Hunter Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Wayfarers suggests the composer Monteverdi in term 1 of year 1. I'm not enjoying listening to this music. Help me enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Hunter, I say you tell Wayfarers (don't know who they are) to find you a composer you do like! :) Seriously, if something isn't your cup of tea, there is no point of forcing it. Move on to a more enjoyable music. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 I struggle with music as a whole, not even just classical music. I spent a large part of my life in churches with very restrictive rules on music, and just...isolated in general, and not encouraged to be an individual and have personal tastes or to seek pleasure. Music is a bit of a mess. I just need help, especially when I get to this lofty stuff. Okay, so after a little more research Monteverdi wrote opera. This isn't just classical music? I guess I need to study Opera, before I can appreciate Monteverdi. I've made more progress with overviews of folk music and overviews of American Popular music. I'm trying to tackle the loftier bits, now. Monteverdi is on the list, so...it's as good a place to start as any, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Are there any free retellings of Orfeo for kids? Something like Lamb's Shakespeare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I don't know, but for a more serious attempt at learning how to understand music, go for the Great Courses. http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/how-to-listen-to-and-understand-great-music-3rd-edition.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 This youtube video seems better than the audio I first started with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainbird2 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I don't know, but for a more serious attempt at learning how to understand music, go for the Great Courses. http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/how-to-listen-to-and-understand-great-music-3rd-edition.html I was going to recommend this! And, you can get it for free if you don't have an Audible account yet. Do a free trial at Audible and get the above course. No guidebook needed for this one. I listened to it over the summer and really enjoyed it. Some parts are kind of snoozy...it's OK to daydream during those parts. :) Also, I enjoyed this TED talk by Michael Tilson Thoms of the SF Symphony: http://blog.ted.com/2012/02/28/a-brief-history-of-classical-music-michael-tilson-thomas-at-ted2012/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesje22000 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Are there any free retellings of Orfeo for kids? Something like Lamb's Shakespeare? This is a beautiful book, but it doesn't cover Orfeo: http://www.amazon.com/At-Opera-Ann-Fiery/dp/0811827747/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1421306619&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=Opera+Fiery I'm not a specialist in Opera but I wonder if Orfeo is a good place to start. Monteverdi is 'the first' opera componist, with the first opera aria I know, but In dutch we have children opera's in dutch, shortened to one hour, with the main aria's and the same story. That is what we used when we introduced carmen to dd. She knows the short version, read the book, and now we will visit one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelenNotOfTroy Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Honestly, you don't have to like it. I think that just listening to it for exposure is the first goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Try . (But ignore the score, as it's not actually in the key she is singing in.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Honestly, you don't have to like it. I think that just listening to it for exposure is the first goal. There is only level one/Ancients so far, but it looks like Wayfarers intends to introduce a student to 36 composers over their education. I am happy to be exposed to things I don't like. I know there are people that DO like this, so I figured maybe someone that DOES, might be able to link me to a little something meant for kids or newbies. Wayfarers is meant to be used multiple times. There are 3 composers listed, with just one to be used with each rotation. Year 1, term 1 composers are Monteverdi, Pachelbel, Vivaldi. I think the list might be in alphabetical order rather than suggested order. I'm thinking maybe Vivaldi would be a developmentally better choice for grammar/logic stage and that I should leave Monteverdi for rhetoric stage? If I did stick with Monteverdi, I think I should branch out to some developmentally appropriate books on opera? I saw the checklist, chose the first option, clicked on music written by him, and figured it was just going to be like times in the past, where I was instructed to expose myself to Bach. What I heard was even a bit more lofty than Bach, and I just did what I always do, as my first course of action, when I realize I'm in over my head. I consult the hive. :D I know I need to deal with my music issues in GENERAL, but being linked up with PTSD and with SO many years to make up for, that just isn't going to happen overnight. I sometimes find it easier to chip away at the problem by just following what it written in whatever curriculum I'm using. So I know I need a Great Courses type thing and have looked at and sometimes done a few lessons of things like that. For term 1 though, I just want to do one of the Wayfarers suggestions. Should I jump ship and do Vivaldi instead? If I stick with Monteverdi, should I teach opera more than the composer himself? I just want to deal with some EXPOSURE for term 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I struggle with music as a whole, not even just classical music. I spent a large part of my life in churches with very restrictive rules on music, and just...isolated in general, and not encouraged to be an individual and have personal tastes or to seek pleasure. Music is a bit of a mess. I just need help, especially when I get to this lofty stuff. Okay, so after a little more research Monteverdi wrote opera. This isn't just classical music? I guess I need to study Opera, before I can appreciate Monteverdi. Not sure what you mean by "this isn't just