from St Vladimir's Seminary, which is reasonably near us. My Greek friends look a little blank when I mention St Andrew of Crete, the l o n g service in Lent. Do they not have that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolatechip Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I think some Orthodox feel like the Greek Orthodox or maybe specifically the American Greek Orthodox aren't "Orthdox" enough. That is the impression I have got from some of the comments not only here but on the Exploring Orthodoxy group as well. It reminds me of how some Protestant denominations consider Roman Catholics or other Protestant denominations that are different from theirs as not "Christian" enough or "real" Christians. I think that it is less an idea that the American Greek Orthodox "aren't Orthodox enough," but rather that they simply have some very distinguishing ethnic/cultural practices (even beyond the Typicon), and people just want to understand the ethnic/cultural context of a situation, and seek to figure out what traditions (small 't') we're dealing with based on the distinguishing customs. Slavic jurisdictions also have their own set of distinguishing practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Oh dear, Alessandra, I don't know about the Greek church you visited, but the Holy Week services are done the exact same way as the OCA/Russian-- the morning ones in the evening, etc. It may have been that that particular priest had to move a service for some local parish reason, but ordinarily they are exactly the same. [Having spent 10 years in OCA and 13 with the Greeks and helping chant/sing for many years, I feel I can answer this!] About the funeral, the only thing that is new for me is the 2-4 pm time slot. I'm not sure what exactly is happening there. Also I've never heard it called a 'wake' among Orthodox, but perhaps this family is of mixed background, or perhaps they are labeling it that way to try to explain to other people? In the evening, the service will be a Trisagion, a short service. There may be speeches afterward, or there may not. There may even be slides shown of the person's life. I am used to going to these services in a funeral home. The person's body will likely be in an open casket. Usually the family will be seated in chairs in the front. After the service is over we go up to the casket and take a last look at the person. Sometimes we may kiss them or make the sign of the cross and bow. It is not obligatory. Then we greet the family. You can say something to them or you can just hug them. Then usually there is some dry snacks to eat and wine and people chat. Sometimes they stay a long time and it is more like a party, and sometimes people just filter away more quickly. I dress in black and modestly for these. About 'looking down' on Greeks-- the Russians/OCA are more known for attention to liturgical tradition, and the Greeks made some changes around 1900 that make others think that they are omitting things (for example, OCA has the Beatitudes chanted during the Liturgy, Greeks don't). Each ethnicity has its strong point, and IMO for the Russian strain it is love for beauty and appreciation of suffering, whereas for the Greeks it's hospitality. Both are good. This looking down is really not a good thing, and a problem, and I fell into it myself when I came into the Greek community (by marriage) before I learned to love the Greeks just as much. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 OK, now, catching up to the thread. Greeks do not do the canon of St Andrew as often, in the parishes, no. On the other hand, Greeks will likely know the hymn of Kassiani which is chanted at great length on (I think) Holy Tuesday, but in OCA usage it is chanted no differently than the rest of the hymns/prayers and goes by in a flash! Alessandra, I believe you when you say that your Greek friends did Holy Week a certain way, but I can tell you that that is extremely unusual-- I'm saying this not just based on my personal experience, but on what we were taught at the Greek seminary in Liturgical Theology class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Little Nyssa, I did not know that about the Greeks and the Canon. So there I go, learning something new again. :0) A humorous little story here: when I was newly (or not quite yet) Orthodox, a friend who had been Orthodox for 20 years at that time took me to a service at a parish that was from a different jurisdiction than our own. She prepped me all the way there to not be too surprised at the major, major differences I would see in the practices, and not to be disturbed by them. We went to the Sunday Divine LIturgy, and I was completely puzzled as to what she was talking about--it seemed very similar to me, maybe with different tunes but the same words of the hymns, and so on. I figured that maybe something had changed since she had been there last. When we left, she whispered (quite dramatically) in my ear, "Wasn't that DIFFERENT?" Ummm. Nope. I still have no idea what she was talking about, except that I think that the recitation/non-recitation of the Beatitudes might have been part of it. Anyway, I will be interested to hear what the "wake" was--I've never heard that term used to describe a service of prayer. It's always been more about a party in honor of the reposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 OK, now, catching up to the thread. Greeks do not do the canon of St Andrew as often, in the parishes, no. On the other hand, Greeks will likely know the hymn of Kassiani which is chanted at great length on (I think) Holy Tuesday, but in OCA usage it is chanted no differently than the rest of the hymns/prayers and goes by in a flash! Alessandra, I believe you when you say that your Greek friends did Holy Week a certain way, but I can tell you that that is extremely unusual-- I'm saying this not just based on my personal experience, but on what we were taught at the Greek seminary in Liturgical Theology class. Nyssa, the different schedule was something I remembered from so long ago. If it is indeed extremely unusual, I may have misremembered it. But, out of curiosity, I will check website of a local church when they have the schedule. In any case, my experience with the Greek church has been mainly having Greek friends, but only going to a very occasional service, just a few in my lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 How I miss the Hymn of St. Kassiani! It generally took me at least five minutes to sing it when I was in an Antiochian parish. In recordings (sung in Greek) it can be even longer. In OCA parishes, the choir scoots through it in maybe thirty seconds. I also miss the Akathistos, which Greek parishes chant on the Friday evenings of Lent (at which time Slavs are offering the Presanctified). Where we live now, OCA parishioners long ago lobbied the bishop to approve the service for the sacrament of Holy Unction on Holy Wednesday, as is the Greek practice. The result is a very long Wednesday evening, with a "double service" (Bridegroom service followed by Holy Unction), but everyone is happy, and the turnout is high. Your observation, Little Nyssa, about the Beatitudes brings up something interesting. On a "regular" Sunday, Slavic Orthodox do not sing the "Only Begotten. . ." And the "Through the Prayers of . . . " hymns (as do Greeks). On festal Sundays, the two groups exchange places, so as to speak. Greeks sing the Beatitudes, and Slavs sing the First and Second Antiphons (the two hymns referenced). I never took the time to learn why this is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolatechip Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (snip) Where we live now, OCA parishioners long ago lobbied the bishop to approve the service for the sacrament of Holy Unction on Holy Wednesday, as is the Greek practice. The result is a very long Wednesday evening, with a "double service" (Bridegroom service followed by Holy Unction), but everyone is happy, and the turnout is high. Your observation, Little Nyssa, about the Beatitudes brings up something interesting. On a "regular" Sunday, Slavic Orthodox do not sing the "Only Begotten. . ." And the "Through the Prayers of . . . " hymns (as do Greeks). On festal Sundays, the two groups exchange places, so as to speak. Greeks sing the Beatitudes, and Slavs sing the First and Second Antiphons (the two hymns referenced). I never took the time to learn why this is. Hmm, I guess we must be very unusual Slavic Orthodox. . . We have the Holy Unction service after the Presanctified on Holy Wednesday. When is the Unction service usually in Slavic practice? We also always sing Only Begotten Son. I can't think of a single time that we don't sing it, festal, regular Sunday, everyday liturgy, everything. I do find the swap between everyday antiphons and festal antiphons in Greek and Slavic practice interesting and a little puzzling. The one difference is that while the Greeks (that I've seen) chant the verse between the refrains ("Through the prayers of the Theotokos. . ." and "O Son of God. . ." 1st and 2nd antiphons, respectively) while Slavs sing both the verses and refrains. We sing the long Psalm antiphons on a regular Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 You guys all must be much more detail-oriented than I. Or else going back and forth between Greek and English seemingly randomly messes me up. I could not tell you what we do or don't do at any given service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 haha-- sometimes I think it's best just to let the service wash over you and forget the details! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I use a service book which helps a lot; it's an option that could help (if it's even a desire; it might not be). Holding and looking at one also helps me concentrate/be mindful sometimes. But I know a lot of people don't want to be fussing with a book. It'll vary by person. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 ...and it makes a difference if you have a dh who is a liturgy geek. I can't tell you the number of times I have stopped myself from asking a question about the liturgy because the detailed explanation will kill me. The priest who catechized us did a great job of explaining all of this, as well, and I appreciate that a lot. I started as a "gotta have the service book" kinda gal and have become more of a "let it happen" kind of girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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