classical music?" The music commonly considered "classical" in the broader sense does include opera. For a great introduction to music, I can highly recommend Robert Greenberg's TC course How to listen to and understand great music". This said: classical music is a HUGE field, and having an appreciation for classical music does not mean liking every single composer or even music from every period. Some music enthusiasts love the Vienna classics and the Romantics but do not care for old music. I would not recommend beginning the study of a later Renaissance/early Baroque composer with his operas. I love renaissance and Baroque music, but find the operas often very repetetive and long winded, not like the fast paced emotional Verdi or Puccini operas. To develop familiarity, you might want to start with shorter works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 There are 3 composers listed, with just one to be used with each rotation. Year 1, term 1 composers are Monteverdi, Pachelbel, Vivaldi. I think the list might be in alphabetical order rather than suggested order. I'm thinking maybe Vivaldi would be a developmentally better choice for grammar/logic stage and that I should leave Monteverdi for rhetoric stage? If I did stick with Monteverdi, I think I should branch out to some developmentally appropriate books on opera? I saw the checklist, chose the first option, clicked on music written by him, and figured it was just going to be like times in the past, where I was instructed to expose myself to Bach. What I heard was even a bit more lofty than Bach, and I just did what I always do, as my first course of action, when I realize I'm in over my head. ... Should I jump ship and do Vivaldi instead? If I stick with Monteverdi, should I teach opera more than the composer himself? I just want to deal with some EXPOSURE for term 1. Absolutely try Vivaldi! I recommend starting with the Four Seasons. Find a book or website that explains what to listen for - this is very easy music, as it is very much tone painting, and you are supposed to hear the summer thunderstorm and stuff like this. Great music for kids. Monteverdi is not more "lofty" than Bach - he's simply one hundred years older, and his music reflects the transition from the Renaissance music. I do not think that reading up on opera will make you like Monteverdi - go listen to music for right now that you find more enjoyable and come back to older music later. ETA: For developing music appreciation in children, I would never go chronologically, but select the most approachable pieces from all periods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Absolutely try Vivaldi! I recommend starting with the Four Seasons. Find a book or website that explains what to listen for - this is very easy music, as it is very much tone painting, and you are supposed to hear the summer thunderstorm and stuff like this. Great music for kids. Monteverdi is not more "lofty" than Bach - he's simply one hundred years older, and his music reflects the transition from the Renaissance music. I do not think that reading up on opera will make you like Monteverdi - go listen to music for right now that you find more enjoyable and come back to older music later. ETA: For developing music appreciation in children, I would never go chronologically, but select the most approachable pieces from all periods. There is this nice free lesson plan for Vivaldi, and I know I can easily find other stuff, easily. http://www.artsalive.ca/pdf/mus/tour2004/vivaldi2004_en.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 There is this nice free lesson plan for Vivaldi, and I know I can easily find other stuff, easily. http://www.artsalive.ca/pdf/mus/tour2004/vivaldi2004_en.pdf This looks great! The stuff on p. 10 and 11 is what I was talking about. Try this, and see if you can appreciate his music. Vivaldi has less theoretical structure and may be more approachable than Bach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 One of my goals for classical music instruction, is just...forming a personal relationship with something that others also have a relationship with. Most of my tutoring students are trauma victims and have severe mental illnesses. Some of them are not just chronically homeless, but couch hop all over the east coast, riding the China Town buses from city to city, living out of their backpacks. They have cell phones and call me from whatever city they are in, and I often link them to a book or some music or something that tethers them a bit. I guess the idea of exposure to 36 composers, sounds grounding. That despite not having a family or a home, that students can become familiar with 36 composers, and when they hear music by them, can feel a bit more connected. And by establishing a composer of the term, that anyone that works with me, we are all listening to the same composer, no matter what level of academics they are working on. I had one student that insisted on spending 45 minutes doing a geometry problem 2 other more advanced students were working on, just because she wanted to be included. The longer I tutor this group, it's becoming less and less about mastering of skills or doing it right, but more about rhythms and grounding and being included and exposed. I'm thinking more and more that I should do Vivaldi this term. But I'm still interested in ideas for Monteverdi, as I'll be getting to him eventually, and also, once I start something it's hard to let go and do something else. I kinda have Monteverdi on the brain, now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I'm thinking more and more that I should do Vivaldi this term. But I'm still interested in ideas for Monteverdi, as I'll be getting to him eventually, and also, once I start something it's hard to let go and do something else. I kinda have Monteverdi on the brain, now. If you insist on Monteverdi, I would select some of his Madrigals. (Read up on madrigals, they're a lot of fun.) Bonus: they are short. Much more approachable than his operas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 This looks great! The stuff on p. 10 and 11 is what I was talking about. Try this, and see if you can appreciate his music. Vivaldi has less theoretical structure and may be more approachable than Bach. It's okay for me not to like or appreciate this. I just want it to be accessible and palatable to students that are still functioning at a grammar stage level. And that we can all recognize a few pieces of music, maybe years later. I've been working with some students long enough that they call me and say, "Remember when we studied ... . Today, ... happened and it reminded me of ... ." These moments seem very important to them. I'm probably not making sense and my goals probably sound weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 If you insist on Monteverdi, I would select some of his Madrigals. (Read up on madrigals, they're a lot of fun.) Bonus: they are short. Much more approachable than his operas. Thanks. I will do that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 It's okay for me not to like or appreciate this. I just want it to be accessible and palatable to students that are still functioning at a grammar stage level. And that we can all recognize a few pieces of music, maybe years later. I've been working with some students long enough that they call me and say, "Remember when we studied ... . Today, ... happened and it reminded me of ... ." These moments seem very important to them. I'm probably not making sense and my goals probably sound weird. Makes perfect sense - and I think familiarity with individual works may be an even better goal for your target group than familiarity with a composer. Students like yours may find it easy to relate to music that tells a clear story. I would look at music like Prokofjev's Peter and the Wolf (a fantastic introduction to the individual instruments and very relatable even for 5 y/o), Mussorgski's Pictures of an Exhibition, Smetana's Vlatava (which describes the course of a river from spring to thundering stream through capital city). These show students that music can be more than just pleasant sound and can tell stories, carry messages. I find this the easiest introduction into classical music, before exploring less accessible music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 This looks good to me. http://www.pianolessons4children.com/composers/vivaldi.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I love music deeply. My dh and I stopped counting our CD collection at 1000, literally. One of our biggest heartbreaks was when Tower Records closed and we could no longer spend the day browsing the classical music room and wondering how to pay for it all. One of our biggest dreams is to some day go to Japan, to one of only two remaining Tower Records stores, and have that experience one more time. Neither of us are professional musicians or have degrees in music. I say all of this by way of telling you that my opinions come not as an expert of any kind, but as someone who really likes music. My dh and I have had a bit of fun texting back and forth about what would be a good place to start with Monteverdi. We both agree that opera is probably the worst place to start. And not just Monteverdi, but any composer. If you are going to listen to opera music, you should watch the opera, and it needs to have a translation. Imagine listening to, but not watching, Phantom of the Opera. Then further imagine that you don't speak English. That's what listening to operas that you aren't familiar with is like. I don't see how anyone could get beside that. My dh and I disagree on what are better introductions to Monteverdi. Personally, I like the his Vespers. Beautiful, awsome stuff. Here is a link where you can listen to some samples: http://www.amazon.com/Monteverdi-Vespro-della-Beata-Vergine/dp/B000031WJB/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1421342961&sr=8-3&keywords=monteverdi+vespers My dh thinks that madrigals are more approachable. Here's another link for those: http://www.amazon.com/Monteverdi-Madrigals-Rooley-Consort-Musicke/dp/B0000042HQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1421344600&sr=1-1&keywords=monteverdi+madrigals In any case, I think listening to a new kind of music is like introducing yourself to Shakespeare. Keep trying different things; just like there are lots of different types of Shakespeare plays and writings, there are TONS of different types of classical music. You CAN read Shakespeare by just getting a book and reading through the play, but watching a production is so much more.When practical, try to listen to the music the way it was meant to be listened to (big pieces of music are meant to be loud, some are meant to be quiet, etc....you can make a pretty good guess by reading about what the piece was written for: church, celebration, coronation, parlor, etc). Finally, give yourself some time just to become familiar with it. Don't even think about whether you like it or not. Just like you have to listen to Shakespeare for a while to get what is being said, you have to listen to classical music for a while to get your ear accustomed to it. Just let it wash over you. In a while, you'll start to hear more things than you thought were there, and you will start to distinguish between what you like and what you don't. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodlebug Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 FWIW, I'm a musician and I don't like listening to Orfeo! ;) But to be fair, opera is meant to be seen. Just as the plays of Shakespeare were written to be seen, not read. Listening/reading those forms outside of their original context isn't exactly exciting. Orfeo is important because it's the oldest surviving opera. And, opera played a pivotal roll in the development of other musical forms. But I wouldn't get that listening to Monteverdi... ;) He's buried in my Norton Anthology CD collection at the bottom of an armoire. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Seeing Orfeo made a lot more sense, than when I just listened. I didn't even know it was an Opera. I just knew it wasn't like what I'd been asked to listed to before. I'm glad I have 4 or 8 years to get ready for Monteverdi. One of the nicest things about family style curriculum is being able to look ahead and having time to prepare. I'll add learning about Vespers to the list. Thank you everyone. When I ask questions like this, I never know what to expect for a response, but I know I'll learn interesting and useful things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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